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[debvon]

I've encountered Mennas twice. The first time was with a spriggan assassin I believe. I wasn't very strong dodgy when I ran into him because I was basically diving down deep to find loot and shops, then head back up with goodies and finish off previous levels. Needless to say he chopped me up fairly quickly. I made the mistake of not looking him up as soon as I saw him, so by the time he was in my face it was all over. The second time was with (ironically?) a high level mountain dwarf paladin. Err.. fighter of TSO. I think I ran into him while scouring the Abyss for favor and scrolls. At first I expected him to wave and continue on like all of the other angels, but nope, he ran up and banged his head into my shield. It was a long fight but I managed to take him out without too much trouble. I ended up winning that game too, my very first and only win!


Question for Sif Muna people: is invocation good to train when following this deity? Does increased invocation skill cause you to channel more energy?

[Kay12]

Interesting, although I doubt that's ever been a problem for much of anyone. If you want spells and MP badly enough to worship Sif Muna, then you're certainly going to be casting them.

Technically, if you've scummed long enough so all your casting skills were maxed out, say in the abyss, you would eventually piss off Siffy. Though, by that point, you could probably KILL Sif Muna in a fight. Might as well just swap out for Makhleb or Vehumet or heck, even Fedhas.

This is a problem, yes! Heck, I think Sif Muna is the only god in the game who has a strictly limited piety source. I play a lot of undead characters so that may actually matter. On the other hand, Vehumet, the closest alternative, is not good either when scumming as it's unlikely get enough kills to keep piety rising. That's why, in my current vampire wizard game, I'm actually taking advantage of the out-of-depth monster generation and I'm going to be the best caster evah. After that, it's Vehumet time, as then I'll be able to dive fast enough to keep piety rising *fast*.

[beorn080]

Interesting, although I doubt that's ever been a problem for much of anyone. If you want spells and MP badly enough to worship Sif Muna, then you're certainly going to be casting them.

Technically, if you've scummed long enough so all your casting skills were maxed out, say in the abyss, you would eventually piss off Siffy. Though, by that point, you could probably KILL Sif Muna in a fight. Might as well just swap out for Makhleb or Vehumet or heck, even Fedhas.

If your a Sif Mummy and you can no longer get piety with Sif, just switch to someone else. Heck, at that point, switch to Ashenzari, explore the abyss/hells, and max out everything.

This is a problem, yes! Heck, I think Sif Muna is the only god in the game who has a strictly limited piety source. I play a lot of undead characters so that may actually matter. On the other hand, Vehumet, the closest alternative, is not good either when scumming as it's unlikely get enough kills to keep piety rising. That's why, in my current vampire wizard game, I'm actually taking advantage of the out-of-depth monster generation and I'm going to be the best caster evah. After that, it's Vehumet time, as then I'll be able to dive fast enough to keep piety rising *fast*.

[Frumple]

Question for Sif Muna people: is invocation good to train when following this deity? Does increased invocation skill cause you to channel more energy?

To quote the knowledge bot, Sif's channelling is "d(2+inv/4) mp." So yeah, at about 1 extra MP per 4 levels of invocation, added to the maximum a channel can give you. Can still get only 1 mp, but higher inv makes that a lot less likely.

[Kay12]

Interesting, although I doubt that's ever been a problem for much of anyone. If you want spells and MP badly enough to worship Sif Muna, then you're certainly going to be casting them.

Technically, if you've scummed long enough so all your casting skills were maxed out, say in the abyss, you would eventually piss off Siffy. Though, by that point, you could probably KILL Sif Muna in a fight. Might as well just swap out for Makhleb or Vehumet or heck, even Fedhas.

This is a problem, yes! Heck, I think Sif Muna is the only god in the game who has a strictly limited piety source. I play a lot of undead characters so that may actually matter. On the other hand, Vehumet, the closest alternative, is not good either when scumming as it's unlikely get enough kills to keep piety rising. That's why, in my current vampire wizard game, I'm actually taking advantage of the out-of-depth monster generation and I'm going to be the best caster evah. After that, it's Vehumet time, as then I'll be able to dive fast enough to keep piety rising *fast*.

If your a Sif Mummy and you can no longer get piety with Sif, just switch to someone else. Heck, at that point, switch to Ashenzari, explore the abyss/hells, and max out everything.

Fix'd yer quote.

At first I was like "wut" because I was under the impression that Sif Muna's punishments for leaving her (she's female, is she not?) were quite nasty. However, the truth turned out otherwise: from the Wiki...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

20%: Temporary decrease in Intelligence by up to 20%
30%: Confusion for 1d10 + 2 turns
20%: A random divination miscast effect (temporary? intelligence drop, map rot, confusion and forget spells are possible)
20%: All MP drained
10%: Reduction of the remaining duration of all magic enchantments affecting you to 1 turn (2 turns for Levitation).

Special treat: Sif Muna may make spells fail more often, and this may reduce the penance counter! Meaning that with furious spamming, it's possible to get rid of penance quite quickly.

No biggie if just hangin' round the temple, especially if taking advantage of the treat.

EDIT: Vehumet's penance seems manageable too.

[G-Flex]

Intentional miscasts during Sif Muna wrath don't drop the penance meter in current versions. No more trusting the wiki!


At any rate, it hardly matters that Sif Muna's piety source is "limited" unless you're farming so damn much you have every casting skill maxed out, and at that point, you hardly need Sif Muna anymore anyway.


Vehumet wrath kind of sucks, considering he can banish you and send 1s after you and such.

[Kay12]

But that's not very likely to happen, is it? It's the worst case scenario, yeah, and especially if one can't get out of the Abyss before similarly strong wrath kicks in again... woo. But simply camping in the Temple is a good safeguard against most of those things.

The bad thing about Sif Muna is, I have a nasty way of getting insane over wasted finite resources, even if they're practically infinite. Like stone in Dwarf Fortress. That's why I feel uncomfortable playing with Sif Muna. On the other hand, her wrath is rather tame. Camping in the temple with an undead character is fairly risk-free. And after the piety source is exhausted, the character should be badass enough to cope without any god at all! Or could take some relaxed god like Chei. Piety with Chei does not, I think, drop with time. Would be quite funny if it did. "You're too slow even for me!"

EDIT: By the way, which ways of losing stats are permanent and which are not? I have Alistair's Intoxication but I'm afraid to use it if the intelligence loss associated with it is permanent.

[Niveras]

Most ways aren't "permanent" in the sense that some method of restoring stat rot, such as waiting a long time or drinking restore abilities or eating royal jelly, can restore them. In fact, I think the only source of "permanent" stat rot (that can't recover on its own, given enough time), are mutations, but even they can be removed. Shuffling stats is generally permanent but you could shuffle them again if you want (and have the resources).

Int loss from miscasts (and subsequently having a poor roll with crystal balls, orange statues, staff of wu) is standard stat rot and will restore itself over time or with resource consumption. It's not clear to me from learndb whether that's the same case with alistair's, but my interpretation of "drains 1-3 int" says yes; its the same phrasing as used for the crystal balls and given my history of use with the crystal ball of energy, that source of int drain fades over time.

[Kay12]

By the way, Mennas.  I understand the idea behind him, but to be honest I think just giving spellcasters an instant game over on a random level would save programming.

...oh man. How can my Vampire Wizard survive that if I have to fight it? And I think there's nothing that would help to spot that guy beforehand either. I guess it's spamming haunt until silence and then vampire form and fly like hell...

[shadenight123]

i started recently playing this game...
i met grinder with my death knight.
He...he grinded me to death ç_ç he followed me through all the level and butchered me in pain just as i was about to reach the stairs back up.
So, so sad.
ç_ç i'll reach him again and butcher him. and eat his corpse.

[Kay12]

No you won't, he's an imp (a shadow imp, to be precise) and imps don't leave corpses.

Luckily, he has the impy habit of blinking, sometimes allowing you to escape!

[jaxy15]

Guys, is it normal to find fifty million orcs and a warg?

[Soadreqm]

I think I beat Mennas with a deep elf by siccing greater demons on him. And the SpTm of Ashenzari who won just snuck past him.

[shadenight123]

No you won't, he's an imp (a shadow imp, to be precise) and imps don't leave corpses.

Luckily, he has the impy habit of blinking, sometimes allowing you to escape!

d'arvit.
i know about the blinking though. i though i had lost him to a corner, and he blinked in front of me.

[breadbocks]

Oh hey, Artemis Fowl.