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Author Topic: The progress of the next DF update...  (Read 3673 times)

Kruniac

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The progress of the next DF update...
« on: August 24, 2009, 06:02:25 pm »

I'm sorry if someone posted this, and this thread isn't going to be the most important of threads on the forums, but take a look at this portion of the update information for DF.

Quote
the current text: "You bash The Farmer in the upper body with your bismuth bronze war hammer, bruising the muscle, jamming the left floating rib through the liver tissue and tearing the liver!"

...Oh. Em. Gee.

I need some new shorts.
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Stargrasper

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 06:13:15 pm »

This is realistically what SHOULD happen to you if you get thwacked in the chest with a warhammer.  Ribs tend to break/shatter and then pierce internal organs.  It's a weapon for a reason, it's extremely deadly in real life.  You know how projectiles are devastatingly powerful in game?  Yeah...THAT'S how all weapons act in real life if they hit something important.
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Kruniac

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 08:40:05 pm »

This is realistically what SHOULD happen to you if you get thwacked in the chest with a warhammer.  Ribs tend to break/shatter and then pierce internal organs.  It's a weapon for a reason, it's extremely deadly in real life.  You know how projectiles are devastatingly powerful in game?  Yeah...THAT'S how all weapons act in real life if they hit something important.

Yeah. It's just extra godlike because what we have now is timid crap compared to THIS. This is CARNAGE.

...Not that the current wound system is -crap-, I'm just comparing the two. The current system is good, but this is the very spirit of DF - excessive. :)
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Stargrasper

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 08:48:52 pm »

Yet it sounds like even the new system isn't as excessive as reality itself.  Reality's nasty...  The current system isn't bad.  It's actually pretty good compared to damage in most games.  Remember, most games are your HP hits zero and you blow up or have a heart attack or something.  DF at least lets you bleed out.

I can't wait to see what this turns into.  You'll be able to rip enemies apart...but they'll be able to do the same thing.  I guess whoever gets the first strike will win.  Wonder what this will do to training accidents...?
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Kruniac

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 09:17:55 pm »

Yet it sounds like even the new system isn't as excessive as reality itself.  Reality's nasty...  The current system isn't bad.  It's actually pretty good compared to damage in most games.  Remember, most games are your HP hits zero and you blow up or have a heart attack or something.  DF at least lets you bleed out.

I can't wait to see what this turns into.  You'll be able to rip enemies apart...but they'll be able to do the same thing.  I guess whoever gets the first strike will win.  Wonder what this will do to training accidents...?

I'll be in heaven when/if we get diseases, infections, muscle damage, genetic disorders, and other manners of carnage. Woot.
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Rowanas

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 10:00:35 pm »

Unfortunately fights with 20 people on each side are incredibly short if they just run at each other as DF things currently do. The only reason that real-world fatalities weren't so common is because people were more bothered with dying than killing, DF seems to have everyone storm in and rend each other which stops battles from being as epic as they should be.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Draco18s

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 10:35:34 am »

I can't wait to see what this turns into.  You'll be able to rip enemies apart...but they'll be able to do the same thing.  I guess whoever gets the first strike will win.  Wonder what this will do to training accidents...?

I've played Table Top RPGs that are like that (first hit wins).  Playing a komodo dragon and fighting against a polar bear in a bar cage match was not the smartest thing I ever did (said bear was also my employer, and it was his idea).

Characters didn't even have a hit points statistic.  You merely accumulated penalties to rolls until someone (aka the GM) decided that a character's penalties were too high to perform any action (which becomes "unconscious").

Note: that RPG system was not written with those species as playable characters (anthropomorphized or otherwise), but the system was designed in such a way that it was trivial to create them; it already had dolphins, orcas, and genespliced humans ("cat blend" was one).
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 10:37:47 am by Draco18s »
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Dr. Melon

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 11:14:22 am »

The first mod I'll be making when it comes out will be lots of rabbits.
However, these aren't ordinary rabbits. Each breed will have a certain... interest to them.

For example, one, whe hurt, will bleed lava all over the place. Another will be able to inject a poison powder. Maybe one will bleed sand, or be made out of slime.
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Timst

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 11:56:54 am »

Well, armors and dodge tactics exist for a reason. And you can miss your attack, or you can lack the strength needed to use a warhammer proficiently. It's not plain instagib :)

PencilinHand

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 12:12:51 am »

Armour, in most cases, wasn't really intended to prevent injury.  Although, armour could stop a glancing blow or seriously negate some weapon strikes it was mostly to give the wearer a better chance of preventing death.   Shields and foot work were used to prevent injury more than anything as I understand it.
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Kayla

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 12:37:30 am »

Well, in addition to preventing minor injuries like cuts, armor was primarily used for the morale. For a lord or king, the last thing you wanted was your soldiers ditching the battlefield. So equipping your better soldiers with armor, increased the morale of them. It also decreased the morale of the (lesser equipped) enemy when they saw their enemies in shiny platemail and whatnot.

- Kayla, who really knows that she doesn't need to sign her name.
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ToonyMan

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2009, 12:48:36 am »

We just need more fat dwarves to soak up all the damage!  XD

Although fat won't stop much of the damage it's always good to get rid of the lazy dwarves.
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Axe27

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2009, 01:21:30 am »

Armour, in most cases, wasn't really intended to prevent injury.  Although, armour could stop a glancing blow or seriously negate some weapon strikes it was mostly to give the wearer a better chance of preventing death.   Shields and foot work were used to prevent injury more than anything as I understand it.

That's still the case today. A modern combat helmet today is made to stop grenade shrapnel. Any normal .22 rifle round will penetrate it all the way through. Ceramic armor isn't even made to fully stop bullets, simply to make sure that the bullet, if it penetrates, will only either leave a nasty bruise or embed in the muscle and not penetrate through.
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And thus did the dream of dwarven antigravity fade away, not with a massive explosion or a flood of magma, but with a whimper.

I'm going to be depressed all day now.

Neruz

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2009, 04:12:54 am »

Armour, in most cases, wasn't really intended to prevent injury.  Although, armour could stop a glancing blow or seriously negate some weapon strikes it was mostly to give the wearer a better chance of preventing death.   Shields and foot work were used to prevent injury more than anything as I understand it.

Your understanding is completely and totally wrong. (no insult intended), armor worked to both lessen the impact of injuries (turning a potentially crippling injury into a minor inconvenience) and to completely negate strikes entirely. A good suit of platemail renders one almost impervious to sword strikes and highly resistant to arrows and even early firearms. It required either the heft of a polearm or heavy mace\axe to cause serious injury to somone in full plate, or the precision of a dagger to strike at the weak points.

Right up at the end of the medieval period just before muskets were becoming common, heavy armor was nigh impregnable against most forms of assault, armor ruled the battlefield. The introduction of the musket (the first firearm that could reliably penetrate hardened steel armor at anything other than close range) started the end of the plate armor era.


The gun, however, changed things substantially, ever since the gun was invented our offensive abilities have outpaced our defensive ones. Modern armor serves an entirely different function to ancient armor (that of reducing the impact of glancing blows and shrapnel, rather than protecting the wearer in straight-up combat.)




I feel i should also add that modern Interceptor Body Armor is serious stuff and the vests the US armoy use are rated to stop 3 consecutive hits from a 7.62×51 NATO AP round at a range of 10 meters. Reports from Iraq and Afghanistan suggest that the plates can take upwards of 7 consecutive hits without being penetrated. Against somone in modern ballistic armor, you're better off stabbing him or aiming for an area not protected; unless you're packing some serious firepower you probably won't get through the armor before he fills you full of holes.

Interestingly, we're seeing Chainmail make a return in modern armor in anti-stab vests, as it's far more effective than standard ballistic weaves against ice pick and knife attacks, while retaining the flexibility that ceramic plates lack.

Here's a link to the Wikipediar article on ballistic vest performance standards; it's an interesting read. Note that the US army issues Type III vests.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 04:23:01 am by Neruz »
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IndonesiaWarMinister

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Re: The progress of the next DF update...
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2009, 04:35:28 am »

That's why the US soldiers can gib enemies on one-on-one fights?

Damn. We need to develop our anti-personnel explosives, then :D
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