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Author Topic: Bad game design  (Read 17408 times)

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2009, 04:34:50 am »

The monster themselves don't level but they get replaced by a stronger monster type. Once I remember clearing out a cave of zombies, after I rested it was full of ice monsters.

Very rarely happens. As far as I remember the only levelled monster entites are placed fairly periodically in the outside areas, never inside. The chance of monsters respawning in any interior is slim, as few interiors actually have respawning monsters, and they'd always be the same even if they did (as they're not levelled entities).
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kuro_suna

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2009, 04:49:57 am »

After a quick look online it seems even the most recent official patch has a bug where as you increase mercantile skill it makes shop keeps charge less but also play less when you try to sell stuff.
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Blaze

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2009, 05:14:25 am »

Fortify Personality by 2000 pts for 2 seconds on self.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2009, 05:22:15 am »

I liked them odd physical quirks more. Fortify speed by 2000 points, Fortify Acrobatics by 2000 points...

Then again the alchemy is one of the more broken things in Morrowind. One speed run featured rapidly gaining cash with a trade bug induced by buying off Intelligence-boosting implements and crafting increasingly powerful potions of Fortify Intelligence to... buy more Intelligence-boosting implement and craft even more powerful Intelligence-boosting potions... ad nauseum until it was possible to make a ridiculously powerful potion of levitation that allowed you to fly around the island like Iron Man. Which is then used to sequence-break and complete the final objective in about 20 minutes total, IIRC.
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2009, 11:25:10 am »

Final Fantasy games lately have a completion amount. That is, you have to do every little thing and if you do you get a special bonus.

But they have arbitrary and stupid things that count. And if you get it wrong you can't go back and fix it. You have to just start over.

It's become less a "100% complete" reward and more of a "bought the guide and followed it slavishly instead of enjoying the game" reward.

That and the non sequitur puzzles and such. You really just don't know what the heck is going on until you've done it wrong.

Then of course the "rifle farmers' houses for Potions and Elixirs" gameplay, shockingly linear story, and a few others.

What is truly amazing is that despite all this, Final Fantasy games are still very good. I think that says more about the other games you compare it to though. They're really slacking.
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Sergius

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2009, 11:50:56 am »

A truly broken bartering system is one where you end up selling things for more than they cost you. At the same merchant. Over and over.

I think there's a couple of games with that problem but can't remember which ones.

Morrowind's barter skill should (in a non-bugged version) always have a "default" price for everything (let's say 100 for a potion). With a low skill, merchants want to sell it to you for 150, and want to buy it from you at 50. The higher the skill, the closest both values come to 100, but best case scenario, it costs the same for both. When the values swap around, the mechanic is really broken.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2009, 11:54:18 am »

If you can convince the merchant that he should buy an item for more than it's actually worth, or sell it to you for less than its actual worth, and you siphon too much money from him in this way, he should eventually get angry and refuse to deal with you anymore.

And I don't mean until you raise his disposition back to maximum by bribing him with 10 GP over and over. I mean he now hates you and he won't let himself be swindled anymore.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2009, 12:17:59 pm »

The Shadowrun RPG for the Genesis had a bug like this. A black market somewhere in the midgame has the most advanced equipment available in the game. It costs a LOT. With a high enough Trade skill, you can sell things for as much as you buy them. And when you then complete a few (hard) quests for a local gang leader, this market turns out to be run under him, and he gives you a 50% discount on buying stuff. With predictable results. Buy 10 heavy combat armors for 5000 apiece, sell them for 10000 apiece, repeat until money is no longer an issue.
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Sergius

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2009, 05:24:59 pm »

The Shadowrun RPG for the Genesis had a bug like this. A black market somewhere in the midgame has the most advanced equipment available in the game. It costs a LOT. With a high enough Trade skill, you can sell things for as much as you buy them. And when you then complete a few (hard) quests for a local gang leader, this market turns out to be run under him, and he gives you a 50% discount on buying stuff. With predictable results. Buy 10 heavy combat armors for 5000 apiece, sell them for 10000 apiece, repeat until money is no longer an issue.

I knew I saw it somewhere, probably it was exactly Shadowrun.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2009, 05:31:24 pm »

 Any platformers that feel that just because a jump is possible means it shoudl be added.
 A pixel should not be acceptable as leeway room.
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cowofdoom78963

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2009, 05:38:11 pm »

If you can convince the merchant that he should buy an item for more than it's actually worth, or sell it to you for less than its actual worth, and you siphon too much money from him in this way, he should eventually get angry and refuse to deal with you anymore.

And I don't mean until you raise his disposition back to maximum by bribing him with 10 GP over and over. I mean he now hates you and he won't let himself be swindled anymore.
Except if you are actually able to sell a merchant his own goods multiple times for more then you bought them for, you would probably also be able to get away with him thinking he still got a good deal.
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a1s

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2009, 05:45:22 pm »

The already mentioned Fallout had that (it was toned down in the second part, where you had to invest a shipload of points into barter to do that kind of stuff to random travelers, but it was downright egregious in the first game). It was somewhat less of an issue than usual, due to the fact that merchants had a limited stock ( including of money).
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I tried to play chess but two of my opponents were playing competitive checkers as a third person walked in with Game of Thrones in hand confused cause they thought this was the book club.

JoshuaFH

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2009, 06:28:51 pm »

Let me think...

Final Fantasy X: The celestial weapons. WHAT WERE THEY SMOKING?! Alright, I know they're the strongest weapons in the game, but do I have to demean myself and play a retarded butterfly game to get Kimahri's ultimate weapon maxed out? Those butterflies gave me NIGHTMARES and I still didn't get the item I needed. You remember those old commercials? The one for G4 with the butterfly that threatened to open a horrible bag unless you watched G4? I swear that that's the SAME BUTTERFLY! or atleast a close relative.

In Fable 2: I know, cute dog. STOP FOLLOWING ME AROUND! Buried treasure isn't even that valuable! Your combat potential is pathetic! Your tricks are worthless except for pleasing the one dumb idol! And he KEEPS GETTING IN MY WAY!

Also, the lady that orders you around is a total bitch that kills the entire story. I hated her SO BAD! She orders me around, does NO work whatsoever, and then steals all the glory for your accomplishments. For example, she makes you travel to an island to serve as a slave in order to get closer to the big bad, but HELLO! I'm decked out like a human TANK, I can take everyone at the island BY MYSELF, EASY! I don't need to screw around with the namby-pamby sneaking around shit. Plus, at the end of the game, she offers you a choice of what you want to do with a magical wishing machine that gives you one wish, and your choices are: revive your DUMBASS dog (who dies in the most arbitrary and frankly BEST scene in the entire game, if only because the dog dies in it), revive all the people who died making the wish machine (WORTHLESS!, choosing this only gives you 100 good karma, which is a drop in the bucket) , or a 1,000,000 gold (which is completely worthless because of another broken mechanic). Oh, and no matter what you choose, the dumb bitch gets the last laugh because even though YOU are the one that's worked for everything, SHE'S taking all the best rewards, i.e. the most giant and epic tower EVER to live in, and she just kicks your ass out, and there's nothing you can do about it. Oh, also, there's no final boss. Thanks game, thanks for training me this entire retarded game, and then there is literally NO CLIMAX WHATSOEVER! What a letdown! I don't even get to kill the villain, some jerkass npc does. Goddamnit.

Also, just to put icing on the cake, gold turns out to be completely useless because, if you're observant, you'll notice that there are several factors that cause shop prices to fluctuate wildly. One being random discounts/shortages that decrease/increase the price of all items, and another being how much they like you personally. The trick to this though, is that if you get a store owner to like you, they buy and sell everything for less money, the inverse of this is also true, where if you get them to HATE YOU, they BUY and sell everything for MORE. So in other words, you can convince someone to give you TONS of money by getting them to HATE YOUR GUTS. At the end of the game, the weapon stores are selling LUDICROUSLY high priced weapons, but with a little seed money, careful observation of the discount/shortage warnings, and patient socializing, you can run from town to town making MILLIONS of gold. MILLIONS! The end game reward doesn't even COMPARE! I bought every single piece of real estate in the entire game, including the dumb castle, and STILL had far too much gold because of this dumb bug! YOU DON"T KNOW ECONOMICS GAME!

Also, one last thing that pissed me off royally, was that the alchemy shops sell you potions that increase your stats. These potions are BY FAR the most efficient way of gaining ability points, but man, every single time you want to drink one, you have to open up your menu, wait for it to load, go down, select the very specific item category for it, wait for loading. and then manually select it, wait for it to load, where it then exits out of the menu, and I have to repeat the 10 second tedious process all over. I JUST WANT TO DRINK ALL MY POTIONS ALL AT ONCE! PUT THEM INTO A BIG JUG AND SWISH THEM AROUND SO I CAN GUZZLE'EM ALL DOWN IN ONE ACTION! Oh, and the shops only generate so many potions each day, so to get a steady stream you have to buy them out, then go sleep, then go back and buy them out again, repeat ad nuaseum. JUST MAKE MORE THAN ONE A DAY IF DEMAND IS HIGH! YOU DON'T KNOW ECONOMICS!
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a1s

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2009, 07:09:59 pm »

YOU DON"T KNOW ECONOMICS GAME!
Actually you're the one who doesn't know economics. What you describe is a very real thing called Hoarding. It's punishable by (among others) US law on price gouging. It's illegal, but it's also very real. (so make that "U DON''T HAV A DECENT JUDICICIAL SYSTEM GAEM!!1!", which, I'm guessing, is true? ;))
JUST MAKE MORE THAN ONE A DAY IF DEMAND IS HIGH! YOU DON'T KNOW ECONOMICS!
consider how, maybe, that's as many as the guy can make per day? (so there should actually be less, not more, potions when you come back on the 2nd day.) Of course if some guy has been buying potions for a month without fail, that might be a que to expand the potion brewing business...
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I tried to play chess but two of my opponents were playing competitive checkers as a third person walked in with Game of Thrones in hand confused cause they thought this was the book club.

JoshuaFH

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Re: Bad game design
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2009, 07:20:54 pm »

Ok, maybe I don't know about economics.

But yeah, if demand is high, and I'm consistently buying your most expensive items in mass quantities, he should endeavor to produce more of that item, perhaps by investing in more sophisticated equipment to produce them in mass quantities.

What would have surprised me is if I accidentally threw the entire game economy into a great depression due to my actions.

That would have been fun.
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