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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.  (Read 1680884 times)

Ozarck

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14190 on: April 19, 2017, 10:38:07 pm »

Good suggestions. MiFi of Okawaru fits my playstyle - I've won with HOFi of Oka and DDFi of Mahkleb so far.

What advantage does kobold of Dith have over Spriggan of Dith?

frostshotgg

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14191 on: April 20, 2017, 12:28:02 am »

The general wisdom I've heard regarding dith is that he's better on a character whose primary method of handling encounters isn't already stealth. He should give you extra options, not just make you better at what you already do. You could try just going MiFi or whatever and just go dith instead of oka and see how that feels.
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Graven

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14192 on: April 20, 2017, 02:55:34 pm »

I'll probably give the Abyss a quick try, but without regen I'm relatively certain it's not going to go well, so I might have to go for Lair runes after all. I could swap to TSO and do Crypt->Tomb->Pan, but... eh

Do it. Don't pussy out and go in the Lair you scrub, play like a man :P

Also, if you can manage to drum up enough XP to get Silence castable (difficult in your armor, admittedly) you might be able to pull off Tomb without changing to TSO.

Anyway, it'll be an extremely impressive feat if you manage it, however you do it.

Nope. I slapped on a Troll armour for regen, learned Regen spell, and Abyss:3 ground me up in a few hundred turns. I really should've gone TSO for the healing, it's pretty hard even with good equip and mine was kind of balls.

edit: To make this post at least somewhat useful for people.

Code: [Select]
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-1025-g4706f7e (tiles) character file.

406634 Gravenous the Minotaur Blade (level 22, -1/168 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Gladiator on Apr 20, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Okawaru.
             Slain by a profane servitor
             ... wielding a +2 whip
              (7 damage)
             ... on level 3 of the Abyss.
             The game lasted 01:32:32 (49755 turns).

Gravenous the Minotaur Blade (Minotaur Gladiator)  Turns: 49755, Time: 01:32:32

Health: -1/168     AC: 22    Str: 24      XL:     22   Next: 90%
Magic:  9/27       EV: 24    Int:  9 (12) God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   2403       SH:  0    Dex: 13      Spells: 12/24 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis .   d - +6 triple sword {drain, +Inv rF+ rC+ Dex+3}
rCold    + . .     Gourm    +   (shield currently unavailable)
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   y - +0 troll leather armour
rPois    .         Spirit   .   L - +1 hat {MR+}
rElec    +         Reflect  .   S - +1 cloak {MR+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   W - +3 pair of gloves "Nezismyc" {Stlth+}
MR       ++++.     Clarity  +   t - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth    ++........             p - amulet "Mumar" {Gourm rElec MR+ Str+2}
Regen    1.8/turn               P - +5 ring of slaying
MPRegen  0.2/turn               v - ring of wizardry

@: regenerating (expiring), wreathed by umbra, quick
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2, thin metallic scales 1, blurry vision 1,
clarity, clumsy 1, frail 2, screaming 2
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You were on level 3 of the Abyss.
You worshipped Okawaru.
Okawaru was exalted by your worship.
You were very full.

You visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and saw 25 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 2 times.

You collected 4678 gold pieces.
You spent 2275 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 d - the +6 triple sword of Gukots (weapon) {drain, +Inv rF+ rC+ Dex+3}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Depths)   
   
   A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 k - a +0 great sword of flaming
 C - a +4 eudemon blade of holy wrath
 K - a +5 triple sword of electrocution
Armour
 l - +0 gold dragon scales
 m - the +0 pair of boots "Beyxzug" {rPois Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Depths)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It protects you from poison.
 o - the +1 pair of gloves of Vexation {rElec Str+4 Int+3, unknown}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Abyss)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 t - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 y - a +0 troll leather armour (worn)
 E - the -4 pair of gloves of the Gravedigger {rF++}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It greatly protects you from fire.
 L - a +1 hat of magic resistance (worn)
 Q - +7 pearl dragon scales
 S - a +1 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 V - a +2 crystal plate armour
 W - the +3 pair of gloves "Nezismyc" (worn) {Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)   
   
   It makes you more stealthy.
Jewellery
 p - the amulet "Mumar" (around neck) {Gourm rElec MR+ Str+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [amulet of the gourmand]
   
   It allows you to eat raw meat even when not hungry.
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 v - a ring of wizardry (right hand)
 B - an uncursed ring of see invisible {unknown}
 P - a +5 ring of slaying (left hand)
 T - the ring of Zetitih {rElec Str-5 Int+6 SInv}
   (You took it off a yaktaur on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of see invisible]
   
   It affects your strength (-5).
   It affects your intelligence (+6).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
 U - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
Wands
 r - a wand of digging (8/24)
 x - a wand of iceblast (2/15)
 I - a wand of disintegration (7/24)
 M - a wand of lightning (7/15)
Scrolls
 b - 2 scrolls of fear
 c - 2 scrolls of identify
 h - a scroll of recharging
 i - 9 scrolls of amnesia
 s - 17 scrolls of remove curse
 w - 6 scrolls of magic mapping
 A - a scroll of fog
 H - a scroll of silence
Potions
 a - a potion of agility
 e - 4 potions of mutation
 g - 5 potions of flight
 j - 3 potions of curing
 u - 2 potions of magic
 D - 3 potions of brilliance
 F - 2 potions of haste
 G - 5 potions of ambrosia
 J - a potion of resistance
 R - 4 potions of lignification
Miscellaneous
 X - 2 phantom mirrors
Comestibles
 f - 8 bread rations
 n - 13 royal jellies
 q - 8 meat rations
 z - 48 fruits


   Skills:
 - Level 20.9 Fighting
 - Level 26.1 Long Blades
 - Level 2.0 Throwing
 - Level 20.1 Armour
 - Level 20.1 Dodging
 - Level 1.6 Spellcasting
 * Level 6.6 Charms
 - Level 9.2 Invocations


You had 12 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       #.......     12%         3    ####...
b - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       #.........   99%         6    #######
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #.........   12%         3    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (0/6) D:11
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Depths (5/5) D:15
    Zot (0/5) Depths:5   
Vaults: D:13-14     

Altars:
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Uskayaw
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:9 (   Orc:2 }[[!=   Elf:1 (   Elf:2 =}}   Elf:3 [   Depths:1 :

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:1 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:3 Depths:4
Ziggurat: Depths:3

Annotations:
D:11 exclusion: oklob plant
D:12 Gravenous's ghost, journeyman MiGl


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You are partially covered in thin metallic scales. (AC +2)
Scrolls take you a little longer to read.
You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.
You are clumsy. (Dex -2)
You are very frail. (-20% HP)
You sometimes yell uncontrollably at your foes.


Message History

You miss the profane servitor.
You headbutt the profane servitor, but do no damage.
The profane servitor hits you but does no damage.
The profane servitor barely misses you.
You completely miss the profane servitor.
The profane servitor hits you with an enchanted whip!!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The profane servitor draws strength from your injuries!
The profane servitor barely misses you.
You hit the profane servitor but do no damage.
The profane servitor hits you with an enchanted whip!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The profane servitor draws strength from your injuries!
The profane servitor barely misses you.
You closely miss the profane servitor.
The profane servitor hits you with an enchanted whip.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The profane servitor draws strength from your injuries!
The profane servitor hits you with an enchanted whip!
You die...

Things I feel I did wrong, from easiest to hardest to fix:

- Should've gone TSO, as there are a decent amount of demons in Abyss, and you can get several stars of piety in Abyss 1-2 without much risk
- Should not have used the troll armour. It was a 0.4 HP per turn, according to the character screen - for reference, basic was 0.5, and the spell adds 1.0
- Should not have used the Draining sword. I'm pretty certain it would've been better to swap to the elec blade and just changed the rings around
- Could have potentially gone to Pan first. It could be easier, since it has limited enemies per level, rather than the endless onslaught of Abyss
- Could have gone TSO -> Hells. I had the options of getting at least ++ in a single resist if I reshuffled my jewellery

Oh well, live and learn.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 03:27:47 pm by Graven »
Logged
What a strange and beautiful world I beheld, but dangerous too, I was certain. And I was friendless and homeless. And so I prayed.
"Hear me, exalted spirits. Hear me be you gods or devils, ye who hold dominion here. I am a wizard without a home. I am a wanderer seeking refuge."

Graven

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14193 on: April 20, 2017, 06:56:00 pm »

Well,

Code: [Select]
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-1025-g4706f7e (tiles) character file.

Gravenous the Impregnable (Minotaur Hunter)        Turns: 40818, Time: 01:14:12

Health: 195/195    AC: 27    Str: 23    XL:     20   Next: 46%
Magic:  34/34      EV: 19    Int: 14    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   1886       SH:  0    Dex: 13    Spells: 14/19 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   J - +8 longbow {velocity, rF+ rC+ rN+ Int+2}
rCold    + + .     Gourm    .   (shield currently unavailable)
rNeg     + . .     Faith    .   G - +0 fire dragon scales
rPois    .         Spirit   .   m - +2 hat {MR+}
rElec    +         Reflect  .   q - +2 cloak of the Thief {+Fog Slay-2 SInv Stlth+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   M - +2 pair of gloves {archery}
MR       +++..                  b - +0 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Stlth    ++++......             u - amulet of magic regeneration
Regen    0.5/turn               g - ring "Plog" {rElec rC+ Str+3 Int-2 Stlth+}
MPRegen  0.4/turn               c - ring "Ucui" {rC+ MR+ MP+9 Str+2 Stlth+}

@: studying Charms
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Fog


You are on level 3 of the Elven Halls.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 26 of its levels.

You have collected 4409 gold pieces.
You have spent 2523 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 J - the +8 longbow "Death Rattle" (weapon) {velocity, rF+ rC+ rN+ Int+2}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Depths)   
   
   Any arrow fired from it inflicts extra damage.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 T - a +4 longbow of freezing
 W - the +9 longbow "Weut" {freeze, rN+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   It causes projectiles fired from it to freeze those they strike, causing
   extra injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against
   particularly susceptible opponents. They can also slow down cold-blooded
   creatures.
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
Missiles
 d - 1008 arrows (quivered)
 x - 3 throwing nets
Armour
 b - a +0 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
 m - a +2 hat of magic resistance (worn)
 q - the +2 cloak of the Thief (worn) {+Fog Slay-2 SInv Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (-2).
   It lets you see invisible.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 w - a scarf of repulsion
 A - the scarf of the Peculiar Moons {rF+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
 G - +0 fire dragon scales (worn)
 M - a +2 pair of gloves of archery (worn)
 X - a +1 cloak of magic resistance
 Y - +0 gold dragon scales
Jewellery
 c - the ring "Ucui" (right hand) {rC+ MR+ MP+9 Str+2 Stlth+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
   It makes you more stealthy.
 g - the ring "Plog" (left hand) {rElec rC+ Str+3 Int-2 Stlth+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 k - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 l - a +6 ring of intelligence
 u - an amulet of magic regeneration (around neck)
 F - a ring of protection from fire
Wands
 p - a wand of iceblast (?/15)
 t - a wand of clouds (?/9)
 v - a wand of digging (?/24)
 K - a wand of disintegration (?/24) {zapped: 1}
 U - a wand of iceblast (?/15) {zapped: 7}
Scrolls
 a - 5 scrolls of enchant armour
 i - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 o - 5 scrolls of recharging
 y - 10 scrolls of identify
 z - 12 scrolls of remove curse
 B - 11 scrolls of teleportation
 E - a scroll of fog
 I - 4 scrolls of fear
 N - a scroll of blinking
 Q - 4 scrolls of amnesia
 S - a scroll of summoning
Potions
 e - a potion of resistance
 n - 5 potions of flight
 r - 4 potions of brilliance
 s - 2 potions of invisibility
 D - 4 potions of heal wounds
 L - 6 potions of agility
 P - a potion of cancellation
 R - 3 potions of mutation
 V - 3 potions of curing
 Z - a potion of haste
Books
 C - a manual of Charms
 H - a book of Enchantments   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Cause Fear                   Hexes                         4
    b - Yara's Violent Unravelling   Hexes/Transmutation           5
    c - Silence                      Hexes/Air                     5
    d - Deflect Missiles             Charms/Air                    6
    e - Discord                      Hexes                         8
 O - Ableabb's Reference Book on Ensnaring Aid
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Confusing Touch              Hexes                         1
    b - Swiftness                    Charms/Air                    2
    c - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    d - Ensorcelled Hibernation      Hexes/Ice                     2
    e - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
    f - Fulminant Prism              Conjuration/Hexes             4
    g - Cause Fear                   Hexes                         4
Comestibles
 f - 15 bread rations
 h - 20 fruits
 j - 11 meat rations


   Skills:
 - Level 20.4 Fighting
 - Level 20.2 Bows
 - Level 21.3 Armour
 * Level 16.5 Dodging
 - Level 0.7 Stealth
 + Level 5.8 Charms
 - Level 8.2 Invocations


You have 14 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #.........   43%         3    ####...
b - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          63%         2    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (0/6) D:9
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:13
 Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (0/5) Depths:5   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:13 }   Orc:2 [[((   Elf:1 =   Depths:1 =}=

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:1
Ziggurat: Depths:5

Annotations:
Elf:2 3 runed doors
Depths:1 30 runed doors
Depths:3 exclusion: 2 orange crystal statues


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.

After a few more tries several interesting conclusions have been reached:

- Resistances are a must, but raw HP is also needed; Stone giants, Yaktaurs, Meliae and hasted Trolls are not really avoidable in the long run unless a lot of Stealth is trained.
- While generally better, I found Crossbows a lot worse than Bows for the Dungeon->Depths run; good Crossbows are rarer, and they are slower, which means more chances of 50 Very Ugly Things merrily gurgling around your un-resistant face
- The early game is also easier with bows, in that shortbows can basically be ignored (similar to hand crossbows), but Longbows and arrows are a lot more common than Arbalests and bolts. Unless you have 20 Bows skill, in which case at least 3 shops will have randart arbalests/Triple Crossbows.
- Gloves of archery are pretty nice
- Going for ranged as your only offensive skill is really tedious early game. And midgame.
- The total removal of useful wands also has a significant effect, since you can't reliably escape come lategame. Scrolls are few and far inbetween, so you have to be pretty stingy.

The jump from Dungeon to Depths gets me every time. It is so, so much more dangerous. You need to kite basically every enemy, since if you let a lot aggro it's a neverending merry-go-round of Giants, Very Ugly Things and Hell Knights around your face. There are so many fast enemies, and enough Troll Earth Mages to always be threatened with surrounding. The gosh darn stupid Rune lock also prevents you from getting the much easier experience and loot from Vaults 1-4. I'm currently entering Depths at around Xlvl 15, which is way too early to be fighting Juggernauts.

Also I'm still not sure what to do after clearing Depths, and I have the sneaky suspicion trying the same thing as last game will most likely end the same way too.

I'm thinking either:
A) Get TSO, chill in the smaller Abysses until I can bless my longbow
B) Get TSO, run around Pan until I can bless my longbow

Really not sure how Pan compares to the hells for the coveted "Easier Extended First Rune" award.
Logged
What a strange and beautiful world I beheld, but dangerous too, I was certain. And I was friendless and homeless. And so I prayed.
"Hear me, exalted spirits. Hear me be you gods or devils, ye who hold dominion here. I am a wizard without a home. I am a wanderer seeking refuge."

Not good with names

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14194 on: April 20, 2017, 07:44:08 pm »

One of my better attempts since the tournament, Don't un-equip your vampire battleaxe is the lesson here.

I got banished to the abyss in Vaults 5 and decided to take the layup rune (I know people hate the abyss but besides the tedium of manual navigation it's by far the easiest rune in the game), thought that the Holy would be marginally better.  Of course, then I tried to fight through the dire elephant island to get that rune while forgetting to re-equip my Vamp axe.  Cue why I haz no HP and I end up ninja'ing it (Evocable invisible is tits).  Since I had an open portal back out nearby I run for that and back into the Vault: 5 fracas.  I hack 3-4 times with my axe expecting the Vamp to put me back in business HP-wise, only to get dropped to 1 HP.  Surprisingly a fear scroll buys me enough time to move then blink away, only to face first into an iron shot from an elf.

In short, Boo.  MiBe with fully enchanted Vampiric Battleaxe is so powerful it can only come down to user error.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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naturesreach

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14195 on: April 20, 2017, 08:00:29 pm »

One of my better attempts since the tournament, Don't un-equip your vampire battleaxe is the lesson here.

I got banished to the abyss in Vaults 5 and decided to take the layup rune (I know people hate the abyss but besides the tedium of manual navigation it's by far the easiest rune in the game), thought that the Holy would be marginally better.  Of course, then I tried to fight through the dire elephant island to get that rune while forgetting to re-equip my Vamp axe.  Cue why I haz no HP and I end up ninja'ing it (Evocable invisible is tits).  Since I had an open portal back out nearby I run for that and back into the Vault: 5 fracas.  I hack 3-4 times with my axe expecting the Vamp to put me back in business HP-wise, only to get dropped to 1 HP.  Surprisingly a fear scroll buys me enough time to move then blink away, only to face first into an iron shot from an elf.

In short, Boo.  MiBe with fully enchanted Vampiric Battleaxe is so powerful it can only come down to user error.


If you think MiBe with enchanged Vampiric Battleaxe is powerful, try DD with a vampiric battleaxe. I literally went through Vault1-5 just pressing the tab key and 'o'. I actually got so bored with the character, I just quit it.
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Antioch

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14196 on: April 21, 2017, 03:43:05 am »

One of my better attempts since the tournament, Don't un-equip your vampire battleaxe is the lesson here.

I got banished to the abyss in Vaults 5 and decided to take the layup rune (I know people hate the abyss but besides the tedium of manual navigation it's by far the easiest rune in the game), thought that the Holy would be marginally better.  Of course, then I tried to fight through the dire elephant island to get that rune while forgetting to re-equip my Vamp axe.  Cue why I haz no HP and I end up ninja'ing it (Evocable invisible is tits).  Since I had an open portal back out nearby I run for that and back into the Vault: 5 fracas.  I hack 3-4 times with my axe expecting the Vamp to put me back in business HP-wise, only to get dropped to 1 HP.  Surprisingly a fear scroll buys me enough time to move then blink away, only to face first into an iron shot from an elf.

In short, Boo.  MiBe with fully enchanted Vampiric Battleaxe is so powerful it can only come down to user error.



How difficult abyss is really depends on if you are a melee dude or a spellcaster. I have had even high lvl spellcasters that had difficulty in the abyss because it is just so hard to keep your mana up over time.
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naturesreach

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14197 on: April 21, 2017, 08:12:17 am »

One of my better attempts since the tournament, Don't un-equip your vampire battleaxe is the lesson here.

I got banished to the abyss in Vaults 5 and decided to take the layup rune (I know people hate the abyss but besides the tedium of manual navigation it's by far the easiest rune in the game), thought that the Holy would be marginally better.  Of course, then I tried to fight through the dire elephant island to get that rune while forgetting to re-equip my Vamp axe.  Cue why I haz no HP and I end up ninja'ing it (Evocable invisible is tits).  Since I had an open portal back out nearby I run for that and back into the Vault: 5 fracas.  I hack 3-4 times with my axe expecting the Vamp to put me back in business HP-wise, only to get dropped to 1 HP.  Surprisingly a fear scroll buys me enough time to move then blink away, only to face first into an iron shot from an elf.

In short, Boo.  MiBe with fully enchanted Vampiric Battleaxe is so powerful it can only come down to user error.



How difficult abyss is really depends on if you are a melee dude or a spellcaster. I have had even high lvl spellcasters that had difficulty in the abyss because it is just so hard to keep your mana up over time.

Were you follower of TSO or Vehumet? As long as I had a spellcaster with some decent melee aptitudes (~10) and used spells only on large masses, I didn't have too much problem.

Pure spellcaster would be difficult though.
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Retropunch

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14198 on: April 21, 2017, 01:08:25 pm »

Most of the problem for spellcasters in abyss is that the time when they're chucked in there they usually don't have a really reliable one/two shot kill spell and get most of their kills through a mana eating combo. Also it's amazing how many spellcasters I've seen who don't quickly get something they can channel for more mana.
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naturesreach

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14199 on: April 21, 2017, 02:45:10 pm »

Most of the problem for spellcasters in abyss is that the time when they're chucked in there they usually don't have a really reliable one/two shot kill spell and get most of their kills through a mana eating combo. Also it's amazing how many spellcasters I've seen who don't quickly get something they can channel for more mana.

I think that is the problem most characters face in the Abyss is that they get sent too early.  :P

What do you recommend for mana channelling? Crystal ball of energy always gets me killed. Staff of energy unless with high evo seems to take too many turns to use when you should be running away from stuff.
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Inarius

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14200 on: April 21, 2017, 04:04:50 pm »

I think I underestimated the difficulty of this game.

THIS IS DAMN HARD.
You have to be really really observing and be careful all the time, even when it "seems" easy.
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14201 on: April 21, 2017, 06:03:54 pm »

I think I underestimated the difficulty of this game.

I'm not sure what an average winrate is (mine is probably around 0.1%), but even in tournaments WRs don't get much above 1% iirc.
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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14202 on: April 21, 2017, 10:47:51 pm »

I've been playing a GrEE and it's been going pretty well. I've had some really lucky item generation (tons of resists and a Book of Earth), but I'd like some advice because I don't get casters this far most of the time. So far, I've cleared the Dungeon, Lair, and Orc:

Code: [Select]
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0 (tiles) character file.

Guoh the Earth Mage (Gargoyle Earth Elementalist)  Turns: 33766, Time: 01:04:15

Health: 101/101    AC: 33    Str: 13    XL:     16   Next: 50%
Magic:  39/39      EV: 10    Int: 29    God:    Vehumet [*****.]
Gold:   1302       SH:  0    Dex: 12    Spells: 5 memorised, 13 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    t - +3 morningstar (protect)
rCold  + + +      Gourm    .    O - +4 ring mail "Quhoh" {Dex+2}
rNeg   + + .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  8          Spirit   .    u - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  +          Reflect  .    B - +0 cloak "Icujol" {+Inv rF+ rC++ Int+4}
rCorr  .          Harm     .    Y - +2 pair of gloves of the Empire {rElec SInv}
MR     +....                    Q - +5 pair of boots of Greed {rF+ rC+}
Stlth  +.........               w - amulet of the Messenger {RegenMP rF+ rN+}
                                H - ring of wizardry
                                q - ring of magical power

@: flying
A: big wings, negative energy resistance 1, electricity resistance, unbreathing,
petrification resistance, rot immunity, subdued magic 1, AC +11
a: Stop Flying, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 24 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Sewer and Ossuary.

You have collected 2866 gold pieces.
You have spent 1564 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 k - the +7 trident "Voss" {flame, rElec rF+ rN+ Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to burn those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 t - a +3 morningstar of protection (weapon)
Missiles
 e - 95 stones (quivered)
Armour
 m - a +4 scale mail of magic resistance
 u - a +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 x - a +4 scale mail of fire resistance
 B - the +0 cloak "Icujol" (worn) {+Inv rF+ rC++ Int+4}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 13 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from fire.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 I - the +3 scale mail of the Six Suns {*Contam +Blink rElec rN++}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It greatly protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you blink.
   It causes magical contamination when unequipped.
 O - the +4 ring mail "Quhoh" (worn) {Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 P - a shield
 Q - the +5 pair of boots of Greed (worn) {rF+ rC+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
 W - a +1 troll leather armour
 Y - the +2 pair of gloves of the Empire (worn) {rElec SInv}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
Jewellery
 q - a ring of magical power (left hand)
 w - the amulet of the Messenger (around neck) {RegenMP rF+ rN+}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   [amulet of magic regeneration]
   
   It increases your magic regeneration.
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 G - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 H - a ring of wizardry (right hand)
 N - a twisted brass amulet
 S - a dented jasper amulet
 V - an uncursed ring of ice
Wands
 c - a wand of heal wounds (4/9)
 R - a wand of lightning
 U - a wand of digging {zapped: 5}
Scrolls
 b - a scroll of recharging
 j - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
 n - a scroll of blinking
 s - 8 scrolls of teleportation
 y - 4 scrolls of fear
 L - 6 scrolls of fog
 M - 13 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 i - 13 potions of curing
 l - 3 potions of might
 o - 2 potions of cure mutation
 p - 4 potions of agility
 A - 2 potions of flight
 D - 3 potions of brilliance
 E - a potion of resistance
 F - 2 potions of ambrosia
 K - 3 potions of lignification
 T - 3 potions of mutation
Miscellaneous
 J - a phantom mirror
Comestibles
 a - 17 meat rations
 d - 13 bread rations
 f - 5 beef jerkies
 g - 30 fruits
 h - 2 chunks of flesh
 r - 6 slices of pizza
 v - 8 royal jellies


   Skills:
 * Level 11.6 Fighting
 * Level 10.4 Maces & Flails
 - Level 1.5 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 + Level 10.0 Spellcasting
 + Level 13.9 Conjurations
   Level 0.7 Transmutations
 * Level 5.7 Fire Magic
 + Level 20.0 Earth Magic


You have 13 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
b - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       0%          3    None
c - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #######...   1%          5    ###....
d - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          26%         7    ######.
e - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      ######....   1%          6    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (6/6) D:8
  Swamp (0/4) Lair:4       Spider (0/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:11            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:14
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 ![[*   D:13 [%   D:15 [%}%   Orc:2 [(=*

Annotations:
D:3 Guoh's ghost, amateur DDFi


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
Your stone body is resilient. (AC +11)
You are immune to poison.
Your large and strong wings let you fly indefinitely.
You resist negative energy. (rN+)
You are resistant to electric shocks. (rElec)
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.
Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful.

-snip-

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------+-----
Earth Magic    |  4  5        6  7  8 10 12 13 15 16 17 19    20 | 20.0
Spellcasting   |           3     4     5  7                 9 10 | 10.0
Conjurations   |              1     2  4  6  7  9 10 12 13       | 13.9
Maces & Flails |                             2  4  6  8  9 10    | 10.4
Fighting       |                             2  4  7  8 10 11    | 11.6
Fire Magic     |                                         2  4  5 |  5.7
Dodging        |                                                 |  1.5
Stealth        |                                                 |  2.1
Transmutations |                                                 |  0.7

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Flail             |       |     6 |    33 |    42 |       |       ||    81
       Unarmed           |       |       |     2 |       |       |       ||     2
       Morningstar       |       |       |       |    20 |   251 |    83 ||   354
 Cast: Sandblast         |    36 |    99 |    96 |       |       |       ||   231
       Stone Arrow       |       |     4 |   124 |   295 |   576 |   127 ||  1126
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |    13 |    34 |   105 |    44 ||   196
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |    65 |    76 ||   141
 Abil: Fly               |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |       ||     2
  Use: Scroll            |     7 |     7 |    12 |     5 |    12 |     2 ||    45
       Potion            |       |       |     2 |       |     9 |     4 ||    15
 Stab: Distracted        |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Sleeping          |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |     8 |    16 |    30 |    63 |    33 ||   151
       Fruit             |       |       |     1 |       |     5 |     3 ||     9
       Meat ration       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |     1 |     6 |     4 ||    11
       Pizza             |       |       |       |       |     3 |       ||     3
Armor: Robe              |     6 |    21 |    64 |    40 |       |       ||   131
       Scale mail        |       |       |       |   131 |   652 |       ||   783
       Troll leather arm |       |       |       |    15 |       |       ||    15
       Ring mail         |       |       |       |       |   236 |   224 ||   460
Dodge: Dodged            |    16 |    41 |    99 |   130 |   432 |   163 ||   881

What should I do in terms of skill leveling? What should I keep in mind as I do my first rune branch? Is there anything silly I'm doing?
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14203 on: April 22, 2017, 08:36:33 am »

Level Shields and grab a buckler. If one hasn't already dropped, assuming you're careful you should be able to dip into Elf to get one (particularly if you use invisibility), even despite your poor MR.

Yeah, iirc lots of bucklers dropped in Lair:6.

Also, level Dodging until you get at least a couple more EV. At 1.5, the XP requirement to get some gains is still very low, and the difference between 10 and 12 EV could save you from an ogre's club at a crucial point later.

Right, I always forget about dodging. Would armor also be reasonable to train up a bit (since Gargoyles have a reasonable aptitude for it)?

Failing that, get at least level 6 or so in Evocations, it'll help you later on (though I'm surprised you don't have more wands.

I've never really... used Invocations. Aside from using discs of storms in sprint games or trying to train up a silly MiFi that wields a staff of earth, I don't think I've even turned it on for training in any game.

Did you run out of inventory slots? If so, why are you carrying around potions of Mutation and so much permafood?

1. Yes 2. I already stashed my other useless potions but forgot about Mutation 3. Alright, I'll stash a lot of it.

Either branch should be fine - poison immunity plus flying make Swamp and Spider pretty decent for Gargoyles. Just watch out for Orbs of Destruction (again, shields will help you here).

Alright. I'll probably do spider first and then come back for Swamp later after going through some of Vault.

Also, how are you out of scrolls of ID? Are you literally identifying every potion before you drink it?

...yes? I thought that's how it was supposed to go?
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Arcvasti

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14204 on: April 22, 2017, 09:58:04 am »

Yeah, your Dodging is very very low, as is your Armour. Since you've got Iron Shot at 1%, I'd train only those two skills until 15ish for Dodging and 11 for Armour. Then I'd recommend learning more spells, since you have a bunch of empty slots. Bolt of Fire/Magma have highly useful shapes and neither of them require more then 5-6 points of Fire Magic investment. The usual cheap utility spells like Blink, Summon Butterflies and Repel Missiles are as good as always and require little to no investment. I'd start looking for either a demon whip of elec/drain or a staff of earth since your current melee weapons are kind of wimpy. Evocations is quite useful, but Id only train it up to ~10ish on a conjurations specialist. The most useful wands are Acid[Does good damage in a line and its non-elemental] and Iceblast[Partially irresistable, undodgeable and in a good shape]. I'd probably also keep around a Digging wand for quick escapes[Although you might want to learn Passwall instead, since you're an EE] and a Lightning wand. The biggest draw of Evocations are the miscellaneous evocables like boxes of beasts and fans of gales. All of those are pretty robust panic buttons that can easily save your stony skin if you're in a bad situation.
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