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Author Topic: MSPA Homestuck  (Read 5126516 times)

Enzo

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15405 on: December 20, 2010, 12:37:05 am »

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15406 on: December 20, 2010, 12:45:33 am »

 Dave, Knight of Time, able to travel between two different timelines and not just up and down his own. This isn't even normal time travel where one goes up and down, this is sideways stuff.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15407 on: December 20, 2010, 01:02:29 am »

I think that casual Dave is the doomed timeline, because green Dave saw god John.

Nope, can't be. Go to the timeline viewer, and you'll see that the Dave on the bed is indeed doomed Dave.

I can think of a situation where Dave's choice and the result of the coin flip are completely irrelevant. Since doomed Dave has always existed, from Terezi's viewpoint, Terezi simply reports to Dave the result where he waits to learn about the god tiers. No coin flip is needed at all. I think it's probable that Terezi isn't being completely honest with Dave here, unless these are legitimately new timeline mechanics.

Still, in imagining the scenario Terezi created a doomed timeline, which is just irresponsible. Come on, Terezi, you're (probably) better than this.

I don't think Dave is going to go through with stabbing himself. He's not going to become a murderer of a doomed, helpless version of himself just to compete with John.
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Aqizzar

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15408 on: December 20, 2010, 01:11:28 am »

Still, in imagining the scenario Terezi created a doomed timeline, which is just irresponsible. Come on, Terezi, you're (probably) better than this.

I don't think Dave is going to go through with stabbing himself. He's not going to become a murderer of a doomed, helpless version of himself just to compete with John.

I think it's become abundantly clear by now that Terezi isn't better than this.  She might be likable and prime waifu material and all that shit, but she is basically crazy.  Once a killer, always a killer and so forth.  Regardless, I have my own doubts that Dave is going to stab himself, but slab-Dave is going to die.  Who knows, maybe Dave's about to get his own taste of Jack, since the guy obviously knows to look for players on stone beds.

This isn't even normal time travel where one goes up and down, this is sideways stuff.

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15409 on: December 20, 2010, 01:16:41 am »

 It would be a monumental boon for Dave if he said "Fuck this shit I'm leaving" and screwed the timeline. Then Terezi threatens him that she has seen the future, and that if he doesn't do it he'll be part of a doomed timeline. He screws that noise and does whatever Dave wants, not what future Dave or past Dave wants.
 And then Rose kills him on the quest bed so he can make her starless star map.
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Azzuro

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15410 on: December 20, 2010, 01:30:07 am »

Dave, Knight of Time, able to travel between two different timelines and not just up and down his own. This isn't even normal time travel where one goes up and down, this is sideways stuff.

I don't think Dave is traveling "sideways" into alt. timelines. Trollian's viewer is inaccurate, because the timeline isn't a series of parallel lines - it's more like a tree of all possible outcomes. Thus, doomed Daves aren't exactly hopping to another branch or twig of the tree, they're moving 'down' the tree and backwards into the past, where their actions prevent the doomed timeline from even existing in the first place (see: Davesprite). The timeline from which they came not existing anymore retroactively dooms them too, because they have no point of origin for all their memories of the doomed timeline.

Terezi's case here is special, because it's not immediately clear who is the doomed and who is the alpha. Both Green and Redshirt Dave in this case traveled back to what we definitely know is the alpha timeline, but since they both traveled back, one is doomed, while the other isn't. At this point, we can't tell which one is doomed (although I think it's redshirt Dave). Terezi is smarter than she looks, because she gave pre-flip Dave the instructions for both outcomes, meaning that the doomed Dave wouldn't need to communicate with her (which he couldn't because that was a doomed timeline) and thus reveal which Dave is the doomed one. As to why I think Green Dave is the doomed one, it's because Redshirt Dave has waited a day, and possibly communicated with Terezi telling him to go back and kill himself. The communication means that Redshirt Dave is definitely in the alpha, as Trollian can't talk to doomed timelines.

Finally, there's the point that the timeline appears to split fourways, because of the two possibilities of the flip and Dave's two choices. What if Terezi hadn't actually flipped a coin, and instead told Dave that it came up bad heads? That would mean the timeline only split twice.
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Cheeetar

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15411 on: December 20, 2010, 01:33:57 am »

I think Dave's going to stab other Dave, travel back in time, put on a green suit, and go to sleep.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15412 on: December 20, 2010, 01:41:14 am »

Terezi's case here is special, because it's not immediately clear who is the doomed and who is the alpha.

This isn't true.


The Dave with the Libra chat bubble is the point at which the timeline diverged. (The middle timeline.)

The Dave wearing long sleeved record shirt is Alpha Dave, as his timeline (the second from the right) continues forward.

The Dave wearing the Felt Suit is doomed. His timeline (the third from the right) goes dark in a little bit, so he's the one that's going to die.

Finally, there's the point that the timeline appears to split fourways, because of the two possibilities of the flip and Dave's two choices. What if Terezi hadn't actually flipped a coin, and instead told Dave that it came up bad heads? That would mean the timeline only split twice.

There's no mutability in the result of the coin flip. The only reason the timeline diverges is because of Dave's choice, which was the entire point of the scenario as Terezi tells it.

Dave, Knight of Time, able to travel between two different timelines and not just up and down his own. This isn't even normal time travel where one goes up and down, this is sideways stuff.

I don't think Dave is traveling "sideways" into alt. timelines. Trollian's viewer is inaccurate, because the timeline isn't a series of parallel lines - it's more like a tree of all possible outcomes. Thus, doomed Daves aren't exactly hopping to another branch or twig of the tree, they're moving 'down' the tree and backwards into the past, where their actions prevent the doomed timeline from even existing in the first place (see: Davesprite). The timeline from which they came not existing anymore retroactively dooms them too, because they have no point of origin for all their memories of the doomed timeline.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 01:50:19 am by Jim Groovester »
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Cheeetar

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15413 on: December 20, 2010, 01:48:00 am »

This isn't a post.
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breadbocks

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15414 on: December 20, 2010, 01:48:42 am »

Terezi's case here is special, because it's not immediately clear who is the doomed and who is the alpha.

This isn't true.


The Dave with the Libra chat bubble is the point at which the timeline diverged. (The middle timeline.)

The Dave wearing long sleeved record shirt is Alpha Dave, as his timeline (the second from the left) continues forward.

The Dave wearing the Felt Suit is doomed. His timeline (the third from the left) goes dark in a little bit, so he's the one that's going to die.
Look at the image closer. The slider is way to the right. We're being trolled by Hussnasty.
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Sensei

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15415 on: December 20, 2010, 01:52:46 am »

So, when Rose goes on her suicide mission, what do you want to bet she rides her quest bed off to destruction? There might even be some kind of resurrection involved, who knows.
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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15416 on: December 20, 2010, 01:55:23 am »

 That would actually be rather badass, surfing to destruction on her deathbed and awaking on the battlefield when her real body gets nuked over there. Although it seems whatever injury kills you is transferred to your dreamself for the resurrection, so her dreamself is gonna disintegrate before becoming whatever she becomes.
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I would bet money Andrew has edited things retroactively, except I can't prove anything because it was edited retroactively.
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Outcast Orange

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15417 on: December 20, 2010, 01:57:59 am »

I know the Terezi viewer is evidence against my hypothesis, but regardless:

I predict the Dave standing over the sleeping Dave will kill himself (same standing Dave),
 showing causality what's what.
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breadbocks

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15418 on: December 20, 2010, 02:00:20 am »

I know the Terezi viewer is evidence against my hypothesis, but regardless:
No it isn't. Terezi is viewing a fully splinter section onscreen. We're being trolled.
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Outcast Orange

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Re: MSPA: [S] JOHN. RISE UP.
« Reply #15419 on: December 20, 2010, 02:03:20 am »

Wait a second...

If sleeping Dave is killed on his deathbed, doesn't that mean he will live on?
So the Dave holding a sword is doomed?
Or will sleeping Dave have to die AGAIN?

Unless sleeping Dave IS alpha Dave, and the current Dave will realize that HE is the doomed timeline.

O. O ?
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