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[Yoink]

Tasty eggs?


(I almost wrote fillets. Dangit guys, stop weakening my vegetarian-ness by pointing out how nasty chickens are.)

[kaijyuu]

ethically farmed.

Doh ho ho ho.

[The Darkling Wolf]

Yes, because clearly I included that caveat due to a complete lack of knowledge of the subject, and not at all because I'm aware of the conditions meat dogs are raised in.

[kaijyuu]

My intended implication is that it's pretty much impossible to farm something for slaughter "ethically."

[Nadaka]

My intended implication is that it's pretty much impossible to farm something for slaughter "ethically."

Sure there is. Give it a safe and comfortable environment, and then kill it quickly and painlessly.

[kaijyuu]

Do we really want to get in a debate on this particular subset of ethics? I'm always afraid someone will yell at me for being "preachy" or "condescending" when I do.

But anyway:


If that's your criteria for killing something "ethically," then does it apply to humans to? IE, would capital punishment would be ethical under those guidelines. (I'm assuming you consider it unethical already, so this argument doesn't really work if you're pro capital punishment)

[Yoink]

My intended implication is that it's pretty much impossible to farm something for slaughter "ethically."

Sure there is. Give it a safe and comfortable environment, and then kill it quickly and painlessly.

But, its entire life is spent in captivity, for the sole purpose of providing someone food? I think that was the implied implication of the implication.

Edit: Do I really type that slow?

[RedKing]

Depends on your philosophy of the relationship between man and animal.

We have a local NPR show here that did a fantastic interview a few years ago with a woman who dealt with that very quandry. The podcast is here (it's the latter half of the podcast, if memory serves).

It's not an easy answer, but it's not one that is so black-and-white either.

[GlyphGryph]

There are those of us who consider capital punishment significantly more ethical than lifelong imprisonment, and only avoid endorsing it because of it's long history of ending up used against those who are guilty of nothing and would later have been released.

And there is the matter of whether or it is ethical to raise animals in companion for other purposes - PETA, at least, seems consistent about this, with their opposition to pets of any form, but I have to wonder - for many animals, life in the wild is not pleasant. It is not rewarding. It is a struggle to survive. How much does a snail truly care about captivity, as long as it can quench it's desires and then retreat back into sleep?

It's tough to say. And does raising them for one purpose (slaughter) really make it worse then raising them for another, when the inevitable outcome of both is death in captivity?

[Fenrir]

If that's your criteria for killing something "ethically," then does it apply to humans to? IE, would capital punishment would be ethical under those guidelines. (I'm assuming you consider it unethical already, so this argument doesn't really work if you're pro capital punishment)

Their criterion probably includes an “as long as it isn’t human” clause in there, so then, when he uses the term “ethical farming”, he means that “I’m cool with it,” which in turn is a result of “Animals were killed without suffering (or suffering within my acceptable limits).”

You can not effectively argue against a different value system unless that value system is self contradictory and assigns a negative value to self-contradictory value systems. Then the opposition can be made to feel ashamed of the contradiction and update the system.

[Yoink]

You can not effectively argue against a different value system unless that value system is self contradictory and assigns a negative value to self-contradictory value systems. Then the opposition can be made to feel ashamed of the contradiction and update the system.

Oh gods, it is way too late for this. I think my brain just broke trying to make sense of that paragraph. 

Goodnight, Bay12! I shall continue these philosophical discussions once I've had some sleep.

[Nadaka]

Do we really want to get in a debate on this particular subset of ethics? I'm always afraid someone will yell at me for being "preachy" or "condescending" when I do.

But anyway:


If that's your criteria for killing something "ethically," then does it apply to humans to? IE, would capital punishment would be ethical under those guidelines. (I'm assuming you consider it unethical already, so this argument doesn't really work if you're pro capital punishment)

I don't consider capital punishment inherently unethical. It is merely problematic due to the biases of those involved in the process and the fact that it is uncorrectable if any mistakes are ever made.

Some people really are irredeemable and dangerous and should be put down.

Given the option between the current system of capital punishment in the US (particularly in Texas) and banning it? Banning it would be better. But it may be possible to reform the system enough.

[kaijyuu]

If that's your criteria for killing something "ethically," then does it apply to humans to? IE, would capital punishment would be ethical under those guidelines. (I'm assuming you consider it unethical already, so this argument doesn't really work if you're pro capital punishment)

Their criterion probably includes an “as long as it isn’t human” clause in there, so then, when he uses the term “ethical farming”, he means that “I’m cool with it,” which in turn is a result of “Animals were killed without suffering (or suffering within my acceptable limits).”

You can not effectively argue against a different value system unless that value system is self contradictory and assigns a negative value to self-contradictory value systems. Then the opposition can be made to feel ashamed of the contradiction and update the system.

Mhmm. IMO we're all animals so


@Nadaka
Okie dokie. So long as you're consistent on that front, I won't object to your logic.

[Kagus]

Gettin' up 3-4 hours earlier than I usually do tomorrow, for the joy of an hour commute towards a poorly-managed class where I have to work with a group for half of my grade, and where that group is dominated by an overbearing egocentric imbecile and his vapid, shit-eating grin that I would so love to rearrange through constructive use of the building's many brick walls.

Also realizing that I don't need this class for anything, and gain barely anything through completion of it.  It is not obligatory.  I was using it to fill out my initial semester sheet, and now I'm just sticking to it so the other two members of the group don't have to get saddled with more work and more attention from Mr. Potato-for-a-Brain Esq.

[Loud Whispers]

Dogs attacked the chicken coop. After we had driven them off, the chickens started eating the wounded alive. We had left their beaks untrimmed as a kindness, but we came to realize our mistake.

So yes, bastards.

Yeah, chickens are scavengers. I guess since people see them as farm animals they expect them to be docile herbivores or something.