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[Cruxador]

From the dev blog pictures, I noticed that female dwarves don't get facial hair. While I realize there are some people who prefer that, I don't know that that should be default. I certainly think there should be some sort of option to toggle whether it's allowed, though I realize that practically-speaking, the change would only take effect at world-gen. The problem is, while I don't know what's going on with the current code formatting, modding that to be different is likely to be extremely difficult if measures are not taken to facilitate it.

By the way, just out of curiosity, who actually prefers beardless dwarf women?

[sonerohi]

Try reading the devnotes more often. It's in the init file to be changed at your discretion.

[LordNagash]

I prefer beardless dwarven women, because it makes them feel a tad more realistic.

I mean, I know dwarves are fantasy creatures but women would have difficulty growing massive beards.

[Sutremaine]

I've seen women with impressive stubble. Women don't have any problem growing thick hair, it's just that the cells that produce that type of hair aren't normally found on the chin.

[Vester]

Biologically it's much harder for human women to grow facial hair (not that I've tried).

Human women.

I'd like to see dwarven women with beards, if only for the hilarity.

[GlyphGryph]

This conversation has been done to death, but its still fun to argue about.

I've never understood the argument that dwarven women with beards are "unrealistic". Could someone please explain that? It doesn't make any sense to me.

http://www2.vietbao.vn/images/vivavietnam3/chuyen_la/30056641_beard2405.jpg says its certainly possible within normal human deviation, and dwarves are decidedly odder than anything that falls within normal human deviation.

[Shima]

I'd like Dwarven women to be able to grow beards, but having beardless or shaven be the preferred option (IE, females can have beards, but it's not the norm).

[Vester]

You mean like a cultural thing?

Like how some Sikhs grow their hair really long?

[Obsidean_00]

Well personally I'd like there to be tags that would allow for male or female versions of the same creature to have an extra part.  Say you create a deer, said tag would allow you to make only male deer have antlers.  After all there's already a tag that allows you to give the male/female version of a creature a different name.

As for dwarven women growing beards, not a fan of bearded females myself, in games or otherwise.. but I would like the option to give them one if I wanted to.

[Granite26]

Well personally I'd like there to be tags that would allow for male or female versions of the same creature to have an extra part.  Say you create a deer, said tag would allow you to make only male deer have antlers.  After all there's already a tag that allows you to give the male/female version of a creature a different name.

As for dwarven women growing beards, not a fan of bearded females myself, in games or otherwise.. but I would like the option to give them one if I wanted to.

Next rev will have completely different raws for multiple sexes of a single race.  AKA full ant support for queens, workers, warriors, etc

[Pilsu]

If memory serves, Toady specifically stated he made the raw edit easy if you prefer women with beards

People call it unrealistic because dwarves are pretty much short alcoholic humans. Not a very good argument but it's easy to see why one attributes human traits for such an uninspired race


The way I see it, dwarven women should have ample soft chest hair or something equally weird

[Vester]

The first Sword of Shannara book posits that dwarves are a stunted offshoot of humanity, short because they adapted to living underground. (I had to put the book down after the Gandalf ripoff gives the main character the deus ex machina balls Elfstones, it was just unreadable)

So if that's your theory of dwarven evolution, then maybe dwarven women don't have beards.

But if your theory is that they are similar, but not completely related to humans and elves (the horror!) then there's no reason for the women not to have beards.

[LordNagash]

If memory serves, Toady specifically stated he made the raw edit easy if you prefer women with beards

Yeah, it's just commented out. So it's as simple as deleting a couple of things and you've got all the beards you could want.

There's a lot of talk about how dwarven women could have beards, but there's no answer of /why/ they would have beards except 'lol they're dwarves'. That strikes me as just as 'uninspired' as treating them like short humans

[Vester]

Oh, I just thought of something.

Mammals, birds, and most lizards tend to be sexually distinct towards the male side. A lot of adult males will have "beards" (Rooster combs, Lion manes, Parrot coloration, lizard coloration and frills), in comparison to females.

Um, maybe dwarves have a similar thing with their own beards? Maybe that's what people mean when they say "realistic". Sexual dimorphism is a common thing for larger, more complex animals.

[Shima]

Of course, Dwarves are smaller, less complex animals, with no sense of survival nor forethought.

I still prefer how I said earlier, but I do agree with how you said it, Vester: a cultural thing.  One Dwarf culture might have female beards in fashion, another might not, with a sprinkling of Dwarfems who can't grow a beard for some reason or another.

I'm not 100% sure when the "Dwarfems have beards" started.  I think it may be from Tolkien (And later Pratchett) or the source Nordic material, although I can tell you the resolve to have Dwarfems with beards most likely comes from the fact that, until now, the sexes have been entirely equal, with exception to birth (Even though, before now, technically, I don't think the Dwarves actually had beards at all, except for the prefstring reference).

The way I see it, dwarven women should have ample soft chest hair or something equally weird

I can think of a place for them to grow soft, supple hair, aye