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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3666430 times)

James.Denholm

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11475 on: January 28, 2010, 11:52:46 pm »
Quote from: dragnar on January 28, 2010, 10:48:52 pm
Quote from: Shadetree on January 28, 2010, 09:33:46 pm
So why are we burning those Elves Urist?
To dry out those other Elves of course
for what?
burning.
We dry the elves so that we can burn the elves so that we can dry the elves...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The thing is, with the amount of elves, it damn near would be infinite...
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Imagine a combination of power goals 44 and 45: The ruler convenes a council of the nobles to appoint you the high priest of the nearby towns. Instead of waiting for them to finish their drinking session, you walk in and crush a goblet while berating their disgusting behaviour and general incompetence.

Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11476 on: January 29, 2010, 12:17:24 am »
Quote from: Haven on January 28, 2010, 09:29:53 pm
Would drying them out over a fire be efficient?
Not really, I don't think. But tossing mostly dry elves onto an existing fire should work; the moisture would evaporate and the elves would contribute to the longevity of the fire.

Quote from: Deadbeard on January 28, 2010, 09:22:23 pm
Quote from: Cruxador on January 28, 2010, 08:46:07 pm
You know, on the subject of burning people, they'd probably be most effective with some amount of preparation first. At the very least, you's want to drain the blood like you would when slaughtering pigs. Even then, there's still a significant amount of liquid in the body, so I'd think it wouldn't burn too well without a lot of work, more so than it's really worth. Certainly not hot enough to work metal.
So in conclusion, this would be pretty much useless until we get lighting.

You could pack them in a chamber with salt. Once they've dried up they would burn quite readily, I would think.
The problem is, salt is generally worth more than fuel. The best bet from an economic point of view would probably be to just toss the corpses somewhere that's normally hot and dry, and hope you get lucky.
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Reese

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11477 on: January 29, 2010, 12:41:43 am »
Quote from: Cruxador on January 28, 2010, 08:46:07 pm
You know, on the subject of burning people, they'd probably be most effective with some amount of preparation first. At the very least, you's want to drain the blood like you would when slaughtering pigs. Even then, there's still a significant amount of liquid in the body, so I'd think it wouldn't burn too well without a lot of work, more so than it's really worth. Certainly not hot enough to work metal.
So in conclusion, this would be pretty much useless until we get lighting.

Actually, no preparation is needed, a clothed human(or any other sort of animal with a decent amount of body fat) can burn quite well thanks to the wick effect.  Granted it's a slow, subtle burn.
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bluephoenix

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11478 on: January 29, 2010, 12:52:36 am »
In the next version graphics/tile sets are going to be broken a lot more than they are now with the randomized creatures and all, thats why ill try to learn to play it in ASCII and my question (and point of this post) is are all creatures exept for dwarves represented by letters (i hope) ?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 03:22:35 am by bluephoenix »
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Retro

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11479 on: January 29, 2010, 12:59:05 am »
Quote from: Dr. Hieronymous Alloy on January 28, 2010, 10:39:47 pm
This is a question for anybody --
How many noble offices/throne rooms/etc. will we need in the next version, for how many total nobles?

Planning out a new fort design but not sure if I need to put in an office for the Dungeon Master etc.

Check this out - each position tells you in its raws what they require and how lavish it must be.

Quote from: Toady One on January 26, 2010, 07:13:23 am
Dwarf positions (hammerer item is currently busted and not in there, general had an issue and world-level military ones are basically meaningless, take them with a grain of salt, but this is basically it):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Bacu

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11480 on: January 29, 2010, 04:39:15 am »
Quote from: bluephoenix on January 29, 2010, 12:52:36 am
In the next version graphics/tile sets are going to be broken a lot more than they are now with the randomized creatures and all, thats why ill try to learn to play it in ASCII and my question (and point of this post) is are all creatures exept for dwarves represented by letters (i hope) ?
More or less. Demons are '&', if you don't want to consider that a letter. Also fish aren't a 'letter'. They stand out pretty well, though.
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DreamThorn

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11481 on: January 29, 2010, 07:06:18 am »
Quote from: Igfig on January 28, 2010, 11:29:18 pm
I just had a wacky thought.

You know how entity creatures with [CAN_TALK] usually trade with you, and those without the tag are invariably at war with you?

What would happen if a race had one caste with [CAN_TALK], and one without? Would the communication problems automatically start wars, or would trade work as usual?  And what if the merchants were all of the non-speaking caste?  Would you still be able to trade?

Hell, if things worked just right, you might have civilizations that come to trade every year while simultaneously trying to conquer you.

Actually, none of the warlike or trading species have the [CAN_TALK] tag.  They all have [INTELLIGENT], so I think it must be some other tag which determines this.

I looked in the species raws.  It looks like the [liKES_FIGHTING] tag combines with [CAN_CIV] (which is included in [INTELLIGENT], I think) to create attackers.  I guess these must be species-level tags.

In the entity raws there are tags like [SIEGER] etc. which determines how they attack, but all entities have tags of this kind, so that's not it.

So I created a race to test my idea, but all I got is that they won't trade.

I think it must be some combination of the attack types and civilization ethics that determine what they do.

I'll wait for the new version before I experiment with this again, though.
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Quote from: Dermonster on January 25, 2013, 05:54:04 pm
This is what happens when we randomly murder people.

You get attacked by a Yandere triangle monster.

Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11482 on: January 29, 2010, 07:25:21 am »
Quote from: DreamThorn on January 29, 2010, 07:06:18 am
Actually, none of the warlike or trading species have the [CAN_TALK] tag.  They all have [INTELLIGENT], so I think it must be some other tag which determines this.

Actually, it is INTELLIGENT. That tag is essentially a shortcut for CAN_TALK, CAN_CIV, and CAN_LEARN. Mods like the Orc mod remove the INTELLIGENT tag and replace it with CAN_CIV and CAN_LEARN, so the civilization is always hostile to everyone. The SNATCHER and THIEF entity tags do work similar, though. The downside to the civ's without talking ability is that the siegers are generated without names unless they're historical.

And Igfig's idea is wacky, I must say. That said, I suspect that since the entity as a whole can speak, though certain individuals can't, the entity would behave normally. That, or it would depend on the first defined caste.
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Shoku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11483 on: January 29, 2010, 08:20:06 am »
Quote from: theTrueMikeBrown on January 28, 2010, 05:23:14 pm
I have to admit, I thought it was cool too - I just dislike the people who vandalize wikipedia about as much as elves are commonly hated around here.
I used to have the same sort of view about people in society in general but then I realized I could go hating an endless sea of people forever or stop expecting everyone to be perfect. Door B seems to have been a much happier one.

*I'm not devoid of anger or anything. I just try to use it in situations where I think I might be able to change something.

Quote from: bluephoenix on January 29, 2010, 12:52:36 am
In the next version graphics/tile sets are going to be broken a lot more than they are now with the randomized creatures and all, thats why ill try to learn to play it in ASCII and my question (and point of this post) is are all creatures exept for dwarves represented by letters (i hope) ?
Do you mean you'll learn to play ascii because you don't want to wait or that you'll play ascii because it's like an eldritch horror clawing it's way out of your skull when you see letters and pictures mix?

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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11484 on: January 29, 2010, 08:39:27 am »
I dont think graphic will be that broken. I asume we get a MitD ("Monster in the darkness" ref. OOTS) graphic for random/forgotten beasts compleete wit a umbrella.

edit:
Question about the "Humanoid"-Template: Do we get Random Animalman on the Map at some point? Would they appear in the same Biomes as the parent animal? Like one Northern Forrest (retreats) gets wolfman while a jungle gets Cheetah-men? Or foulblendecIcewolf/Unicorn-men if said biome is sinister/sphere influenced?

Speaking of unicorns what are the physical properties of theyr horn? Is it in some way extra pointy/sharp? What odd Monster-materials can we exspect?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 09:31:41 am by Heph »
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Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11485 on: January 29, 2010, 09:32:45 am »
]
Quote from: Dr. Hieronymous Alloy on January 28, 2010, 10:39:47 pm
This is a question for anybody --
How many noble offices/throne rooms/etc. will we need in the next version, for how many total nobles?

Planning out a new fort design but not sure if I need to put in an office for the Dungeon Master etc.

Check this out - each position tells you in its raws what they require and how lavish it must be.

Quote from: Toady One on January 26, 2010, 07:13:23 am
Dwarf positions (hammerer item is currently busted and not in there, general had an issue and world-level military ones are basically meaningless, take them with a grain of salt, but this is basically it):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, that was actually confusing me. I don't see the monarch's spouse listed there, for example -- do they still require rooms? What about Duke's consort?

Does the militia captain overlap with the sheriff, or are they separate?

Looking at just that list, and ignoring the military ranks (captain, lieutenant, general, etc., since I'm not sure how they work), it looks like I'll need:

12 offices
10  noble Bedrooms
10 noble Dining rooms
3 noble tombs

at minimum, but I'll also need some extra office quarters etc. for the military officers, and there may be consorts (and what happened to the philosopher? =( )
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11486 on: January 29, 2010, 10:39:33 am »
Well, the champion would usually be your best (or most popular) warrior, depending on how the raising morale thing would work.

@Hieronymous: I was wondering about the room stuff myself as I asked whether we need to house the outpost liason and/or the diplomat as well.

@ those talking about the ASCII vs graphics stuff: Maydays graphics pack already does this since it has no graphics for dead creatures, so it reverts to default ASCII graphics, same for critters in a built cage. It will possibly treat those with no Mayday graphics as having default ASCII graphics. It did for the Ironmen (which are so rare I've only seen one individual once, in tons of embarks) which used the ASCII default, so I guess it will do the same for the random beasts.

Also, you'd think the Chief Medical dwarf would at least want an office since he or she could have paperwork and stuff.

@Heph: Besides the fact that it would be as valuable as anything else from the animal (which would be x10 if its unchanged from the way it is now), maybe it would vary by culture. Like some believe that the horn is an aphrodisiac, ground horn would have medical properties (in the real world, you may as well eat your fingernails as thats what rhino horns are made of, keratin, like your fingernails....)....
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 10:50:29 am by smjjames »
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Maggarg - Eater of chicke

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11487 on: January 29, 2010, 11:14:26 am »
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Quote from: Digital Hellhound on February 18, 2009, 10:50:43 am
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jamoecw

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11488 on: January 29, 2010, 11:28:58 am »
Quote from: smjjames on January 29, 2010, 10:39:33 am

@Heph: Besides the fact that it would be as valuable as anything else from the animal (which would be x10 if its unchanged from the way it is now), maybe it would vary by culture. Like some believe that the horn is an aphrodisiac, ground horn would have medical properties (in the real world, you may as well eat your fingernails as thats what rhino horns are made of, keratin, like your fingernails....)....

what about the leaching effect of various substances on the horn as the rhino goes through life?  maybe all that dirt and poop and what not is what is considered healthy.
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Shoku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11489 on: January 29, 2010, 11:40:31 am »
Quote from: smjjames on January 29, 2010, 10:39:33 am
@ those talking about the ASCII vs graphics stuff: Maydays graphics pack already does this since it has no graphics for dead creatures, so it reverts to default ASCII graphics, same for critters in a built cage. It will possibly treat those with no Mayday graphics as having default ASCII graphics. It did for the Ironmen (which are so rare I've only seen one individual once, in tons of embarks) which used the ASCII default, so I guess it will do the same for the random beasts.
I forget the level to which people don't know about graphics.
It's all images, whether you're dealing with ascii or "graphics." The tileset is just the bare minimum you need and is geared for changing the colors so that the same whitish block can be used by the game for a brownish sand wall or a greyish half mined out granite wall (or wherever that actually gets reused.) The "graphics" files are done in exactly the colors they're going to display as in the game and instead of the creature raw saying what spot on an image to grab their square worth of pixels you have a different text file that says "particular creature should instead grab it's pixels out of this other spot in another image file."

Currently for dwarves you can assign graphics at several levels. You could make a dwarf in a yellow uniform and in a single line indicate that that represented all of the wood profession dwarves and then if you wanted you could make a variation carrying a saw and have that be specifically only for wood cutting dwarves. From this we can tell that the game can look at several levels for graphics and take the most specific one.

Creatures don't usually have professions but what they will have now is castes. You will be able to just make a hyena image if you like or you can make a male one and a female one. Assuming Toady hasn't gone and stripped versatility out of the system and hid his foresight away under a box or something.

So basically everything has the "least specific" spot built right into their raw (letter from the tileset plus color,) but you can make the game look elsewhere if you please. Currently it doesn't do this for corpses or caged animals though come graphics overhaul who knows what we'll get?
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