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[umiman]

That's what I mean by your assumption is flawed. Using your example, people here aren't saying that obsidian is worse than steel. It's equal if not better. Thus, +21 to +20 on a knife scale (obsidian vs steel).

I'm saying that even though it MAY be equal or better in terms of use, it's not as reliable: +21 (with .25 chance of breaking) to +20 (obsidian vs steel) using your silly example.

So even if you may rather have a +21 blade to save your champion (who for some reason can only be saved with a +21 blade of hellfire doom), you risk a .25 chance of it breaking off and killing him by accident or something. Since the guy can for some reason by saved with a 1 point difference in knife quality, it's valid to assume that anything equal or better than a 1 point difference in knife failure, even if he can change the knife when it breaks, will kill him.

Therefore, it's better to go for the one that won't break on you. Since the game as we know it won't tell you whether your knife (again, for some reason) is not good enough to save your ailing champion, there's no point in guessing who deserves better knives and who doesn't because it's a logistical nightmare.

[bjlong]

... ok, I see your point, but you're missing the point of the estoc. It's primarily a thrusting sword, with less-well-sharpened edges. But the point of it was the point, its main thrust was thrusting, &c. To claim that it was left unsharpened is rather ignorant. Points need sharpening, too. On top of that, it would be useless as a blunt club, as you claimed swords were.

It seems you're using a different definition of sharpness than anyone else. Please remember that the difference between a thrusting and cutting situation is merely the cross-section of the wound. A tip is sharp; a blade is sharp. These are generally consequences of one another.

As a note, swords generally kept their cutting edges to prevent opponents from grabbing the blade, and for fighting unarmored opponents. Indeed, the German nobility (a military elite) kept their longswords 'til much later than the 1400s, despite advances in armor. It seems to me that this was not simply for tradition's sake. There are plenty of plates detailing how to use longswords against opponents with armor in the fighting manuals put out by the masters of the day.

[SirHoneyBadger]

In technical terms, a tip is acute, a blade is sharp.

There's a vast difference between the two, in terms of their use, maintenance, abilities, etc. when applied to a sword.

And the estoc had no sharpened edges.

It certainly wouldn't be useless as a blunt club, or they'd have never made the bastard and two-handed versions.

Keeping a cutting edge to protect the blade from being grabbed is fine, but that's different than using that edge to penetrate armour. Not all swords were sharpened, though. A lot of them weren't, and a lot of them were used as big stupid iron clubs--with points, fine.

But if they hadn't had a use for them, as clubs, they could have easily just made spears, with less metal and less skill involved.

[Aqizzar]

ARG arguments about weapons no one here has touched

So, health care.  Will a hospital be designated from a bed, like the barracks is?  Since unclaimed beds already function like hospitals.

Do we get to pick a chief doctor, or does one come like a noble?  Do they get a medical corp like the Fortress Guard?  Because it would be nice to see dwarves who are actually dedicated to healthcare and not just peasants with no other jobs enabled.  (Who then hang out in the meeting hall all day, get elected mayor, and run into combat to retrieve a wounded guy for the first time ever.)

[umiman]

I'm more curious about the noncombative aspects of healthcare. Will dwarves get sick, terribly sick, and fatally ill? Will there be different kinds of doctors? How about a healing success rate? How long will treatment take and is it possible to conduct treatment over a course of time. I.e:

A dwarf has a cold. Goes to see doctor. Doctor gives medicine. Dwarf goes back to work. Dwarf comes back a week later for refill. Etc.

-or-

A dwarf breaks his leg. Doctor puts cast. Dwarf goes back to work with cast. Dwarf goes back for checkup. Etc.

[SirHoneyBadger]

ARG arguments about weapons no one here has touched

I've actually handled quite a few different types of medieval swords, and other weaponry. My dad was a professional sword-appraiser for auction houses for years. He owns, and I have owned, several medieval era swords, as well as Japanese katana and wakazashi, civil war era sabres, and fencing swords.

This is stuff I grew up with, studied, and have personal hands-on experience of.

[Aqizzar]

I'm interested to see if a dwarf with a broken arm will get a cast/sling or something, and then go back to work with, say, reduced production speed.  Instead of the wound being completely unimpeding, or the dwarf just sulking around until it heals.

Actually, a bigger question, is the healing of breaks/mangles (or whatever the wounds are now), still tied to the season change.

This is stuff I grew up with, studied, and have personal hands-on experience of.

You have academic experience with antiques and historians.  Honest, for-keeps medieval combat is another matter entirely.

[SirHoneyBadger]

You have academic experience with antiques and historians.  Honest, for-keeps medieval combat is another matter entirely.

That's correct, but I think it gives me an informed and valid opinion.

[Rockphed]

I'm interested to see if a dwarf with a broken arm will get a cast/sling or something, and then go back to work with, say, reduced production speed.  Instead of the wound being completely unimpeding, or the dwarf just sulking around until it heals.

Actually, a bigger question, is the healing of breaks/mangles (or whatever the wounds are now), still tied to the season change.

This is stuff I grew up with, studied, and have personal hands-on experience of.

You have academic experience with antiques and historians.  Honest, for-keeps medieval combat is another matter entirely.

Since Toady only started it today, I think it is too early to ask.

[Org]

Soap Makers wont automatically go to the Army now.

[Aqizzar]

Since Toady only started it today, I think it is too early to ask.

He has plans and notes.  I'm more asking in general though.  I don't expect a comprehensive answer, it's just interesting.

You have academic experience with antiques and historians.  Honest, for-keeps medieval combat is another matter entirely.

That's correct, but I think it gives me an informed and valid opinion.

I didn't mean to start an argument.  I just don't think many real medieval smiths or warriors put this much comparative thought into the weapons of the day.  I see it like cars are now - multitudes of different styles and theories, all offering barely marginal advantages over any other.  But what are most choices based on?  Personal preference and gut-checks.  I imagine the same methodology persisted back then too.

[Mephansteras]

Hmmm...if we do get specialized health-care dwarves, I'd like to see them get a decent amount of money in the economy phase. Right now a dedicated 'doctor' is usually even poorer then the haulers.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I didn't mean to start an argument.  I just don't think many real medieval smiths or warriors put this much comparative thought into the weapons of the day.  I see it like cars are now - multitudes of different styles and theories, all offering barely marginal advantages over any other.  But what are most choices based on?  Personal preference and gut-checks.  I imagine the same methodology persisted back then too.

You're probably right about that. But that's part of the fun of the exercise: comparing all those different methods, and methodologies, to what might or might not have happened, 600-800 years ago.

My whole point was that a lot of times, people take what they see in movies--ninjas with sharp edged katanas, or Zorro cutting candlesticks in half with a rapier, or the lightsabre--and assume that the edge ruled everything.

[Org]

Will Toady eventually add in wood weapons? Like the Poor Man's Mace?

[G-Flex]

Elves already make wooden weapons, so they're possible. They're just not Dwarf-made. More an elven thing.