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[Hippoman]

funny...
Just before i went to sleep last night...i was thinking, why doesnt someone just offer to make a new website...i mean i know several very good website makers...so im just saying...

[Skorpion]

I don't think it needs changing. Plain HTML, no snazzy crap, any relevant information right up there, and I don't need to disable NoScript to view it.

Sure, it looks a little plain, but it works. Plain text and simple HTML go with everything.

[cowofdoom78963]

I think the main question is not how to change the site, but if the site will acctualy be changed.


And obviously if its been the same way for ten(?) years its not going to change now.

[GlyphGryph]

I definitely can't wait for DF to get some better graphical components, but the website? Its, honestly, one of the better video game websites I've seen. Do those who thinks it needs to be improved have a better example it could be striving for? Because the only game website I can think of thats better is the Puzzle Pirates site (which also loads much slower), and I've been to a lot of game websites.

Exceptions: Some pages need to be updated, like screenshots.

The Bay12 site is terrible, though. A different background colour and some better spacing and it would be better, not great, but good enough.

Also, the website is not an advertisement - the only way one is going to end up on it is if you are looking for it, at which point the decision to download has likely already been made. As long as it doesn't hinder people from accomplishing that (and it doesnt) its fine.

[G-Flex]

I don't really see what's that bad about the website main page.

It's not pretty or anything, but it's navigable and doesn't hurt my eyes. That's really all I can ask for. It doesn't need to be terribly snazzy.

Granted, there's some redundancy in the fact that the side links are also represented in the page itself, but whatever. I just don't really think it's worth complaining about.

[Michael]

I do not speak for the original poster, and in fact have no problem with the opening Bay 12 page.

But I have some suggestions for the DF pages:

First, start a site in DF, on sloping ground.  Choose one with a river visible from the same altitude level as the wagon.  Revealify it (so that ore deposits and stone layers are visible in the higher-elevation portion of the map where the ground is above the wagon). Then generate a snapshot of the map, at wagon level.  This should use the default 10x12 font and show just map, no UI elements.  It should be a large enough bitmap that it will fill the entire window even on higher resolution computers. 

Then use that as the background, instead of the dark bricky texture used at the moment.  Because this image will be overall much brighter than the bricks, it will be necessary to put translucent black boxes behind the text to preserve some contrast.

This would serve to advertise DF's key feature, to those of us who are not desperate for "better" graphics, which is the sophisticated random terrain generation.

Oh, and I'd dike the center alignment on the text.  I find it ugly -- although many web sites of the 90s used it extensively despite it being slightly more work than the default left alignment, so maybe my perceptions are warped....

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, the screenshots need updating, that's for sure.  Maybe one of them could be on a dwarves personality, to show the indepthness of the character generation and psycology.

[shadow_archmagi]

Yeah, the screenshots need updating, that's for sure.  Maybe one of them could be on a dwarves personality, to show the indepthness of the character generation and psycology.

This is pretty much the only thing I agree with here.

I like the bay12/dwarves  website. To quote Jubile Early "The design is... functional"

It's a hell of a lot better than, say, http://www.ea.com/

Or worse yet: http://www.thesims3.com/

On the other hand, most of us elitist netties agree that EA is hardly a golden standard, so why not use something more beloved, like Team Fortress?
http://www.teamfortress.com/

Oh wait, their website is just a graphic, with a plain background and left-aligned text with the occasional bullet point. Just like Toady's.

[Krano]

Neither the Bay12 homepage nor the DF page are 'simplistic'. Follow this link:

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

And you'll see a mash-up of links, widely varied text sizes and colors that clash with the background, three unrelated subjects separated by an aesthetically displeasing, blurry 'divider', and a long list of previous versions of the game.

Nothing wrong with that, of course. The audience that Dwarf Fortress is targeted to are the same folk who like websites like that. A site remodel won't change most people's attitude that Dwarf Fortress is an unplayable game made out of punctuation. A pretty site wouldn't be a very honest reflection of the game itself, although it might increase the number of downloads, it would do nothing to increase the fan base. After all, the game is a hell of a lot more difficult to navigate than the website. If anything, the site should be changed to be nearly impossible to interpret and get around to more accurately depict the game.

Oh, and some folks around here have a tendency to bare their fangs and descend like locusts upon those who talk about their favorite game in a negative tone, especially regarding the graphics. The game won't be ASCII forever, guys, things have to change eventually. We should be able to have calm, open discussion on things like these, I just think it's too soon in DF's life.

[qwertyuiopas]

All that the main bay12 page needs is a better image, and maybe a background, and the DF pages are just about perfect.


For the bay12 image, I am imagining a 3-layer graphic, first layer ASCII(similar to image below), the second layer more DF-like, and a third layer with graphics similar to what would be found in DF later.

They would be faded and merged so that all three could be seen at the same time, and the symbolism of past-present-future bay12games would be quite neat.
(Unfortunately, I am not good enough to make a decent layer2, and nowhere near good enough for 3)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[buman]

Yeah, the screenshots need updating, that's for sure.  Maybe one of them could be on a dwarves personality, to show the indepthness of the character generation and psycology.

This is pretty much the only thing I agree with here.

I like the bay12/dwarves  website. To quote Jubile Early "The design is... functional"

It's a hell of a lot better than, say, http://www.ea.com/

Or worse yet: http://www.thesims3.com/

On the other hand, most of us elitist netties agree that EA is hardly a golden standard, so why not use something more beloved, like Team Fortress?
http://www.teamfortress.com/

Oh wait, their website is just a graphic, with a plain background and left-aligned text with the occasional bullet point. Just like Toady's.

There is allot more going for the Team fortress website then just a graphic and some text. Being a blog the front page is always changing and you can get new information right from that page. For Df to be similar in this respect you could port a summary of the dev blog onto the front page.

As well the page incorporates the color theme as well as character elements from the game itself, as suggested above elements of game play, such as screen shots, can be incorporated into the front page.

Most importantly bring the community into the front page, show a link to a popular thread, link three toes latest story, link to news articles on DF by other websites.

[Untelligent]

The game won't be ASCII forever, guys

What makes you think that?

[Aqizzar]

The game won't be ASCII forever, guys

What makes you think that?

Come on now.  I want people to play my game.  When you guys get all exclusive, it's bad for me.

Must this argument happen every single time anyone so much as mentions graphics in any context?

[ein]

My only complaint about the websites is how the bricks on the DF pages are lined up perfectly. I think it would be better if they were staggered a bit. Like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Really easy to do.
Here's something I patched together in about 30 seconds:

[Capntastic]

Ein's right.  That is the one thing that needs to be fixed.