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[Jim Groovester]

k but when will you post the duel?

Kashyyk is still unreported about who he is or is not supporting. So we're basically waiting on him.

[Kashyyk]

Sorry I was away, I was shotting people with BB guns.

I Use Fire Attack on ExKerby. Just to give him more of a chance, you know.

[JanusTwoface]

Short version:
- I don't think that not assisting either side is scummy.
- FoS Pandarsenic for possibly taking advantage of SniHjen's choice.
- FoS Kashyyk for helping ExKirby.

Spoiler: Long version (click to show/hide)

I don't think wizards should be non-committal when it comes to assisting. If you can't figure out who to assist based on our primary goal to find the Cabal, then assist somebody based on your secondary goal to win the tournament. At the very least, assist a wizard so that he gets rid of the person you think is a more powerful foe.

Additionally, being non-committal makes you look like you're trying to stay above the fray, like you don't want to get your hands dirty in an unintentional incapacitation of a Tower wizard. There's WIFOM potential in this. While it doesn't necessarily mean you're Cabal, it certainly makes people wonder what you're doing and it draws attention to yourself.

I respectively disagree.  I have three goals in this game:
- Find the cabal.
- Kill them.
- Stay alive.

For the first two, it does make sense that everyone gets involved, because without our help it's somewhat more likely that the cabal dualist will when (I think I'm going to write a script that will tell me just how much more likely at some point).  On the other hand, if we're not sure, we're likely to get far more information with less helpers.  (Depending on how Meph actually goes about describing the duals).

For the third, staying alive means staying out of fights.  Like I've said, when I'm more sure that one of the contestants is scum, I'll do my part to help.  But right now, I think that we most likely just shoved two overeager but completely innocent mages into the ring.  So I'll let them fight it out and go from there.

I want to throw SniHjen into the ring next - not for having black runes, but for spazzing about us commenting on them.

I don't disagree that SniHjen overreacted, but I'm also suspicious of you for this post.  It seems just like scum to wait for an opportunity (such as the one that SniHjen provided) and jump on it to get even more innocent mages to kill each other.  So FoS Pandarsenic.

Sorry I was away, I was shotting people with BB guns.

I Use Fire Attack on ExKerby. Just to give him more of a chance, you know.

Shooting at people?  That's a scummy thing to do... (/sarcasm)

More importantly, I see at least three possibilities for why you would assist ExKirby at this time:
- You and webadict are scum and you're trying to clear your name down the road when webadict is killed.  Because you know webadict's role, you would know if he could take the extra help being thrown against him.
- You and ExKirby are scum.  He's gotten himself into some hot water going against webadict and you are trying to help out under the guise of making it a "fair" fight.
- Neither of the dualists is scum and you're helping out because you think that not doing so will make you look guilty.  Again, you help ExKirby with the idea of making it into a more "even" fight.

I won't guarantee that any of these is true, but it is enough to FoS Kashyyk.

I still haven't seen anything that convinces me that either side is scum, so I will continue to abstain.

[Jim Groovester]

On the other hand, if we're not sure, we're likely to get far more information with less helpers.  (Depending on how Meph actually goes about describing the duals).

That's a good point. Frelock mentioned something similar, and I wish I had thought of it. If there are less helpers, then the combatants have to stand on their own. Whoever wins may have had a slight advantage in combat, and that might give us some clues about where to look for the Cabal.

On the other hand, there are lots of battle roles, so a slight edge might have nothing to do with being Cabal. Combat is random, so depending on how Mephansteras describes it, we may not get that much information out of it anyway, since one wizard's win might just have been dumb luck.

For the third, staying alive means staying out of fights.  Like I've said, when I'm more sure that one of the contestants is scum, I'll do my part to help.  But right now, I think that we most likely just shoved two overeager but completely innocent mages into the ring.  So I'll let them fight it out and go from there.

I'm a little confused about your reasoning in this aspect. What impact does your third goal have in your decision to abstain? Are you trying to avoid being picked for future duels by abstaining from supporting either wizard, or what?

As I said, abstaining makes people (namely me) wonder what exactly you're doing. So I'm just following up.

[Mephansteras]

Frelock inscribes Navy Blue runes of water in the air above webadict to give him additional Healing
Jetsquirrel inscribes Green runes of Earth in the air above webadict to give him a Defense Boost
Jim Groovester inscribes Green runes of Fire in the air above webadict to give him an Attack Boost
Kashyyk inscribes Mauve runes of Fire in the air above ExKirby to give him an Attack Boost
Leafsnail inscribes Turquoise runes of Fire in the air above webadict to give him an Attack Boost
Org inscribes Cobalt runes of Earth in the air above webadict to give him a Defense Boost
Pandarsenic inscribes Pink runes of Fire in the air above webadict to give him a Speed Boost
SniHjen inscribes Void Black runes of Earth in the air above ExKirby to give him a Defense Boost

[webadict]

SniHjen inscribes Void Black runes of Earth in the air above ExKirby to give him a Defense Boost

Void Black? You've got to be kidding me. That's a pretty dark choice for a color.

Anyways, some midnight thoughts.

I don't think wizards should be non-committal when it comes to assisting. If you can't figure out who to assist based on our primary goal to find the Cabal, then assist somebody based on your secondary goal to win the tournament. At the very least, assist a wizard so that he gets rid of the person you think is a more powerful foe.

Additionally, being non-committal makes you look like you're trying to stay above the fray, like you don't want to get your hands dirty in an unintentional incapacitation of a Tower wizard. There's WIFOM potential in this. While it doesn't necessarily mean you're Cabal, it certainly makes people wonder what you're doing and it draws attention to yourself.

Picking who's going to fight in Duel 2 is going to be a pain, what with all this WIFOM we already have going on.

I'm finally here. Here's what I have to say:

The problem with only going after your secondary goal?

You can't do it without removing the scum. The scum have the ability to remove you from the duels. Therefore, you have to worry about scum, unless you think there's a reason not to, in which case you're probably scum.

While this game is cleverly disguised as mafia, it is not mafia, because this is a game is a combination of several factors: Mafia, Luck, and Skill.

See, it's mafia in that there's a certain number of ne'er-do-wells. It's about luck because the mafia has a significantly higher chance to win (They have increased stats, teamwork, and... well secrecy), the use of power roles and boosts, and the "lynch" cannot be determined immediately. And the last bit, skill, is slightly different from anything else because you have to use logic to deduce how you can win and with what through previous battles.

[ExKirby]

*gets wand* Let's rumble!

[Neruz]

What kind of a two-bit wizard are you? Using a wand. Be a man, get yerself a scarf!

[Kashyyk]

What kind of a two-bit wizard are you? Using a wand. Be a man, get yerself a scarf!

You mean Staff, right?

also Janus:

I understand your three points and agree that those could all be options. But you have missed the fourth; that I believe it is incredibly one sided towards Webadict and as most people believed that he was an Archmage or something similar It looks like a one horse race.

I might have missed somewhere the reasoning for everyone helping Webadict, but until you point it out to me I believe that the Town is basically lynching ExKirby.

[Mephansteras]

Ok, I have all the actions now so I'll post the duel once I have a chance to do the write-ups.

Set-Up is now closed. Unlike normal mafias, I'm going to leave the topic unlocked so people can continue to talk. You're all standing around waiting for the officials to start the match at this point, so there isn't any reason for you to stop talking necessarily.

[SniHjen]

I might have missed somewhere the reasoning for everyone helping Webadict

I called it, and it is exactly why I chose to support Exkirby.

[JanusTwoface]

So does this count as a bandwagon on ExKirby or an anti-bandwagon on webadict?
In either case it is somewhat suspicious.

What kind of a two-bit wizard are you? Using a wand. Be a man, get yerself a scarf!

You mean Staff, right?

also Janus:

I understand your three points and agree that those could all be options. But you have missed the fourth; that I believe it is incredibly one sided towards Webadict and as most people believed that he was an Archmage or something similar It looks like a one horse race.

I might have missed somewhere the reasoning for everyone helping Webadict, but until you point it out to me I believe that the Town is basically lynching ExKirby.

If most people believed that he is an Archmage, then why would they assist him?  It's not like an Archmage would actually need it with +5 to every stat.

Also, whoever Neruz is, hi.  You managed to completely confuse me.

[Kashyyk]

I believe it is more of a Bandwagon against ExKirby, although there may be those who are aiding WEbadict for other (scummy) reasons.
And yes, I agree it is suspicious that everyone dogpiled to help webadict.

So my question to you and everyone else who helped webadict is: Why did you help him? Why not ExKirby? Or do you all already believe that Exkirby is Scum. If so, show me the evidence.

[ExKirby]

If your reasoning involves my misvote for Org, that wasn't entirely my fault.

[Org]

I need replacement, internets all weird.