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Author Topic: The Inventions Megathread.  (Read 7111 times)

bjlong

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 04:47:47 pm »

Under mathematics, you might want to add geometry--it was very important in ancient Greece for solving lots of problems. Also, Biology and physics were more-or-less codified by Aristotle. Astrology and Astronomy should also be up there--they weren't fully separated until practically the modern era.

I'd like to echo SirHoneyBadger. I don't want to spend a few years "researching" mathematics and then get all the bonuses, but technological development outside of my control is a big want. It would be great to have DF simulate the small-but-steady improvements of technology and science.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 05:42:41 pm »

Atrology and Astronomy would need an entire firmament with stars, planets, Moons, maybe fogs, Comets, Meteors, shooting stars etc. It would be nice to have especally in combo with Magics.

Anyway to the suggestion. I think some of the stuff mentioned here would add to the game other stuff is a bit wacko so thumps up for it.

Arches etc. for example would need an entire recoding of the cave in code so its not coming very soon.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 05:47:07 pm »

Geometry is a good suggestion. I can think of lots of things our dwarfs would use it for (like architecture).

Astrology/Astronomy is a *HUGE* idea! Ideally, I think it would be utterly fantastic if at some point we had a Dwarf Fortress-specific astronomy/astrology (or two separate but inter-related) system in place. Although it might have some degree of magical influence, when the magic arc is gotten around to, it's also a superb source of thematic fluff for our dwarfs.

The day they were born could have an influence on Dwarf personalities, their likes and dislikes, people they're friends with/attracted to romantically, and possibly even their social station (The Dwarf King, as an example, might automatically/retroactively be born on a "day of great significance").

Different dates, and/or "portents in the sky" (like comets, full moons, or meteor showers) might influence their emotional states, and maybe even influence artifact moods.

Ofcourse, a full moon could very well increase lycanthropic activity, while a new moon might increase undead attacks, or just kobold activity, under protection of the darkness.

New, thematic Zodiacal signs for the DF world would be fun to develope as well.

Even just listing an astrological profile for each dwarf would be a nice little bit of individuality to have for them, in the game.

It would ofcourse go hand-in-hand with several of the inventions mentioned.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2009, 05:57:32 pm »

The local fortune teller could be an good source for quests and infos too.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2009, 06:25:08 pm »

A good point, Heph.

Concerning that, when the magic arc gets here, more mystical inventions such as scrying devices, dousing rods, and alchemical formulae might become a part of the whole.
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aaaabaaccaadfda

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2009, 10:47:34 pm »

what about combing your idea of the orrey with these astronmy ideas?

sorry turns out i dont have much time today after all sorry so maybe tomorrow?
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 01:14:15 am »

I was thinking of the same thing, aaaabaaccaadfda - when/if (hopefully when) there's a working in-game astronomy, a constructed orrery viewed in Adventure mode might show you a neat little written-description model of the heavens. Maybe with several different viewable parts?
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Fortis

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 12:17:16 am »

Here's an idea. What if there is a scholar or inventor noble. He would make demands for things to be used in his inventions, and for paper, ink and the like (should they ever be implemented.) But every once in a while, he would create a device from that list and teach your dwarves how to build more like it.

It would be a way to gradually make new devices available without getting the RTS feel. Plus it would make fufilling mandates actually useful.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2009, 02:49:55 am »

I haven't posted in this thread in a while, so I thought I'd better.

Fortis: That's a very good idea, that could possibly do with just a little refining (I hope you don't mind my saying so). I'll have to give that some thought.

aaaabaaccaadfda: I just might do that, at some point in time. I wonder if Toady/ThreeToe has anything in mind, where astronomy/astrology is concerned.

Am I wrong in thinking that Toady does more of the mechanical stuff, and ThreeToe tends to do more of the background themes? It might be productive for me to send ThreeToe a PM about astrology/astronomy at some point...

Astronomy and astrology really deserve their own thread, though, and more than that, they could really use some official sanction. To create a complete astronomical/astrological system-one that would have a reasonable amount of depth-would be a vast amount of work.

Doing all that work, just to be told that the Devs don't have any interest in implementing anything of that nature would be just a little frustrating.

Still, it's awfully compelling... Possibly a poll would be in order?

Granite26: I'll check out your sigs as soon as I find the time. They look like they may be very useful, indeed. Thanks!

Anyway, I'll try to keep up with this a little more consistently in the future, as my time and attention allows.
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betamax

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2009, 06:05:46 am »

Just a quick correction: writing wasn't invented by the Egyptians, it's much older, dating back to the Sumerians. The Epic of Gilgamesh, one of the earliest pieces of literature, was Sumerian.

Anyway, more on topic: parchment was invented probably in the 5th century BC, and considering it's made from skin, is very Dwarven (imagine writing trade receipts on *elf skin parchment*). Papyrus is even older, and maybe a special plant could be made for DF which produces something similar. Paper was invented in China in the 2nd century.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2009, 06:11:22 am »

Just a quick correction: writing wasn't invented by the Egyptians, it's much older, dating back to the Sumerians. The Epic of Gilgamesh, one of the earliest pieces of literature, was Sumerian.

You're right. I was just thinking of runes specifically, and heiroglyphics made a nice example. Not the oldest one to be found, though, I'm sure.

I like to list dates to go with inventions, but as long as it can be established that a given invention happened before 1400AD, I'm satisfied.
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SomGuye

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2009, 01:52:59 am »

Huzzah!  I've been meaning to seek this forum out since I started playing.

First of all, the Astronomy is an interesting idea, would be neat to see some basis for why the dwarves act the way they do.  Plus, it would help to have groups of highly similar individuals, I could decide what materials to use in construction (Duvak like granite, the color lemon((since when is 'lemon' a color?)) and cats for their bravado) and (Metronak likes marble, the color lemon, and cats for their beard).  These people could be born the same day but different years and therefore like similar things with random modifiers for each year (cats for bravado as opposed to beard).
However, my complaint comes from the fact that dwarves should never see the sky!  They should grow up believing that the Heavens are made of the rock over head and that the rocky heavens Heavens held up by timber beams (timber from Tower Caps of course).  Only the original immigrants should know the dark secret of the bright, vomit inducing Sky.  (Dang, went all Logan's Run there)

Next Ceramics!
I know this has been suggested before, but I gotta get my 2 cents in.
First gathering clay:  Designate a clay gathering area along a clay containing wall in a similar way to how you would designate an area for mining.  Have clay gathering slowly eat away at the wall like mining, only much much slower.  So, designate a 5x5 area of solid clay wall for clay gathering, and eventually you will have a 5x5 room.  If stone is encountered in the area, then the stone is left alone.  Sort of like how "damp" stone is left alone.
Now, have ceramics exist in two forms:  Green (unfired) and Finished (fired).  Green has only the initial material value and whatever quality modifier imbued to it by the Potter (craftsdwarf, whatever) that made it. Finished ceramics could get a 2x value modifier.  On top of that, allow them to be decorated with bone, shell, studded with metal, encrusted with gems, etc.  These could be some bad-ass trade goods.

Goods made from ceramics could include weapons, bricks (finally some fricken stone in a world with a water level and no sand!), pottery, crafts, decoration, cups, statues, etc, etc

I think that they ought to come in stacks like ammo.  Lets face it, you are gonna get a huge number of plates out of a ton of clay.  So I figure that making a stack of 10 plates at low level Potter from a unit of clay is not unreasonable, and getting a stack of 40 from that same unit of clay from a Legendary Potter makes sense.

The act of firing (baking) ceramics could have some interesting skill effects.  Since firing ceramics in the real world is a gamble, have the skill of the Dwarf firing them (furnace operator skill) effect how many Finished ceramic items you will ultimately get in a stack.  Say you have a Legendary Potter making the greenware (unfired) ceramics, but only a midlevel Furnace Operator running the Kiln, a stack of 40 unfinished plates may end up as a stack of only 20 plates!

Now, my idea for plates.  Have them act as the obvious trade good, some of these things are gonna be absurdly valuable by the time they come out of the Kiln.  But, you could also have them act as value enhancers for food!  Say a dwarf eats a -well-crafted- meal.  If he eats it off of a plate it could seem to him that he ate a          +finely-crafted+ meal instead.  Plates would, depending upon their own quality and such, improve the meal for the dwarf!  As they say, when you go to a restaurant, you pay for the atmosphere and the food!  So if you eat a burger in a fancy restaurant as opposed to McDwarves (copyright!) you are gonna enjoy it more!
Now, to keep this from being an easily exploited thing, make plates run a chance of being broken after each use.  Say a dwarf grabs a plate from a stack of 20 +<<Plates>>+, he is gonna run a 1/10 chance of breaking that plate and not being able to return it to the stack when he is done.  Or say his meal is interrupted somehow (a kobold thief pops up next to the Hammer dwarf at the next table and Hi-Jinks ensue), our original dwarf is gonna get pissed and smash his plate because he was interrupted during his meal.

So, more later.  When I remember the rest.
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SomGuye

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2009, 02:36:17 pm »

When I first encountered Cinnabar, I thought SWEET, something I can use to dye clothing.  But I was dissapointed to find I could not use it to dye cloth.  Now, it would be a spectacular use for Craftsdwarves to decorate objects, since this has been its historical use anyway.  Have it be like "Decorate with Bone/Shell"  except "Decorate with Cinnabar" "Decorate with Alabaster" or something like "Decorate with Decorative Stone."
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Granite26

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2009, 02:50:55 pm »

Just a quick correction: writing wasn't invented by the Egyptians, it's much older, dating back to the Sumerians. The Epic of Gilgamesh, one of the earliest pieces of literature, was Sumerian.

You're right. I was just thinking of runes specifically, and heiroglyphics made a nice example. Not the oldest one to be found, though, I'm sure.

I like to list dates to go with inventions, but as long as it can be established that a given invention happened before 1400AD, I'm satisfied.

That's a questionable attitude.  There's lots of stuff invented before 1400AD that didn't come into it's own until the industrial practices where developed to the point where it was profitable.  Also, a significant number of inventions preceded their modern use.

Otherwise, you end up with Swiss-Tech filled with items that seem like they should be period but designed with post-1400AD design philosophy technology.

Sunday

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Re: The Inventions Megathread.
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2009, 02:54:13 pm »

How 'bout slings?

Not slingshots.  Though those could be cool, too.  Speaking of which, it might be neat to have a really basic type of rubber - I think people have been tapping rubber trees for millennia, though I could be wrong.

Also, did anyone mention Atlatls?

Semi-technological - ways of long distance communication.  Though I guess it wouldn't be super useful at this stage in the game - it would have to wait for the caravan/army arc.  But I'm thinking watchfires.  And smoke signaling.

There's a lot of cool old navigational technology, but that will have to wait for both boats and astronomy.  Though maybe not even astronomy - the pacific islanders used the stars to navigate, but they also used birds (birds have to land somewhere), and even the feel of the waves on the boat - they could feel waves reflecting off islands from hundreds of miles away.  If you're counting different knowledges as technology, then that counts as well.

Also, Archimedes' mirror was basically a giant refractive laser.  There is some controversy over whether it existed, though.  But it theoretically could have.

Food technology (I think this has been suggested before):  Pickling.  Drying - fruits, vegetables, beef jerky.  Perhaps it could give it a modifier as to whether vermin will nibble on it.  Or that might have to wait for decay.
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