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[SirHoneyBadger]

Past time for me to update this thing:

The intention of this thread is to gather together all of the invention ideas, technological progress ideas, as well as a great many pre 1400s inventions that *might* actually exist in the game, list them, discuss them, and figure out both IF and HOW they might fit into the game, for the further entertainment and enjoyment of all, especially me.

The exception to this will be the two pre 1400 AD inventions most in contention:

Gunpowder/blackpowder,
Steam engines/steam power.

I'll include information and reference materials about them, provided they concern pre 1400 AD technologies only, but bitching about them being/not being in the game, or being/not being suitable for the game, will be outside of the intentions of this thread (OFF-TOPIC, or atleast partly OFF-TOPIC, in other words). 

In other words, feel perfectly free to talk about them, but please don't disrupt the thread with them, or I'll yell at you in front of your friends, make fun of your screen name, do whatever I can to make your life miserable, and in general, be a seriously square prick. 

I'll also include a list of whatever post-1400 inventions (as well as ones that seem modern, but that I either can't determine, or can't be arsed to research, the date on.) that I personally like, and personally feel *might* be fun to see in the game, with an emphasis on their being vaguely "dwarfy". 

Please note that this section of the megathread will fall entirely and exclusively under my own judgement/idle whim/drug-fueled god complex, and if you have a problem with my not including something you like, then you should have thought about that before you suggested something post-1400 AD. 

Finally: I'll try to keep a running tab on alien/magical "technology" that seems like it would fall under the aegis of this particular thread, but that probably couldn't (or at best, shouldn't) be invented by dwarfs, for balancing reasons.

I'll also include, or disclude, whatever the hell I want from the rest of the Suggestions Thread, as I see fit. 

Also, there are some extremely good, informative posts in the main body of the thread. Please give people who put a lot of time and energy into this project your courtesy and respect, and please give everyone who posts here the same respect.

---------------------------------------------------------

Technological Progress Ideas:

Some Artifacts could infact actually be new inventions--Some Artifacts could be *unique* inventions, for instance, a dwarf invents an 'Antikythera Mechanism'.

Economical and industrial growth (in the form of Guilds) might lead to new processes/reactions.

New Invention Ideas (also, specific case inventions that wouldn't/couldn't be invented outside of the confines of the DF world, or atleast outside of a fantasy universe. Adamantite alloys/giant turtle tech, for example.):

Various types of golems/automatons.

Giant Animal (turtle) Technology (chelatricity).

Pre 1400 Inventions:

Artesian Well, 1126 AD
The Compass, 12th century AD
The Hourglass, 1338 AD
The Crankshaft, pre 1206 AD
The Mechanical Clock, 13th-14th century AD
The Waterclock, between 1600-4000 BC
Horseshoes, 9th century AD
The Abacus, 2700-2300 BC
Grindstones, 834 AD (probably earlier)
Magnets, 12th century AD
Mirrors, 1180 AD
Rat traps, 1170s AD
Spectacles, 1280 AD
Tidal Mill, 7th century AD
The Treadwheel Crane, 1220s AD
The Waterhammer, 1100s or earlier AD
The Winepress, 1100s AD
The Wheelbarrow, 1170s AD
Primitive Flamethrower/Greek Fire, 1st Century AD.
The Sauna, as early as 4-5000 BC.

Here's an article on Finnish sauna-culture, that might be useful as a guide for dwarf culture, seems quite "dwarfy" to me, including the idea of saunas (and possibly other specialized areas? = Certain creatures might only "haunt" certain areas) being haunted by a "sauna-tonttu": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_sauna

The Repeating Crossbow(Chu Ku No)/repeating ballista
The Dioptra, 3rd century BC.
The Refractive Quartz Lens, around 1000 BC?
The Orrery, around the 1st century BC

(I'm thinking, as a giant ball- room-sized orrery of all the planets/moons, this could be a cool artifact, maybe created by a dwarf with access to a dioptra/refractive lens, after a fey mood?)

Essential Oils (oil of clove, rose oil, what have you), 11th century AD.
Kerosine Lamp, 9th century AD.
Screw Conveyer (application of the Screw Pump), 3rd century BC.

Ceramics/Pottery (30000BC)

Seige Engines:

Trebuchet (Traction-400BC, Counterweight-1200AD).
Catapult/Mangonel/Onager (399BC).
Ballista/Scorpion (400BC).
Battering Ram (pre 900 BC).
Assault Ladders (ladders are pre 8000BC).
Seige Tower (pre 900 BC).
Siege Hook (pre 120 BC).
Gastraphetes (pre 420BC)/Oxybeles (pre375BC).
Cheiroballistra (chariot-mounted ballista-pre 113AD)

Philosophical "Idea" Inventions:

Code of Laws, 1760 BC
Mathematics, pre 1900 BC, may be divided into individual disciplines--Calculus, for instance, is pre 1095 AD.
Measuring Systems (generic), used throughout human history
Alphabet (Runes), Egyptian Heiroglyphics, 3200 BC, Proto-Norse (Elder Futhark) Runes, 2nd Century AD.
Gambling (generic), used throughout human history.
Geometry/Architecture.
Astrology/Astronomy.
Language/Writing.
Teaching Methods.

New Architecture/Structural Engineering:

Arches (basic version is the Roman arch-could just be called an "arch" in the game. There are also the Ogive (gothic arch), horseshoe, corbelled, trapezoidal, elliptical, parabolic, and catenary arches, Vaults and Domes also fall under the "Arch" heading). Used throughout human history.
Tar Roads/Pavements, 8th century AD.
Ventillators/Ventillation, pre 12th century AD.
Hypocaust/Central Heating, 25 BC.
Architectural Aqueduct, 1st Century BC.
Giant "Sunshade" Structure. 1st Century AD.
Bricks (7500 BC)
Cement (pre 126 AD)

Parchment (pre 500 BC)
Papyrus (3000 BC)
Paper (approx 200 AD)
Vellum (pre 800AD)

Ink (Egyptian Ink 2000BC):
India Ink (aka Masi, 400 BC)
Atramentum (approx 400 AD)
Sepia (natural product of squids, almost certainly used prior to 1400AD)
Iron Gall Ink (1200AD)
Walnut Ink (natural product of walnuts, probably used prior to 1400AD, but I haven't found hard evidence.)

Reservoir Fountain Pen (953 AD)
Stylus (used since the invention of writing)

Paints (picture art-atleast 30,000BC, back to cave paintings)

Dyes (Naturally occurring, used throughout human history)

Science (the use of natural properties to "invent" new ways of doing things):
Magnetism (use of lodestones)
Long-Distance Communication (use of fire/smoke, possible use of 2 cans and a rope?)
Alchemy/Chemistry

---------------------------------------------------------
Controversial Items: For these items (steam, gunpowder, and rubber), I require either a battle they featured in, a physically existing example of the tech, and/or a pre 1400AD illustration of the device, along with an article.).

Steam Power Related Items:

Aeolipile (rocket style jet engine invented by Hero of Alexandria), 1st century

Gunpowder Related Items:

Gunpowder (pre 1044AD)
Hand Cannon (1260 AD)
"Fire Lance" (early gun/flamethrower, pre 1000AD)
Grenade (pre 100AD)

Fireworks (approx 1200AD)

Post 1400/"Modern" inventions: (These must be items that it would be reasonable-to me-to expect that a pre 1400AD society could have invented, if they'd only gotten around to doing it.)

Rubber Items (1888 AD, but was invented when the extract from a rubber tree plant was accidentally mixed with sulfer and heated by mistake):

Slingshot (pre 1900 AD)

Sunglasses
Aluminum Crossbow Bolts
Various modern metal alloys

The Lightning rod (early 1700sAD).
Could, with a limited understanding of electricity, prevent lightning-strikes, protecting buildings from damage, were lightning able to damage buildings in the game. 

The Spyglass/binoculars, could be created by combining bone (hollowed) with refractive quartz lenses.
Slingshot: Probably requires vulcanized rubber, so post 1800AD.

Crusher (Rolling Bladed Pillar Trap): Date unknown.

Polybolos (repeater ballista, existence questioned)

Weird Tech (These are items that either would have required magic/advanced, yet dubious, science to work, were legendary items of dubious historical existence, but determined-by me-to be cool enough to make the cut, or items that are just so amazing that, even if they really did exist, might as well have been Artifacts.):

Portals/devices allowing instant communication/teleportation between two different points, such as a gate to the elemental plane of Fire.

Earthquake Detection/Direction Finder.

Mass driver (Uses magnets to accelerate a object without requing any additonal force.).

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I'll elaborate on all of these categories as I have the time to do so, and as it becomes necessary/convenient.

For a different "framework", based on how these inventions could actually be fit in to the game, based on DF's setup/limitations, and the adjudged ease or difficulty of actually adding them into the game, please check out Granite26's excellent post on page 3.

For additional Forum suggestions, I'm just gonna go ahead and blatantly steal from Granite26's signature, and link to the Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist:

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=23799.0

She/He's a lot smarter than I am about how all these technical things actually work, whereas I just like to research them, so I recommend checking out the thread.

[aaaabaaccaadfda]

version v.2

Well im going to also suggest Mechaincal tech its been proven that using the turing machine idea we can build mechanical computers in dwarf fortress, i mean a whole computer no moding nothing just vanila dwarf pressure plates etc, if dwarfs can build a computer, dwarfs can do all sorts of things

heres the link for the thread
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29459.0

proposed layout should also include who was invented by

Cool inventions by anchient civilizations

Romans / Greeko Roman
The sauna (in conjuntion with).
The hypocaust ( a primitave central heating device (stoaked by a slave and warmed the entire house).
The repeating balista ( a rapid fire balistia).
The arch (Important structual technique as it was extremly strong + versatile
Giant sunshades ( used to keep gladditoral fans cool in hot weather - coliseum
Development of calculus (for advanced unit finding etc)
Dome's ( structural technique)
Crossbows 3rd century
-Gastraphetes
-(and handheld 'seige crossbow') oxybeles (intresting to have 'heavy crossbow' in game)
-a mechanical crossbow designed for horseback fighting? see below link for more information (possibly under 'wired tech')
-(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastraphetes)
siege weapons etc (Listing major points + designs)
-( a did you knoe fact) that orginaly a 'catapult' was a dart thrower and a 'balista' was what we think of as a catapult, for ease of
  referance i will use their modern terms
-The Onager (link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onager_(siege_weapon) (this is different from the DF catapult)
-(The dwarf fort catapult) The Mangonel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangonel
-Balista's (for general information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista#The_cheiroballistra.2FManuballista)
-The cherrobalista (a moblie balista mounted on a chariot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista#The_cheiroballistra.2FManuballista)
-The seige tower (fits here although carthiginian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_tower))
-The scorpion (a light version of a balista (projectile faster than balista + more range(think sniper))(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_siege_engine#Scorpios))


Babalonian / assyiran
-Battering ram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battering_ram)
+ vairations look to link for links to variations e.g. drill and pick
-First code of laws set inplace (around 1760 BC( see Code of Hammurabi))

Egyptian
Early mathmatical devolpment
Development of anchient meassuring system (Hands still in use today - Horses)

Chinese
-The repeating crossbow (Chu ko Nu( pretty sure about the spelling))
-The compass
-Fire works and primitave forms of gunpowerder
-Earthquake directional finder ( invented for a emperor of china to find which direction of the empire needed aid when struck by a earthquake)

Gunpowerder tech
-The petard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard)
-primitave bombards things like the great turkish bombard
 -turkish bombard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Turkish_Bombard)

Medieval inventions
Medieval catapults
-The Trebuchet + possiblitys on moddifing your trebuchet ie rate of fire etc (fastest known reloading of a trebuchet is 15 seconds with minimal labour! look at the link for more ideas.) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet)

Weird Tech
-Slingshots? (powerful engough to kill birds/rodents at 25m? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot)
-Siege hook (used for pulling out stones in a wall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_hook))
-tunneling /mining under walls ( not suggesting a full tunelling at all just to destroy walls etc (blocked by moat?)(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_(military))

Artifact tech/ post 1400
-a mass driver (uses magnets to accelerate a object without requing any additonal force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver))

I'll edit this list as i come up with more ideas + also add relevant links

Hey uhh honeybadger just on a sidnote i'll start full work on this thread tommorow in listing these ideas. Also could you set perameters for the catergorys of 'Weird tech' etc  and you need to update from my list man take a look under my greko-roman seige section

and also i'll get rid of were the came from tomorow and come up with broad catergorys i.e. ranged weaponry, melee weaponry, farming developments etc

One futher comment on your post dwarf fortress if you look at the rts catergory broadly and liberaly you can class it under the rts headings as well as a couple of others (simulation, rpg etc) so i'd class Dwarf fortress under a whole lot of these 'clases'. Proves to you that these catergorys are abstract as it is!

[SirHoneyBadger]

Nice! I'll add these, and also add in an "idea invention" section, for codes of laws, and calculus, and such, and an "improved architecture" section, for arches/giant sunshade.

[bjlong]

Nitpick: Calculus wasn't invented until Newton/Leibnitz.

Domes were also invented pre-1400... but I forget by whom.

[aaaabaaccaadfda]

Bklong

Basic elements of calculus were invented by the greeks true calculus it self wasn't invented till the 1600's, but they both used anchient greek basments for their ideas

Dome's were invented to the romans! how could i leave them off my list ill update now

[SirHoneyBadger]

I decided not to bother listing who invented what, unless it's pertinent to the game. That's not to take away from anyone's invention, but I just want to establish to my satisfaction whether something was invented before or after 1400, and it doesn't really matter, in terms of the DF setting, whether it was the Chinese or the Dutch or the English or the Aztecs, who invented what, because those nationalities don't exist in the DF setting.

I'm also not going to list who on the boards suggested what, because I don't consider that a function of this particular thread. I believe in giving credit where credit is due, but this is just a macro-list of ideas, and a place to discuss them, and my own ideas aren't any more or less important than anyone else's ideas, so they can all be judged in terms of their respective merit, rather than their respective origins.

[Heron TSG]

The ancient Chinese Earthquake detector was invented by Zhang Heng (A.D. 78-139) around A.D. 132. The instrument was a copper-domed urn with dragons' heads circling the outside. Each dragon head contained a bronze ball. A pendulum hung from the top of the dome, which would swing when the Earth shook. The swinging pendulum would knock a ball from the mouth of a dragon into the waiting open mouth of a bronze toad below.

The ball made a loud noise and signaled the occurrence of an earthquake. By observing which ball had been released, one could determine the direction of the earthquake's epicenter (the point on the Earth's surface directly above the quake's point of origin).

earthquake detector. 

[SirHoneyBadger]

That would definitely make a superb artifact invention. I'm really starting to like this whole idea of entirely different genres of artifacts...

[MagicJuggler]

Greek Inventions:
The Helepolis of Rhodes (A massive iron-plated siege tower designed to rain catapult fire into massed enemy formations; could move side-to-side as well as forward.
The Water Clock: (By Ctesibus)
The Air Cannon: (Same)
Screw Pump (Archimedes)

[Pixelfish]

Not a real life invention per say, however.

In old dnd 2e in the complete book of dwarves they had a trap called the "Crusher" it was effectivly a large bladed pillar rolled down an incline.

I can't see any possible downside to this.

[Mikademus]

Just thought I'd pop this in here, because it might be relevant. I am against any idea of "technology development/progression" - DF isn't an RTS game.

[Strife26]

Poker! I want to see my dwarves gamble during their parties!

[MagicJuggler]

Just thought I'd pop this in here, because it might be relevant. I am against any idea of "technology development/progression" - DF isn't an RTS game.

We're not saying we're for it. We're saying we want the ability to have the small pieces needed to build the bigger technologies needed to build the bigger technologies...etc. It's recursive baby.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Just thought I'd pop this in here, because it might be relevant. I am against any idea of "technology development/progression" - DF isn't an RTS game.

Mikademus-I never, *ever* want DF to turn into an RTS.

But simply having technological progression within the game universe won't turn DF into an RTS game. This thread is about two things only:

Adding and balancing more pre 1400s inventions into the game,

and
 
Discussing the assertion that, over time, progress might be made that would further your dwarfs' abilities to manipulate their environment in a *more* rich way than is currently in the game, in order to add more entertaining ways and paths to play the game.

Explicitely *Not* about-or condoning-the altering of the very nature of that game.

I love DF the way it is. I don't want to change anything, other than to expand on not only it's replayability, but the interest contained within playing a single game, over longer periods of time.

That's just the kind of game I like to play, and I think some other people do, and that more would, if there were more interesting things to do in later stages of the game. I realize that elements there are being planned. This is a suggestion thread for further elements.

That's the sum of it.

DF is great the way it is, and it should stay the way it is-I for one don't even use graphics packs-but if things *in* the game never ever change very much, then we're left with a game universe that is static and that-however good, and however diehard a player you may be-will only grow more and more tiresome over time, for everyone.

So absolutely NO to RTS, but fervantly YES to wanting a game that not only grows along with the player, but that models an interesting and dynamic universe that grows with the game.

[Granite26]

Check the stuff in the sig...