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[Arcvasti]

A question on dungeon sprints. Are these things meant to be only beatable with a certain race and class, after having knowledge of all the rooms beforehand?

Depends. Ziggurat Sprint is my favourite one, and I've beaten it with several different tactics. Meatsprint is its own thing, but some races have big advantages there and Warper is the only class that helps even remotely. The others... you could probably use most of the big archetypes to win. Warrior with Trog, Mage with Sif[Since she has absurd piety gains in Sprint] or Stabber with Dith. I will say that being able to do way more damage then your level should let you is generally a requirement. Zerking, high-level spell/invocations or stabbing are the best ways of doing that.

[heydude6]

I was playing a draconian conjurer and things got... interesting (look at the inventory).

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1 (tiles) character file.

Priscilla the Conjurer (DrCj)                      Turns: 22298, Time: 01:49:07

HP  81/81        AC 13     Str 14      XL: 12   Next: 46%
MP  28/28        EV 19     Int 26      God: Vehumet [*****.]
Gold 740         SH  0     Dex 16      Spells:  9 memorised,  1 level left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     E - +6,+3 dire flail
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     (armour unavailable)
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     (no shield)
rPois  +         rCorr    +     (helmet restricted)
rElec  .         rRot     .     T - +0 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     z - +1 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     y - +1 pair of boots of Dim Light {Dam+5}
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     K - cursed amulet of resist corrosion
MR     .....                    X - ring "Jitt" {Str+4 Dex+4 Int+5}
                                r - +4,+6 ring of slaying

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: breathe sticky flames, unfitting armour, cold resistance 1, poison
resistance, AC +8
a: Breathe Sticky Flame, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 15 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer.

You have collected 780 gold pieces.
You have spent 40 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 k - a +0,+0 dagger
 m - a +0 blowgun
 D - a +0,+0 spear
 E - a +6,+3 dire flail (weapon)
Missiles
 j - 69 poisoned needles
 s - 2 needles of slowing
 w - 5 needles of paralysis
Armour
 y - the +1 pair of boots of Dim Light (worn) {Dam+5}
   (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+5).
 z - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 T - a +0 cloak (worn)
 V - a +1 large shield of reflection
Magical devices
 h - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 o - a wand of lightning
 B - a wand of flame {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 b - 4 bread rations
 n - a choko
 t - an apricot
 u - 4 meat rations
 A - a lychee
 F - a pear
 I - 3 beef jerkies
 N - 7 cheeses
 Q - a royal jelly
Scrolls
 g - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 i - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 v - a scroll of recharging
 C - 3 scrolls of fog
 G - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 J - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 M - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 O - a scroll of fear
 R - 4 scrolls of enchant weapon II
 W - a scroll of enchant weapon III
 Y - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
Jewellery
 r - a +4,+6 ring of slaying (left hand)
 K - a cursed amulet of resist corrosion (around neck)
 X - the ring "Jitt" (right hand) {Str+4 Dex+4 Int+5}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of intelligence]
   It affects your intelligence (+5).
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
Potions
 a - a potion of heal wounds
 d - 4 potions of flight
 e - 8 potions of curing
 f - a potion of haste
 l - 4 potions of brilliance
 q - 4 potions of restore abilities
 H - 2 potions of lignification
 P - a potion of might
 S - 2 potions of agility
 U - 2 potions of berserk rage
Books
 c - a book of Conjurations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Magic Dart                        Conjuration                  1
   *Searing Ray                       Conjuration                  2
   *Dazzling Spray                    Conjuration/Hexes            3
   *Fulminant Prism                   Conjuration/Hexes            4
   *Iskenderun's Mystic Blast         Conjuration                  4
   Iskenderun's Battlesphere          Conjuration/Charms           5
 p - a book of Fire   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Fire Brand                         Charms/Fire                  2
   Ignite Poison                      Fire/Transmutation           5
   *Fireball                          Conjuration/Fire             5
   Bolt of Fire                       Conjuration/Fire             6
   *Delayed Fireball                  Conjuration/Fire             7
   Ring of Flames                     Charms/Fire                  7
 x - a book of Spatial Translocations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Apportation                        Translocation                1
   *Blink                             Translocation                2
   Shroud of Golubria                 Charms/Translocation         2
   Portal Projectile                  Translocation                3
   Teleport Other                     Translocation                3
   Passage of Golubria                Translocation                4
Miscellaneous
 L - a crystal ball of energy


   Skills:
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 3.0 Stealth
 - Level 8.4 Spellcasting
 - Level 12.4 Conjurations
 - Level 7.2 Hexes
 + Level 3.2 Fire Magic
   Level 3.6 Ice Magic


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
b - Searing Ray           Conj           ######       1%          2    None
c - Dazzling Spray        Conj/Hex       ######..     1%          3    None
d - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           ######..     1%          4    ##.....
e - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          10%         2    None
f - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ####....     1%          3    None
g - Fulminant Prism       Conj/Hex       ######....   1%          4    ##.....
h - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          75%         7    #######
i - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ######....   2%          5    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (11/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (0/4) D:9
   Lair (3/8) D:11         Shoals (0/5) Lair:3     
 Swamp: Lair:3-6     Snake: Lair:3-6    Spider: Lair:3-6   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:5 %   D:7 *


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can spit globs of burning liquid.
You can ignite nearby creatures when you spit burning liquid.
Your weird mottled scales are hard (AC +8).
Your body does not fit into most forms of armour.
Your cold-blooded metabolism reacts poorly to cold.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
Your system is resistant to poisons.


Message History

You kill the sky beast!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
Things that are here:
a scroll of enchant weapon III; 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II; 2 scrolls of enchant armour; a scroll of enchant weapon I
W - a scroll of enchant weapon III
R - 4 scrolls of enchant weapon II (gained 2)
Y - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
You can't carry that many items.
You can't carry that many items.
You drop a scroll of immolation.
G - a scroll of enchant weapon I
You drop a rotting chunk of green rat flesh.
You start resting.
HP restored.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Priscilla the Mottled Draconian Conjurer.
Vehumet says: Let it end in hellfire!


## #.##   ##..##......##.....##
####..#    #.........####...##
f##...#   ##....#....#  #..##
......#####....###...# ##.##
......#.##.....##....###.##
.#.............###....#..#
####...........# ##...##.#
  #.......#....####...#.##
  ##......###...#.#.....##
# ##...#f## #...##.......#
###....###  ##..........######
......)#.# ##.....@..........##
..P.....####...###.?.....####.#
.P###........### ##<.....#  ###
..# ##.......#    ##....##
.##  #.......##    #....##
.#   #........##   ##....##
.#####.........## ##......##
.#.#.#..#..##...###........###
.......###..#....#..#........#
.......# #...#..%..###.......#
#####..###..#......# ##.....##


There are no monsters in sight!


So now I ask, is it an unreasonable idea to begin training maces and flails (probably only till minimum delay) and maybe even going further and reviving the reaver? If so, how would be a good idea to go about it?

[Arcvasti]

I usually end up training at least one weapon skill to min delay on all my mages, but especially Draconian ones. Go for it. Although even really good rings of slaying can't really compare to even a basic rF+ ring, unless you're really swimming in resists.


Speaking of swimming in resists, I found the Hat of the Alchemist for the first time. As a bog-standard MiFi worshiping Ru. Assuming no naughty invertebrates suplex me like they did last time, I've probably already won. Its refreshing just tabbing through things after playing a bunch of mages, a couple stabbers and then a Chei worshiper.

EDIT:

Wow. I've been banished six separate times. Three in the Elven Halls[Stupid dancing quickblade of distortion] and now thrice in the Vaults. Not that anything in there can really stand up to a +9 Eveningstar of Flaming wielded by a large bovine, but still.

[IcyTea31]

That dump file has your real name in the message log, heydude6. If you care about such things, you might want to edit it out.

[EnigmaticHat]

Am I the only one who finds that characters like nagas, humans, merfolk, halfing, basically any race that isn't super specialized down one path, tend to fall off after around Temple or Lair?  Like you start struggling against fairly basic enemies and you just start thinking "there's no way I'm lasting till Zot".

[IcyTea31]

The hybrid races work just fine, as long as one remembers to hybridize before too long. Merfolk use polearms but mix well with a few magic schools, halflings specialize in slings but stab quite well, nagas are powerful in melee but need to support their slow speed with spells, and so on. Humans are decent in everything so one should exploit enemy weaknesses by switching tactics appropriately.

[EnigmaticHat]

That's fair.

So, apparently polymorphed Naga keep their breath attack.  This is, I assume, either a testament to how few people play Naga, or how few people get polymorphed.  Either way its hilarious.  Robin turned me into a bat and I flew circles around her goblins spitting poison at them from out of reach.  Then once they were dead I evoked my ring of invisibility the turn she polymorphed me into a tree, making me a poison spitting, swordfighting, invisible tree.  That didn't go well for her.

Edit: Game said Terance was "easy" even though I knew he wasn't I got cocky and tried to use invisibility to gank him.  Missed the fucking stab, he immediately drinks a potion of might.  God dammit that was a stupid, avoidable death. Got him down to red health too.

[Micro102]

Just beat my first game. Gargoyle fighter of [every epic item in the game]. I held back my urge to go 15 runes for my first win.

I found this gem on level 8 of the dungeon and it's probably what let me get so disgustingly overpowered.

the +6 eveningstar of Overwhelming Force {crush, rF+ Str+6 Dex+4}

[heydude6]

That dump file has your real name in the message log, heydude6. If you care about such things, you might want to edit it out.

Thanks, edited.

Just beat my first game. Gargoyle fighter of [every epic item in the game]. I held back my urge to go 15 runes for my first win.

I found this gem on level 8 of the dungeon and it's probably what let me get so disgustingly overpowered.

the +6 eveningstar of Overwhelming Force {crush, rF+ Str+6 Dex+4}

How many runes did you go for then? On the first run I had where zot was a possibility, I ended up getting 5 before tackling zot. I ended up dying in zot, but that would have happened even if I didn't go for those runes.

[HedgehogOfTrog]

This game is so stressful. Naga enchanters and Deep Elf anythings always dying so young. One day I will win (but that might require them adding a magical hedgehog race with innate physical damage reflect).

[Micro102]

That dump file has your real name in the message log, heydude6. If you care about such things, you might want to edit it out.

Thanks, edited.

Just beat my first game. Gargoyle fighter of [every epic item in the game]. I held back my urge to go 15 runes for my first win.

I found this gem on level 8 of the dungeon and it's probably what let me get so disgustingly overpowered.

the +6 eveningstar of Overwhelming Force {crush, rF+ Str+6 Dex+4}

How many runes did you go for then? On the first run I had where zot was a possibility, I ended up getting 5 before tackling zot. I ended up dying in zot, but that would have happened even if I didn't go for those runes.

I ended up with 5. I did what I knew I could handle. Except for Slime Pits, almost died there. Never underestimate the slime pits if you are a melee character, the corrosion will destroy you even with resist corrosion.

I've never explored hell or pandemonium so I didn't want to risk my character dying to some unknown skill. And I avoided Tomb because it's just plain hard. I couldn't guarantee my guy survived.

[heydude6]

Slime pits was one of the runes I got, I two-shotted the royal jelly with my maximally enchanted demonwhip. 

The runes I got were abyssal, silver(vaults), decaying(swamp), snake pits(forgot name), and slimy. Assuming none of us are mistaken, then you must have at some point gotten one of the extended endgame runes (hells, pan, or tomb). Nice job! Which one was it?

Also to anyone who may care, my draconian died in the orcish mines. He ran out of mana and then a sixfury and greatsword weilding orc warrior killed him. I had a potion of magic too!

[Arcvasti]

Am I the only one who finds that characters like nagas, humans, merfolk, halfing, basically any race that isn't super specialized down one path, tend to fall off after around Temple or Lair?  Like you start struggling against fairly basic enemies and you just start thinking "there's no way I'm lasting till Zot".

Depends. I've never really played halfling or human, but nagas are pretty strong and merfolk just seem really bad[Rant on that below]. I'd definitely say that the specialized races[Minotaur, Elf, Centaur and such] don't have to struggle for damage as much. Generally, the less focused races make up for it in other ways. Nagas get large size, poison resist, good health, natural AC, a constrict attack, an innate ranged attack and see invisible. That sets them up pretty well for basically any build. By contrast, a Minotaur or a Deep Elf can't really compete with them on that front. But they have quicker and more reliable damage. Generally races with flat aptitudes have to make heavier use of stuff like stair dancing and retreat and rest more frequently since they'll be losing more HP/MP then usual. Since flat-aptitude races have other things going for them, this works out. Demigods have hella stats, Demonspawn have hellish mutations, Vine Stalkers are robust in a backhand kind of way and Nagas get a bunch of neat stuff in exchange for being jackal chow on the first couple levels. Humans... Humans just level really quick, which is essentially bonus MR/HP/MP and useful for classes that need quick levels[Transmuter comes to mind].

Spoiler: Merfolk rant (click to show/hide)

Merfolk, on the other hand, suck. They're pretty focused, but their area of focus is much less useful then usual. They lack a decent way to defend themselves while still being relevant damage-wise, essentially. They have Deep Elf level armour aptitudes while lacking their ability to kill from range with magic[Although they have decent Summonings, I guess]. EV is all very well and good, but as anyone who's ever played a felid can tell you, when it fails on you, it fails hard. Its the difference between 0% damage and 100% damage. Its hella binary and thus unreliable. Shields can help compensate, but the only competitive Polearms[The only weapons Merfolk are skilled with] are the two-handed ones. Unarmed Combat & Transmutations is the other big path, but Merfolk have shit Earth Magic aptitudes and Statue Form is the only real combat Transmutation that can be used with a shield. You could probably overcome any of these obstacles eventually, but it'd be a pain in the ass GETTING there.

[Micro102]

Slime pits was one of the runes I got, I two-shotted the royal jelly with my maximally enchanted demonwhip. 

The runes I got were abyssal, silver(vaults), decaying(swamp), snake pits(forgot name), and slimy. Assuming none of us are mistaken, then you must have at some point gotten one of the extended endgame runes (hells, pan, or tomb). Nice job! Which one was it?

Also to anyone who may care, my draconian died in the orcish mines. He ran out of mana and then a sixfury and greatsword weilding orc warrior killed him. I had a potion of magic too!

Hmm? I got 5 runes. And you named 5 runes. No extended.

[monk12]

Slime pits was one of the runes I got, I two-shotted the royal jelly with my maximally enchanted demonwhip. 

The runes I got were abyssal, silver(vaults), decaying(swamp), snake pits(forgot name), and slimy. Assuming none of us are mistaken, then you must have at some point gotten one of the extended endgame runes (hells, pan, or tomb). Nice job! Which one was it?

Also to anyone who may care, my draconian died in the orcish mines. He ran out of mana and then a sixfury and greatsword weilding orc warrior killed him. I had a potion of magic too!

Hmm? I got 5 runes. And you named 5 runes. No extended.

He thought when you said "Except for Slime Pits" that you had decided to back out of them without a rune, when what you meant was that that was the only rune that nearly cost you your character.