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Author Topic: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming  (Read 10741 times)

dakarian

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2009, 11:22:40 am »

Apologies.  Would a flavor change help out?  The overall mechanic I want is:

As townie: Seeks to avoid being banned/NK for three days, then leaves the game to win.

If converted: becomes a Bomb without the 'kill the hammer' aspect. 

Also wanted some kind of forum based flavor for lulz. 
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Servant Corps

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2009, 11:45:32 am »

I'm going to likely create a new Religion Mafia game soon. I just need to make a new topic to gain recruits.
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dakarian

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2009, 12:03:32 pm »

Then I'll state my worry:  I'm not sure the agnostics have enough reason to go after the religious.  While the main combat is meant to be religion vs religion, the day game is carried by the 'town' and those that can pretend they are town.  At the moment, it seems that everyone doesn't have enough reason to lynch during the day since the religious want to avoid getting noticed and the town is busy trying to get recruited to the religions.

Perhaps if we made recruiting more risky:

Switch the Evan-start with a Prophet start and, instead of a Prophet option, you have to use a Trait to get an Evan.  That way not every religion starts with recruiting abilities. 

(yes the prophet gets to do the 2 trait/2 recruits but they don't get to recruit again afterwards)

After that, make it so that the Evan dies if he targets any of the original three members (recruited players won't affect that, even if they can't be recruited due to a prophet). 

Suddenly, it's DANGEROUS for a religion to rely on recruitment.  The town would still want to be recruited but now have to prove themselves.  Day 1 of this game shows the dangers of THAT.  Since the religion can't rely on recruiting, they'll have to stick to killing.

Which means the town has to get more active.

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Servant Corps

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2009, 12:32:22 pm »

The main problem is that the people are gathered so as to stop the religious fighting. While I guess some of them may believe that they would rather favor one side or the other, I also think a couple of people (the Moderators prehaps) have this goal: Ban/remove all three E-Evangalists. And this goal doesn't change when you convert them.
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dakarian

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2009, 01:05:24 pm »

Currently, the mods just need to ban 3 religious of any type.  If they get converted, they need to ban three opposing religious members.

Truthfully, the only ones that NEED the evans dead are the other religions.  The mod can just get the zealot/prophet/recruits while the merc can leave the evan alive if the others die.

Of course, if the players focus fire then there you go :P.



Speaking of mod.. wondering if this would be too evil:  Change mod from a double voter to a Silent Vote:  They vote via PM and, thus, never get shown on the voting roles.  That'll make his job easier if everyone stays silent.  If the religions try to lurk, they'll end up at his mercy.  They can nullify it better by pushing a vote for who they WANT killed.  Note that the mod CAN do a normal vote publicly and it will show on the vote count but it WILL not count.

Purpose: allows the mod to heavily control the vote.  They can vote for whoever they want without being seen and fake everyone else by Voting publicly since it won't count.  They can avoid detection by publicly voting then PMing their vote so that they 'match'. 


With all that, it'll make the day useful even if the game goes silent since silent day = Mod controls the vote. 

Last touch: if the game goes silent, the host sets an early deadline. 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 01:18:05 pm by dakarian »
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Leafsnail

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2009, 02:09:52 pm »

It might make sense to put "Atheists" in, who would just be unconvertable Agnostics.  This would at least force people to role claim Atheist instead of Agnostic, and would make it harder to arrange deliberate conversions.
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Free Beer

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2009, 06:46:56 pm »

One concern about the "choose two to convert at start" option is handling conflicts. The only ways to resolve them involve the religions gaining information on each other that they would not otherwise have started with.

Perhaps have the two converts fixed, but their roles selectable by the "leader"?
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Servant Corps

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2009, 07:22:43 pm »

One concern about the "choose two to convert at start" option is handling conflicts. The only ways to resolve them involve the religions gaining information on each other that they would not otherwise have started with.

Perhaps have the two converts fixed, but their roles selectable by the "leader"?

Well, you could have the leader choose the two traits, and then the GM randomly choose the converts for the E-Evangalist. That's what I plan on doing anyway.

Quote
It might make sense to put "Atheists" in, who would just be unconvertable Agnostics.  This would at least force people to role claim Atheist instead of Agnostic, and would make it harder to arrange deliberate conversions.

What would be a reasonable way for the Atheist to win though? After all, he can't just get converted and rely on the power roles of the Religion. I'll think about it though.
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Servant Corps

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2009, 09:22:40 pm »

Some idea for a new religious mafia game.

Spoiler: Religious Power Role (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Atheists (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Agnostics (click to show/hide)

EDIT:

4Chan Operative
Belief: Agnostic
Rules: Is in this argument for the lulz, and has two ways to win.

If he stays alive and unconverted for 3 days, he'll activate a hack which will cause the forum to shut down for 1 day. The end result is that one Day would be skipped, meaning there will be Two Night phases. 4Chan Operative wins and is removed for the game.

If 4Chan operative is converted, then he'll have to cause lulz in an alternative manner. The 4Chan Operative must be lynched or Night Killed in order to win then. The Night Killer or the last person to Lynch the 4Chan Operative gets killed.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 10:19:10 pm by Servant Corps »
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Frelock

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2009, 12:37:15 am »

You know, instead of having the moderator kill the Eevangelists, you could have them go for the banning of all trolls.
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dakarian

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2009, 01:17:38 am »

Looking at the roles: 

Yay.. the merc got in. 

On the Radical Athiest:  Perhaps change it to 'ban three religious' so that includes converted. 

On the Cabal:  Ahh, I see how that would work:  voting power there.  Seems VERy easy to win though since there's no real reason to kill them.. instead the religions can just focus on manipulating them to kill the others.  Perhaps keep the cabal down to Two and make it so that BOTH must survive (the other is removed and loses is their partner is killed)

On the Anti-activist:  love it.  I guess if they die by some means other than the conversion thing that they can STILL win if their enemy religion loses.

Sidenote: MUST have a game with 3 religions and one of each Anti-activist.  DO IIIIT!  DO IT FOR THE LULZ!



On the FBI hacker:  Oww.. much harder to win now (before they had a second option of Surviving/religion wins).  I'm assuming that the merc is ALWAYS in play (to make sure the Televans have something to work with and Hacker something to target if no one chooses Holy War)
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Free Beer

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2009, 10:21:09 am »

I like the new Moderator. He makes conversion potentially very dangerous. One thing: what if the evangelists get killed? Perhaps have it as "The three E-Evangelists are removed from the game."?

Ideas:
Multiple varieties of Troll: Much like evangelists, Trolls would be able to select a kit. This would affect flavor text, as well as grant the troll extra powers. For example:
-A porn troll could opt to post porn instead of their standard troll and offend everyone in their target's religion at once. They can only do this twice, though, and if they direct a porn troll at a non-religious person they get banned instantly.
-A math troll specializes in posting bad mathematics and getting people to argue over things like whether 0.999... = 1. Their troll lasts two Nights (which means that they can keep two people trolled), but 1/4 of the playerbase, decided at the start of the game, is immune to them (the troll goes either under or over their head).
-A gibberish troll has numerous spelling, logic, and grammar mistakes in his attacks. He can troll four people at once due to not having to think out his posts, but only two of his targets actually understand what he is talking about and take the bait.
-The anti-troll can troll three times per day, but he is only effective against other Trolls. The anti-troll's power both prevents his target from acting that Day, and also retroactively cancels the effect of any trolls already made by his target that Day.

New role: Spammer. They have to be banned three times or NK'd in order to be removed from the game. When unconverted, does nothing (they just make spam threads which nobody reads). When converted, starts spamming religious messages instead, making it impossible for anyone to convert as long as the Spammer is alive (the religious Spammer gives evangelists a bad name, and nobody trusts them).

New Role: Chatbot. The person posting the messages is not actually human, but instead is somebody's artificial intelligence experiment. They are made to post on the forum as some kind of "test." They are atheist, cannot be NK'd by Zealots, and cannot be converted. However, anyone who *attempts* to convert the Chatbot gets a result stating that they succeeded. If the Mercenary Hacker NKs the Chatbot, the Chatbot becomes an "AI Zombie" instead of dying. The AI Zombie retains all of their powers and victory conditions, but allows the Merc to kill twice per night instead of once on two non-consecutive nights.

New Role Modifier: Lurker. They can only post once per Day at most. One of the votes on them doesn't count, since nobody really knows what the Lurker is thinking and people are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Possibly make this an earned modifier rather than one decided on at the start?

New Religion Trait: Scholarly. This religion's meetings are high-brow enough to attract a Pseudo-Intellectual worshiper. The Pseudo-Intellectual may determine the belief of one person per night. In addition, as long as the Pseudo-Intellectual lives, this religion will successfully convert their targets if another evangelist also targets the same person that night. If two Scholarly religions try to convert the same target at the same time, the standard event happens.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2009, 10:30:39 am »

The chatbot sounds suspiciously like the broken "Ghost" from Paranormal.
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dakarian

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2009, 11:58:55 am »

Linking WOT with quote-by-quote reply to create..MECAWOT!

Look at the epic and fear!


I like the new Moderator. He makes conversion potentially very dangerous. One thing: what if the evangelists get killed? Perhaps have it as "The three E-Evangelists are removed from the game."?

Agreed to that.  Storywise, the mod would be more concerned with getting them out than HOW to get them out. 

Btw, VERY dangerous when converted since he can ban his own Evan without anyone knowing, especially if he lies about his role. 

Quote
Ideas:
Multiple varieties of Troll: Much like evangelists, Trolls would be able to select a kit. This would affect flavor text, as well as grant the troll extra powers. For example:
-A porn troll could opt to post porn instead of their standard troll and offend everyone in their target's religion at once. They can only do this twice, though, and if they direct a porn troll at a non-religious person they get banned instantly.
Not overpowered, but who would be crazy enough to take THAT?!  You make a direct enemy of the religion, give a good chance of losing and..for what?  Remember the troll's goal is 'survive' after all.

Adaption: If successfull, the troll remains hidden (the mod declares that the religion was trolled, but not by who.  The message doesn't say who the target is, JUST the religion itself).  If mistargeted, troll is outed (no record of who they targeted).  Only works once.

Once because it's a cop with benefits, since if it works the troll KNOWS they are religious as well as their group.

Quote
-A math troll specializes in posting bad mathematics and getting people to argue over things like whether 0.999... = 1. Their troll lasts two Nights (which means that they can keep two people trolled), but 1/4 of the playerbase, decided at the start of the game, is immune to them (the troll goes either under or over their head).

So a double blocker but 25% of the populous is immune.  Guess that can work.

Quote
-A gibberish troll has numerous spelling, logic, and grammar mistakes in his attacks. He can troll four people at once due to not having to think out his posts, but only two of his targets actually understand what he is talking about and take the bait.

Too random.  At least if you succeed with the math troll you know you will succeed again.  Random success = blah

Quote
-The anti-troll can troll three times per day, but he is only effective against other Trolls. The anti-troll's power both prevents his target from acting that Day, and also retroactively cancels the effect of any trolls already made by his target that Day.

Cute but no point to it.  The trolls aren't against each other. 

Trolls seem to be very powerful in this game.  If they get powers, it'll need to be something unique and not just multiple attacks.  It also has to sync with their desire to survive.

OOO, a crazy idea of EVIL!

Virus Making Troll:

Each night, the troll may target one person with a virus.  The virus shuts down their system for one night (rollblock).  At the end of the next day, whoever the infected votes for becomes infected and leaves the old player (virus shuts down when transmitted).  Not voting keeps the virus and the effect on the same person.  Voting for someone who's banned effectively kills the virus as does being banned/killed with the virus.

If this is chosen, the goal changes: have 3 people actively infected at the same time when the game ends.

(note: the infected player knows they are infected, though no one else does.)



Quote
New role: Spammer. They have to be banned three times or NK'd in order to be removed from the game. When unconverted, does nothing (they just make spam threads which nobody reads). When converted, starts spamming religious messages instead, making it impossible for anyone to convert as long as the Spammer is alive (the religious Spammer gives evangelists a bad name, and nobody trusts them).

Too strong.  That many saves means that it will last the game.  Conversion effectively destroys the evan role.  You could make it single target but isn't there enough things blocking evans now with the whole 'pick a religion and you die' deal?


Quote
New Role: Chatbot. The person posting the messages is not actually human, but instead is somebody's artificial intelligence experiment. They are made to post on the forum as some kind of "test." They are atheist, cannot be NK'd by Zealots, and cannot be converted. However, anyone who *attempts* to convert the Chatbot gets a result stating that they succeeded. If the Mercenary Hacker NKs the Chatbot, the Chatbot becomes an "AI Zombie" instead of dying. The AI Zombie retains all of their powers and victory conditions, but allows the Merc to kill twice per night instead of once on two non-consecutive nights.

Essentually a merc assistant.  Perhaps with some additions...

Chatbot: desires to be 'useful' to others.  If left alone cannot be banned, NKed, or converted but will not win when the game ends.  However, when targetted by a power role it becomed 'aligned' with that role and wins if their host wins.  Their powers change depending on their host. 

Religious: Retains their immune status but becomes a public 'associate' of the religion.  Does not count towards the 'number of religious members'.

Merc: Gives the merc the ability to kill twice every other night.

FBI Hacker:  Gives the FBI hacker the ability to kill each night as well as protect.

Other: Acts as a 'bodyguard' for their host. They still win so long as their target wins.

Quote
New Role Modifier: Lurker. They can only post once per Day at most. One of the votes on them doesn't count, since nobody really knows what the Lurker is thinking and people are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Possibly make this an earned modifier rather than one decided on at the start?

I saw reverse it and make it an overall rule: Before your second post, it takes one LESS vote to lynch due to added suspicion.  Effects all players.

Quote
New Religion Trait: Scholarly. This religion's meetings are high-brow enough to attract a Pseudo-Intellectual worshiper. The Pseudo-Intellectual may determine the belief of one person per night. In addition, as long as the Pseudo-Intellectual lives, this religion will successfully convert their targets if another evangelist also targets the same person that night. If two Scholarly religions try to convert the same target at the same time, the standard event happens.

mmm.  I like this one.  Make investigations occur after conversions (so yo don't end up with a Convert +investigation = false negative).
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Servant Corps

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Re: Religion Mafia - Discussion and Brainstorming
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2009, 10:29:06 pm »

Yeah, I think I'll just start it and see the end results.

EDIT: There will be no Chatbot this game because I feel there are so many new changes being suggested that it's best to test them out first before adding in this new complicated stuff. We aren't going to have Ghostjosh here.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 10:45:54 pm by Servant Corps »
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