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[ed boy]

Just a thought - we're sticking to technology that existed in or before the 1400s. Da vinci lived in the 1400s, and he invented some pretty nitesnse stuff.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Leonardo DREW stuff that wouldn't be invented for several hundred years, you can no more claim those Leonardo 'inventions' then you can claim the Flying car was invented in 1927 because it was in the movie Metropolis.

[Neruz]

Alot of the stuff he drew was conceptually sound though; with a bit of inginuity and alot of experimentation and somone insane enough to try it, his saner ideas may well have come into fruitation.

Dwarves are good at inginuity, experimentation and insanity.

[Safe-Keeper]

Not exactly, because the flying cars in films are just that... film props. Da Vinci's parachute, by contrast, has been reproduced by modern researchers and tested, and guess what? It safely brought the test "pilot" (who no doubt had a modern parachute on his back for backup purposes ) from the plane to the ground.

Could engineers build the car in the film you mentioned from the information in the film? If so, would it fly? I somehow doubt it.

I see Impaler's point, though - that regardless of what Da Vinci invented in the 1400's, his drawings were not realized until much later.

[Neruz]

Largely because everyone thought he was crazy.

[Safe-Keeper]

Yes, I'm all in favor of Solifuge's ideas on naval movement: jagged movement for diagonals while maintaining the same shape of the ship.

Also, for those who disagree that boats belong in Dwarf Fortress, bear in mind that eventually you'll be able to play more than dwarves in the game.

Right. I don't see huge Dwarven navies happening, they'd preferably have only modest sea transports and whatnot, but humans have been known throughout our history to be more than decent seafarers. Just that Dwarves can't use something doesn't mean no one should.

That, and there's vessels such as row boats, canoes, kayaks and other small-scale stuff that it'd be great to have for crossing rivers in Dwarf Fortress mode and whatnot.

[Neruz]

I imagine dwarves would build great big iron-covered steamboats.

[Gaulgath]

Thinking about the issue of rotating boats... perhaps it could be implemented in such a way as boats would only be seen in one of the four cardinal directions? As in, say, adventure mode, you go to the dock and pay to go on a voyage. You see the boat, sure, and can walk around on it, but when it disembarks you go to the world map view for the duration of your voyage. It would stay in this view unless the ship were attacked (pirates, sea monsters, horrible storm etc.) and then it would switch to the normal map view  with the ship displayed in one of the easy four cardinal directions (until the catastrophe is averted)

I'd say that this makes large boats a quite bit easier on the implementation side, while allowing the player to still construct his own ships and walk around on them as an adventurer, so it's not too bad of an abstraction, I'd think.

[alfie275]

That is what Toady said, that they will be able to face in 4 directions but move in any direction.

[Neruz]

Which is a perfectly fine solution. You just rotate the boat to the direction it's mostly heading, favoring not rotating for perfect diagonals, and leave it at that.

Sure it means the boats go sideways a bit, but that's not the end of the world; it really doesn't matter that much. Oh noes, sideways boats, whatever shall we do?!?!?


Having made two games with this kind of movement (since i was too lazy to draw diagonal sprites) it looks fine if done properly.

[Nadaka]

I imagine dwarves would build great big iron-covered steamboats.

Iron clads, or even submarines. But that is a little steampunkish for dwarf fortress.

I see elves using tamed giant turtles or some odd kind of living mangrove tree magically warped into something vaguely sailable.

[Neruz]

Dwarves already make use of pressurised steel magma pipes, steam generators doesn't seem like a huge leap, especially considering the kind of complicated mechanics Dwarves can pull off.

[Safe-Keeper]

I'd rather not have modern stuff popping up around in the game. Sure, people could have built steam engines in the 1400's, but the problem is they... didn't. And I feel that having steam technology in a middle ages world, especially when restricted to only one civilization, would simply not work.

[Neruz]

We're not talking full on steampunk tech; just boats.

[LordDemon]

I'd rather not have modern stuff popping up around in the game. Sure, people could have built steam engines in the 1400's, but the problem is they... didn't. And I feel that having steam technology in a middle ages world, especially when restricted to only one civilization, would simply not work.

I think one of the reasons why greeks didn't develope steam power furthre, was that they saw no need to do so. They had slaves, who could complete much more complex tasks, and the slaves were common.

But if civilization won't use slaves they won't have access to such workforce, and they might be more interested in developing steam engines, to ease the work loads.