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[JimiD]

I am finally getting my economy under control again. A mass build of Financial Centres, and cutting down research and shipbuilding has stabilized things. I still can't build and improve shipyards yet, but at least the factories and labs are running.

A little feedback in colonies use for generating cash flow:

a small amount of infrastructure and pop generates a colony with it's own demands, for more infrastructure and other trade goods. The civ shipong lines will then supply goods to meet this demand, from their own sources, not from the infrastructure you have made.  This sets up a cycle where the colony gets bigger, so needs more goods, so it can then grow, so it gets bigger. And the civ shipping lines do all of this by themselves, without cost to the player*.

So my pop is expanding, by 10% on these colonies rather than 2% on Earth. And the real bonus? Every trip they make, they pay tax.


*I don't know if minerals are used create the civ infrastructure, and if they come from the civ mining colonies, or thin air. I don't know whether the civ ships take fuel from my supply at Earth.

I also don't know if a colony on Titan, cost 7, is better then a colony on Venus, cost 15?, because if the travel distances/ time involved; I want as many taxable trips per month as possible. 

[MrWiggles]

It seems civs generator things out of then air it seems.

And minerals gather into a black hole, unless you buy it.

[Areyar]

I suspect the tug - outtafuel ship problem was due to the ship still having a task it was trying to complete but couldnt without fuel. And/or had its speed set above 1.
Those are the predictable bugs I can see there.

Tugs for fuel rescue are indeed silly, like using a tank to save a horse from a ditch, a tanker suffices. Use tugs for stuff that has no engines (due to accident, battle or by design).

---

Not sure about the asteroid miners. They sound super cool, but require a big investment for little gain, as you said Micro.
I suppose they will be fairly effective with level1 accessabilities and would require less micromanagement than cargo/mines system.
Havent had cause to build any yet, besides roleplaying.

maybe comets/asteroids will eventually not allow mines anymore, that would be a good suggestion.

[Empty]

I am finally getting my economy under control again. A mass build of Financial Centres, and cutting down research and shipbuilding has stabilized things. I still can't build and improve shipyards yet, but at least the factories and labs are running.

A little feedback in colonies use for generating cash flow:

a small amount of infrastructure and pop generates a colony with it's own demands, for more infrastructure and other trade goods. The civ shipong lines will then supply goods to meet this demand, from their own sources, not from the infrastructure you have made.  This sets up a cycle where the colony gets bigger, so needs more goods, so it can then grow, so it gets bigger. And the civ shipping lines do all of this by themselves, without cost to the player*.

So my pop is expanding, by 10% on these colonies rather than 2% on Earth. And the real bonus? Every trip they make, they pay tax.


*I don't know if minerals are used create the civ infrastructure, and if they come from the civ mining colonies, or thin air. I don't know whether the civ ships take fuel from my supply at Earth.

I also don't know if a colony on Titan, cost 7, is better then a colony on Venus, cost 15?, because if the travel distances/ time involved; I want as many taxable trips per month as possible. 

10% of 1m is 100000
2% of 500-100m is?

What is better?

[JimiD]

My understanding, and from a brief check of the costs of my asteroid miner it holds, is that Mines are cheaper than Asteroid Miners, but Automatic Mines are more expensive than a basic Asteriod Miner.

So they have their role, just as long as they are slow and unarmoured.

I have the six I built for RP/sht and giggles, and even though I see the logic above, I am resistant to build more, as I have no problem hauling the auto mines around.

It gets more tricky with the Terraformers vs the Terraformer modules, as the ships seem a tad more expensive.  Perhaps I have too many engines on them? (I would be very surprised!).  They might also go better value if can put more than 2 modules per ship, so you only have the overhead of engines once.  I cant build bigger than two, so I will have to look into this.

Administrator / ship's captain bonuses also play a part.  If you have a good Civ Admin who can provide a 30% mining bonus to your asteriod, then automines might be good.  I dont have enough spare Civ admins, but I have some Naval officers with the bonus, which means I take advantage of that on each ship.

This stacks up, I have 27 mining modules and 29.7 equivilent orbital mines (less than 10%so not so great, but I am generally short Officers atm), but on the Terraformers I have 6 modules and 7.4ish equivilent.  Which is nice.  Although I also have a reasonably high Terraforming bonus Civ admin too.  So in this case its a toss up.

[JimiD]

10% of 1m is 100000
2% of 500-100m is?

What is better?

Not as simple as that.

Its not the choice between.
10% of 1m is 0.1 or
2% of 500m is 10m

Its either

2% of 500m is 10m

OR

2% of 499m is 9.98m and
10% of 1m is 0.1m

Total 10.08m, which brings me out ahead, but nearly a whole 1% (0.8%)!

Just.  I am basically getting the 10% growth on the small amount of popultion in small colonies, while the rest sits at 2%.  I have 4 colonies now, about 5mill in total, so that might be 4% more, per year (5 x 0.8% = 4%)

Its not great, but I come from a history of Civ, and have 'turn advantage' ingrained into me.  I think 4% for the next 10 years will then add up to 48%? (1.04*1.04*1.04 etc)

[Shades]

Can you not ship out even more of your population to the colonies? and thereby reducing the overcrowding on earth and so increasing it's growth rate too?

[JimiD]

Absolutely.

There comes a point where a colonies growth rate starts falling, as the population rises. So you need to keep generating more starter colonies.

The point was, for a small investment, the civ shipping lines do the rest, and pay taxes for the pleasure of doing so.

It does generate more things to defend and police if course.

[Shades]

I really have to try playing this game again, it sounds pretty much exactly what I like playing but each time I try and look at all the options everywhere and have no idea where to start so stop

[Areyar]

terraform modules take no pop to run, just the recruits.
Plus, as you pointed out, you can take advantage of the terraform bonus of your officer.
...I wonder, does the bonus of a planetary governor work on orbiting ships as well, is this cumulative? Are the bonusses of the group Comander + Staff?

You could put Terraform modules on PDCs? Yes. You. Can. (I checked)
That would relieve your population to work in the factories, but they will be hell to move around, even compared to TF installation components. A orbital TF-base would be towable and only requires an additional maintenance space...oh yeah, and they require shipyard to build.

TF installation : costs pop. transported as cargo. initial construction requires industry or engineers. [300Du/300Bo/600BP]
TF orbital: needs (big) shipyard for construction, can be towed by tug. [348Du/5Co/250Bo/10Me/613BP]
TF ship: needs (big) shipyard for construction, use expensive engines to move. [same as orbital + engine cost]
TF PDC: cannot be moved once constructed, moved as prefab (11sections), construction requires industry or engineers. [337.4Du/5Co/250Bo/10Me/602.4BP]

[Greiger]

Hm maybe I should put more harvesters on my tanker then.  It only has 4.

As for using the tug for ships out of fuel, it's because everything else is doing something.  The tug is closer than the tanker most of the time and about 6x as fast.  And the tanker is sitting around it's crummy sorium source anyway, while the tug crew is just sitting in orbit around the new colony waiting for somebody to break down and give their lives meaning.

[Zangi]

Or it can be easier and just make 'rescue' tankers...  no hassle of dragging all the way back then coming all the way back out.

It seems the Tug's life still has no meaning unless you put some effort into it...  Maybe after a battle with a few destroyed engines and a surviving ship or two....  You may yet have your chance there Mr. Tug.

[Areyar]

I wish I had a tug.

One of my ships broke its engine during training and did not have enough supplies onboard to make immediate repairs, now it just sits there in it's own taskforce named "help me!".
Researching the pully thing asap before it runs out of air.

My planned assault on "Nextdoor" will likely only lead to exploded ships.

Hmm. How big is a tractor?
It might be an idea to fit these to supplyvessels.

edit: give your tug meaning by designing a cloudcity sorium refinery. (eg. withou engines)

[JimiD]

Regarding civ admn bonuses and terrafirm ships: My instinct is that the civ admin bonus won't apply to the ship: that is what the captains and task force bonuses are for. I expect the sector bonus only applies to the planet based instalations too, but again I have no evidence for this.

On a counter argument, the environment tab lists accross the top, the number of ground based installations, the number of orbital modules AND THE EQUIVILENT MODULES DUE TO COMMANDER BONUSES, and then a total ATM change per year. Now why aren't the ground based installation modified at this stage? Is the annual ATM the total equivilent installations, times the base ATM rate, times the civ admin bonus? Or is it added in a hidden manner to only the ground based installations?

I will see if I can work it out tonight, or I will just ask on the main boards.
 

[Empty]

Terraforming ships are more efficient and handy in the long run then installations is what I have figured out.