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[Ozarck]

any thoughts on that gnoll race's aptitudes? That looks a little ridiculous to me. Is having a bunch of skills at level 10 advantageous over having a few skills much higher?

[Graven]

It's a challenge race, pretty much. I also don't really like it, but it's an interesting idea at least. The people I've watched lategame tend to go with stealth/stabbing/hexes, but I haven't watched a full run yet.

After the failure of my Barachi, I decided to go back to the basics, and for once Okawaru seemed to agree:

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-1025-g4706f7e (tiles) character file.

Gravenous the Conqueror (Minotaur Fighter)         Turns: 53746, Time: 01:40:28

Health: 300/300    AC: 28    Str: 33    XL:     27
Magic:  35/35      EV: 27    Int:  8    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   7061       SH: 33    Dex: 13    Spells: 18/26 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis .   y - +10 broad axe {vamp, +Rage rN+++ Str-4 Stlth+}
rCold    + + .     Gourm    .   b - +0 large shield
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   c - +0 ice dragon scales
rPois    +         Spirit   .   O - +2 hat of Undesirable Species {rF+}
rElec    +         Reflect  +   V - scarf "Gusiymp" {MR+ rCorr Int+3}
rCorr    +         Harm     .   N - +0 pair of gloves of Cautesih {rPois}
MR       ++++.                  Y - +2 pair of boots of Past Mistakes {rF+ Stlth+}
Stlth    ++........             q - +6 amulet of reflection
Regen    0.6/turn               w - +5 ring of slaying
MPRegen  0.3/turn               Z - ring "Buimir" {rElec MR+ Str+4 Dex+2}

@: no status effects
A: retaliatory headbutt, hooves 1, horns 2, sense surroundings 1, robust 1,
screaming 1, subdued magic 2
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, gossamer
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage


You are on level 2 of the Realm of Zot.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and seen 55 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ice Cave, Wizlab and Desolation.

You have collected 9509 gold pieces.
You have spent 2448 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +8 broad axe "Qis Jaudo" {flame, rF++ Str-4}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 15 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to burn those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. Big, fiery blades are also staple armaments of
   hydra-hunters.
   
   It affects your strength (-4).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
 p - the +12 broad axe of Luykos {chop, rN+ MR+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 y - the +10 broad axe "Hunesaeq" (weapon) {vamp, +Rage rN+++ Str-4 Stlth+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Depths)   
   
   It inflicts no extra harm, but heals its wielder when it wounds a living
   foe.
   
   It affects your strength (-4).
   It renders you almost immune to negative energy.
   It lets you go berserk.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 I - the +1 broad axe "Kasesoe" {venom, rElec SInv}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
 L - a +9 broad axe of venom
Armour
 b - a +0 large shield (worn)
 c - +0 ice dragon scales (worn)
 N - the +0 pair of gloves of Cautesih (worn) {rPois}
   (You acquired it on level 5 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   It protects you from poison.
 O - the +2 hat of Undesirable Species (worn) {rF+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the Spider Nest)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
 U - the scarf of Dudyleu {rN+ Regen+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you in the Desolation of Salt)   
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 V - the scarf "Gusiymp" (worn) {MR+ rCorr Int+3}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
 Y - the +2 pair of boots of Past Mistakes (worn) {rF+ Stlth+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Vaults)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you more stealthy.
Jewellery
 q - a +6 amulet of reflection (around neck)
 r - an uncursed amulet of regeneration
 w - a +5 ring of slaying (left hand)
 F - the ring "Bagrenue" {rF+ Int+2}
   (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It protects you from fire.
 Z - the ring "Buimir" (right hand) {rElec MR+ Str+4 Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of dexterity]
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Wands
 o - a wand of digging (6/24)
Scrolls
 d - 20 scrolls of remove curse
 i - 25 scrolls of teleportation
 k - 6 scrolls of identify
 m - 8 scrolls of fear
 x - 2 scrolls of holy word
 C - 3 scrolls of fog
 E - 15 scrolls of recharging
 G - 11 scrolls of magic mapping
 H - 7 scrolls of enchant armour
 W - 4 scrolls of blinking
 X - a scroll of summoning
Potions
 e - 3 potions of cancellation
 g - 5 potions of agility
 h - 15 potions of curing
 l - a potion of resistance
 n - 11 potions of mutation
 v - 8 potions of ambrosia
 A - 4 potions of magic
 B - 3 potions of might
 M - 9 potions of flight
 Q - 4 potions of berserk rage
 R - 7 potions of haste
 S - 2 potions of invisibility
 T - 2 potions of heal wounds
Miscellaneous
 P - 4 phantom mirrors
Comestibles
 f - 30 bread rations
 j - 22 royal jellies
 t - 2 chunks of flesh
 u - 32 fruits
 z - 34 meat rations


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 - Level 18.0 Axes
 O Level 27 Armour
 O Level 27 Dodging
 - Level 25.0 Shields
 + Level 18.7 Invocations


You have 18 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #.........   83%         3    ####...
b - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       #.......     83%         3    ####...
c - Song of Slaying       Chrm           #.......     58%         2    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:11
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (5/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:12            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva
Lugonu

Shops:
D:5 (%[?[   D:6 !   Orc:1 *   Orc:2 :(!*[   Elf:1 }   Elf:3 (   Vaults:2 (   Vaults:3 ([[!   Depths:1 }}=(   Depths:4 %![*(

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5*
Abyss: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Trove: D:13 (give 6 scrolls of blinking)

Annotations:
Lair:4 exclusion: 4 oklob plants


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You have large cloven feet.
You passively map a small area around you.
You are robust. (+10% HP)
You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes.
Your spells are easier to cast, but less powerful.
Apparently Okawaru was upset I was so hesitant to pick him up, and gave me, listed in order of enchantments:

Code: [Select]

+1 broad axe "Kasesoe" {venom, rElec, sInv}
+7 broad axe of Regicide {vamp, +Rage rPois rN+}
+7 broad axe of the Rattle-Snake {elec, rElec Stlth+}
+8 broad axe "Qis Jaudo" {flame, rF++ Str-4}
+8 broad axe of Welfare {chop, rN+ Stlth+}
+10 broad axe "Hunesaeq" {vamp, +Rage rN+++ str-4 Stlth+}
+12 broad axe of Luykos {chop, rN+ MR+}
Plus like a hundred more non-artefact broad axes. Places I held tab without pausing with the carried vamp axe:

- Vaults:5
- Slime:5
- Elf:3
- Zot:1-5

It was fun.

 I'm currently debating whether a +12 chop broad axe compares to a +9 holy broad axe, for when I switch to TSO. Also debating armour - without any enchantments it seems the Ice Dragon Scales slightly edge out the Gold Dragon Scales, and will allow me to cast. On the other hand, GDA has a +12 max enchant as compared to +9, and will allow me to basically +++ all my resists.

[Inarius]

As a minotaur fighter, what sort of magic do you use ? (sorry if it is a dumb question, i'm still discovering most of the game...)

[Aoi]

As a minotaur fighter, what sort of magic do you use ? (sorry if it is a dumb question, i'm still discovering most of the game...)

Generally none at all, unless you're intentionally running some kind of weird build or in the late game.

MiFi are basically the masters of physical combat in DCSS and abysmally bad at magic. I suppose if you find some very good artifacts with +int on them, you might be able to cast some very low level spells acceptably, but I wouldn't take the trade off if it meant any kind of meaningful drop in my physical prowess or investment into the skill.

[Graven]

Never be afraid your question will be dumb, we love talking about Crawl, it's why the thread is 1000 pages

While Aoi is absolutely right when it comes to mid and late-game (basically 1-5 runes), even easier spells can severely limit the danger of most situations in extended (5-15 runes). Note that if you're planning on casting spells, you probably don't need the 30+ strength I have; you would want to get the minimum strength to cover the armour you're wearing (11 in the case of my Ice Dragon Scales) and dump the rest in Int. Also I'll need to first get a staff of Wizardry, but there's a ton of unID-d staves around in Elf.

The (majority of, since I'm in a hurry and can't really remember all) spells I'd consider on a general non-Trog melee champion are, in order of ease to cast:

- Apportation - always good to be able to pick up items in two turns, without physically dragging your carcass over. Incredibly more useful for Chei worshippers, since they'd have to spend 50-60 turns dragging
- Blink - allows you to escape being surrounded; it always has the potential of landing you in greater trouble, but if you're thinking about abandoning Trog this should be your first priority.
- Summon Butterflies - allows you to break Line of Sight; I never remember to use this spell, but I keep learning it on nearly every single character
- Regen - depending on your god, this is an absolute no-brainer for the Hells
- Lesser Beckoning - your very own "Get over here!"; used to be great everywhere and amazing in Tomb, nowadays just great everywhere
- Song of Slaying - even extended often has chaff you can clean up in one or two hits; this allows you a nice cushion of +Slay
- Passage of Golubria - the poor man's controlled blink; the better players I watch use it over and over and over, I myself am not really in the habit, but it's a great spell nevertheless
- Portal Projectile - another no-brainer if you're using ranged combat; allows you to safely dispose of casters and tormentors in the back lines
- Spectral Weapon - best when used with a Polearm, since you can double-hit a single enemy in a corridor, but great with any weapon at all, since at least it will damage and occasionally distract that Pan Lord you're trying to kill before he mutates you further
- Deflect Missiles - a powerful defensive spell, offset by the difficulty to cast it
- Silence - disables Liches and Mummy casters, but demons aren't really affected; if you can cast it a good spell but not something I actively work towards
- Controlled Blink - your most powerful escape option
- Tornado - not really feasible, but oh man

On my particular MiFi I'm going for three select spells:

- Lesser Beckoning
- Spectral Weapon
- Controlled Blink

[Aoi]

While Aoi is absolutely right when it comes to mid and late-game (basically 1-5 runes), even easier spells can severely limit the danger of most situations in extended (5-15 runes).

Darn it, I keep forgetting that DCSS refers to that as "extended". Since I almost exclusively aim for 15-rune games, I tend to calibrate in terms of that... thus making late game Pan/Hells. And maybe Tomb now too; I haven't been there yet in the latest version.

[Retropunch]

Yeah I always used to play MiFi and similar without any magic at all (even on non-Trog builds) and was amazed at the difference that just a few spells can do for survival - this is especially the case after miscasts were made less painful/easier to manage.

I'd go for summon butterflies and blink on pretty much every character - others are going to be pretty difficult to get off the ground unless you get some good +int or wizardry items. Blink is a good last resort if you've got cornered, but sometimes it's just good if you're not in the most suitable combat position. Summon butterflies is a brilliant way to escape, especially as MiFi aren't a slow race - even putting one butterfly between you and an enemy is basically a guaranteed escape.

All that being said, you definitely don't want to hamper your main skills at all, so don't put points into int/time into spell gain unless you've got it to spare.

[TheDarkStar]

I've never seriously tried magic with a MiFi. I just grab the heaviest armor and weapon that I can find and hold tab (and worship a god like Okawaru, Uskayaw, or TSO that supports that).

[Retropunch]

Whenever I see people talk about Minotaurs using spells it brings back fond memories.

haha amazing.

I normally don't bother until/unless I get something that boosts my int a bit, but it's amazing what a difference just Blink and Summon Butterflies makes on survival.

[Inarius]

But can't you use scroll of blink instead ?
(I have blink mutation , too)
And Qazlal as a god, which seems good to me. What do you think ?

[Arcvasti]

As a minotaur fighter, what sort of magic do you use ? (sorry if it is a dumb question, i'm still discovering most of the game...)

Blink/Summon Butterflies and even then, only if I'm low on blink scrolls. In extended you'd want more, but those two are cheap and very useful for escaping.

[Aoi]

Also I've never tried using Lesser Beckoning, but the selling of it as allowing me to be Scorpion certainly appeals. I may have to try it out.

Statueform trolls of Chei.

[TheDarkStar]

I found a spriggan baker in the upper dungeon and killed him as normal. However, rather than finding bread hidden away, I found a "baked spriggan corpse". Apparently there are cannibal spriggans?

[RedWarrior0]

Maybe it was just a horrible baking accident.

[kilakan]

naw he just od'ed on that dank kush.