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[Bricks]

-In imitation of humans or other humanoid species.  If interaction between humans, elves, goblins, etc. is advanced enough that they are actively trading and occasionally traveling together, its very believable that cultural bleeding would occur.

I'd like to see human women wearing beard plates and have it be as unremarked upon (in-universe and out) as dwarf women not having beards. Also dwarf men without beards in areas where the human norm is a clean shave.

True that.  I'm not sure how variable Toady intends to make culture, seeing as how its difficult enough to make a consistent fantasy race in the first place, but it would add some serious flavor and history to the game world.  I think he specifically mentioned the case of a dwarf growing up among elves shaving.  Personally, I'm all for the dwarflords insisting that I go and kill the tree-living, beardless, cannibalistic dwarfs down the river, as long as they provide the swamp brew for the molotov catapults.

[Murphy]

Mammals, birds, and most lizards tend to be sexually distinct towards the male side. A lot of adult males will have "beards" (Rooster combs, Lion manes, Parrot coloration, lizard coloration and frills), in comparison to females.

For me, dwarves are not like that. They are paragons of gender equality, so much that their males and females all look the same from a different species' point of view.

And that's player's perspective, too - how many of you could actually remember whether a particular dwarf is male or female? They all have the same bearded tile, don't they? Well, civilian and soldier tiles do differ, but that hardly matters.

Also, dwarves have a prefstring of "beards". So how is it that half of them would not actually have what they are liked for?

[Pilsu]

Everyone likes dwarves for their beards regardless of their views on bearded women. It's a deep rooted cultural stereotype

[HammerHand]

Really?  I like Dwarves for their stout frames, cast-iron stomachs, stony disposition, longevity, ethnocentricity, lust for battle, work ethic, craftsdwarfship, and deep cultural heritage.

... How they choose to wear their beard (or whether their women have one) is an interesting personal choice, and maybe a reason I'd like a particular Dwarf, but not why I like Dwarves as a whole.

[Murphy]

I didn't mean to tell why DF players like dwarves. I meant that everyone inside a DF world who likes dwarves, does so for their beards. It's in the raws. Unless you mod the prefstring to be "beardless women" or something similar

[Silverionmox]

... ethnocentricity ...

When did that sneak in? While the cats were bugged, probably.

[Stromko]

re: ethnocentricity. I think all races in multiracial settings tend to be highly ethnocentric, it's just that Dwarves will go out and admit it, loudly and often, in a matter of fact way.

In other words, it's a trait that isn't unique, but simply springs to mind because they're comparatively very open about it.

So we get the stereotypical Dwarf complaining about how humans live in rickety artificial shelters and elves are tree-loving pansies, because while humans might think dwarves are weird for living underground all their lives they'll usually be tactful about it, and elves -- well elves are actually ethnocentric too, and will complain bitterly about dwarves' regard for nature. Even the traders: "We respect your more . . . ethical works" (emphasis added).

To my mind, 'tact' is not something that the average dwarf exhibits, at least not in dealings with outsiders. If anyone does something different than how dwarves do it, they'll point out how backwards and strange it is. Other races might think the same in similar situations, the dwarf just says it, and so appears much more ethnocentric than other races.

[Silverionmox]

Dwarves are certainly isolationist, brash and disdainful of those with lesser craftsmanship, but that doesn't imply they're ethnocentric. They have quarrels with elves, but that's the result of their different views on trees, not of a particular ethnocentricity of either side.

But really, dwarves can be anything they want. I wouldn't mind "Urist is particularly distrustful of elves" as a possible character trait. The problem is that AFK political views are being latched on fantasy races for no good reason. Toady has been so kind to subvert the usual stereotype by making elves cannibalistic, let us in turn avoid to project political stereotypes on them.

[Sutremaine]

It's a deep rooted cultural stereotype

I dunno, so is dwarves using their babies as shields. Maybe that should be a prefstring, since (pseudo) medieval culture has a different attitude towards babies (can't afford another sprog right now? Sucks to be you, baby).

[G-Flex]

Please don't say "sprog". It reminds me of insane childfree people on livejournal.

[Pilsu]

Really?  I like Dwarves for their stout frames, cast-iron stomachs, stony disposition, longevity, ethnocentricity, lust for battle, work ethic, craftsdwarfship, and deep cultural heritage.

... How they choose to wear their beard (or whether their women have one) is an interesting personal choice, and maybe a reason I'd like a particular Dwarf, but not why I like Dwarves as a whole.

Right, list every trait vaguely dwarven trait yet deny beards are a part of the package.    Clear closet case.

I didn't mean to tell why DF players like dwarves. I meant that everyone inside a DF world who likes dwarves, does so for their beards. It's in the raws. Unless you mod the prefstring to be "beardless women" or something similar

Beards are strongly associated with them. It's not uncommon for real life dwarf fans like them for their beards even when holding a negative view of bearded women

If it's really that grating, change it to 'stout frames' yourself.

[Murphy]

If it's really that grating, change it to 'stout frames' yourself.

Actually, it's not. Moreover, I'm all for beards as symbols of dwarves, male and female alike. My objection was addressed to HammerHand.

[Sutremaine]

Please don't say "sprog". It reminds me of insane childfree people on livejournal.

Have to say, I've never had the pleasure of browsing any of those ljs. It's a fairly neutral word around where I live. 

[DG]

For me, dwarves are not like that. They are paragons of gender equality, so much that their males and females all look the same from a different species' point of view.

The biggest contributing factors for such equality is that DF dwarven women are not burdened by pregnancy or childbirth and are physically just as strong. I hope that doesn't change for them.

[Areyar]

.... by 'not burdened' you mean 'uninconvenienced' right?
Because when I read it I went: "Hah! dwarves DO lay eggs!" ..."then again, brooding takes up a lot of effort and time".