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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3067429 times)

Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26460 on: February 19, 2016, 02:58:05 pm »

So the problem is that you don't know ahead of time what you'd like to watch?
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Aklyon

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26461 on: February 19, 2016, 03:08:16 pm »

The problem is that there isn't one, ideally. With good enough (actual good enough, not whatever the isp assumes they can get away with) bandwidth, you could download episodes as fast as you could stream them, so you could do either whenever with minimal delay. Instead, it makes more sense to either entirely stream the series (since you can watch it as it loads instead of waiting), or stream a bit of it as an interest check and then download it overnight to watch later unless you knew ahead of time you'd like it.
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Quote from: RedKing
It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26462 on: February 19, 2016, 03:13:52 pm »

So the problem is that you don't know ahead of time what you'd like to watch?
The problem is more that for a large part of the US downloading an episode in anything better than 1280x720 is probably going to take at least an hour or so (or longer, I know several people where just downloading a 1280x720 takes 3 hours+ on the fastest connection available in their area), during which time you won't be able to do anything else with your internet either. I don't know about you, but personally when I decide I want to watch an already existing show I'd prefer to actually be able to watch the show for a handful of episodes, not watch an episode today, then one tomorrow, then one the day after, all the while weathering comments about how I'm ruining the internet for everybody else with my downloads. When I've got a couple of hours to burn where I can work offline and I know nobody else is going to be using the internet do I like to download something to watch it in higher quality? Hell yeah! But when I stumble on a new show and want to binge watch the first 6 episodes I don't want to have to wait an hour and a half before I start watching, and then wait another hour between each episode for the next one to finish downloading.

(And that doesn't even touch the bandwidth caps that many people have nowdays, which could be a totally viable reason to watch episodes in a lower quality all by itself).
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Aklyon

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26463 on: February 19, 2016, 03:20:18 pm »

Bandwidth caps are entirely bs for most non-technical reasons and I'm glad we don't have one; I doubt I'd hear any good arguments against that unless a company makes a better claim than one to cover up that they're trying to choke cordcutting of their bad tv channels by adding arbitrary fees to internet service.
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Crystalline (SG)
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Quote from: RedKing
It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Andres

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26464 on: February 19, 2016, 04:15:49 pm »

Just finished watching Fate/Stay Night. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed. It was inferior in pretty much every single way to Fate/Zero. Story, characters, visuals, philosophy, music...it failed to live up to its predecessor in every respect.
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i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26465 on: February 19, 2016, 04:21:27 pm »

Just finished watching Fate/Stay Night. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed. It was inferior in pretty much every single way to Fate/Zero. Story, characters, visuals, philosophy, music...it failed to live up to its predecessor in every respect.
Which Fate/Stay Night are we talking about here? Because the original is pretty old at this point (having come out in 2006), so yeah it's gonna be inferior, but IMO Unlimited Blade Works blows Fate/Zero out of the water on the visuals and probably music courts (though it still kinda loses in terms of story/characters/philosophy).
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It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26466 on: February 19, 2016, 04:21:42 pm »

The problem is that there isn't one, ideally. With good enough (actual good enough, not whatever the isp assumes they can get away with) bandwidth, you could download episodes as fast as you could stream them, so you could do either whenever with minimal delay. Instead, it makes more sense to either entirely stream the series (since you can watch it as it loads instead of waiting), or stream a bit of it as an interest check and then download it overnight to watch later unless you knew ahead of time you'd like it.
Ah, I didn't realize throttling like that was in play, since it's illegal in both the USA and EU. What country are you from, if I may ask?
anything better than 1280x720
Why would you want to download an upscale in the first place?
3 hours+ on the fastest connection available in their area), during which time you won't be able to do anything else with your internet either.
If you're in that remote of a location, isn't streaming going to be rough too? Wouldn't that be exactly the case when you would rather queue some downloads overnight? By my math, if 720p takes three hours, then using your entire connection would struggle to give you 420p even with a greatly reduced bitrate.

Quote
(And that doesn't even touch the bandwidth caps that many people have nowdays, which could be a totally viable reason to watch episodes in a lower quality all by itself).
If you're watching anime on your phone, of course you have a different set of limitations. In that case, I would still recommend downloading normally and just moving it temporarily to your phone.
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26467 on: February 19, 2016, 04:27:13 pm »

Just finished watching Fate/Stay Night. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed. It was inferior in pretty much every single way to Fate/Zero. Story, characters, visuals, philosophy, music...it failed to live up to its predecessor in every respect.
Which Fate/Stay Night are we talking about here? Because the original is pretty old at this point (having come out in 2006), so yeah it's gonna be inferior, but IMO Unlimited Blade Works blows Fate/Zero out of the water on the visuals and probably music courts (though it still kinda loses in terms of story/characters/philosophy).

Yup, Fate Stay/Night is the original series. Fate/Zero is a much more recent spin-off / prequel. The "Zero" in things like that is usually a give-away for a prequel, since most series starts counting at "1".

Bauglir

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26468 on: February 19, 2016, 04:36:27 pm »

@Cruxador

There aren't many download services out there that match CrunchyRoll's price range of $0, and do so legally. For those two criteria to be met, I'm willing to accept lower video quality and release delays.
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“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
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At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Aklyon

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26469 on: February 19, 2016, 04:38:42 pm »

The problem is that there isn't one, ideally. With good enough (actual good enough, not whatever the isp assumes they can get away with) bandwidth, you could download episodes as fast as you could stream them, so you could do either whenever with minimal delay. Instead, it makes more sense to either entirely stream the series (since you can watch it as it loads instead of waiting), or stream a bit of it as an interest check and then download it overnight to watch later unless you knew ahead of time you'd like it.
Ah, I didn't realize throttling like that was in play, since it's illegal in both the USA and EU. What country are you from, if I may ask?
No, not throttling, that would be easier to fix. The us isps just don't give a shit about upgrading anything until google fiber bodily throws competition in their face. They'd much prefer getting money for doing nothing and getting awards like 'highest amount of complaints received'.
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Crystalline (SG)
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Quote from: RedKing
It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Andres

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26470 on: February 19, 2016, 04:40:45 pm »

Just finished watching Fate/Stay Night. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed. It was inferior in pretty much every single way to Fate/Zero. Story, characters, visuals, philosophy, music...it failed to live up to its predecessor in every respect.
Which Fate/Stay Night are we talking about here? Because the original is pretty old at this point (having come out in 2006), so yeah it's gonna be inferior, but IMO Unlimited Blade Works blows Fate/Zero out of the water on the visuals and probably music courts (though it still kinda loses in terms of story/characters/philosophy).
I'm talking about the one from UBW, the new one. I have no idea how you can think it looked and sounded better than Fate/Zero, ESPECIALLY when it came to music. FZ had some of the best music in all of anime. Many of its tracks were distinct and memorable, unlike FSN. Off the top of my head, the songs I can remember from FZ are This Day and Never Again, Point Zero, Babylonia, The Battle is to the Strong, and Let the Stars Fall Down. From FSN, the only track that didn't sound generic (though admittedly nice) was Berserker's theme, but that's it.

As for visuals, FSN has nothing on FZ. Just about the only visually worthy things in FSN are the design of Archer's reality marble and Heracles' fights. In FZ, Saber's beam attack on the giant eldritch abomination was grander, Iskandar's Ionian Hetairoi awesome as f*ck, Berserker's fights were just as good as Heracles', Gilgamesh's use of Ea much more impressive than its use in FSN, etc. Even FZ's VCR thing with Emiya was done much better from a visual point of view than FSN's Archer flashbacks. And honestly, FSN has nothing that matches the sheer atrocities that FZ's Caster commits. Crucified children is simply a more visually striking image than some asshole becoming a giant lump of flesh.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 04:44:54 pm by Andres »
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i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26471 on: February 19, 2016, 05:09:03 pm »

Lots of responses inbound! :P
The problem is that there isn't one, ideally. With good enough (actual good enough, not whatever the isp assumes they can get away with) bandwidth, you could download episodes as fast as you could stream them, so you could do either whenever with minimal delay. Instead, it makes more sense to either entirely stream the series (since you can watch it as it loads instead of waiting), or stream a bit of it as an interest check and then download it overnight to watch later unless you knew ahead of time you'd like it.
Ah, I didn't realize throttling like that was in play, since it's illegal in both the USA and EU. What country are you from, if I may ask?
Illegal != not done by companies. And without any competition and no real oversight in most places most US ISP's get away with at least some pretty regularly.
anything better than 1280x720
Why would you want to download an upscale in the first place?
Most blue-ray shows are coming out in 1920x1080p now, which means that the 1280x720 is actually a downscaling of the "official" release.
3 hours+ on the fastest connection available in their area), during which time you won't be able to do anything else with your internet either.
If you're in that remote of a location, isn't streaming going to be rough too? Wouldn't that be exactly the case when you would rather queue some downloads overnight? By my math, if 720p takes three hours, then using your entire connection would struggle to give you 420p even with a greatly reduced bitrate.
At that particular friends house 480 can be done pretty regularly, though you need to give it a minute or two to buffer ahead right at the start of the episode. Personally where I live I can pull a 480 stream just fine, but a 720 means I've got to have the internet basically to myself to pull a stream (or give it 10 minutes or so of buffering at the start). My general track where I'm at is to alternate episode streams in 480 and 720, immediately starting the next one buffering once the one I'm currently watching finishes loading all of the way, meaning that I don't need to wait between episodes and I can watch maybe 2/3rds of them in 720p even with someone else on the internet.
Quote
(And that doesn't even touch the bandwidth caps that many people have nowdays, which could be a totally viable reason to watch episodes in a lower quality all by itself).
If you're watching anime on your phone, of course you have a different set of limitations. In that case, I would still recommend downloading normally and just moving it temporarily to your phone.
Currently Comcast, AT&T, Cox, Charter, Cable One, Cablevision, Mediacom, Suddenlink, Frontier, and CenturyLink (though they only sometimes actually enforce it) have data caps, and those are just the big names from a much longer list. That means that 9 of the 12 ISP's in the US with over 1 million subscribers have some form of a cap, and that's amplified by the fact that some 50% of the US only actually have access to 1 or maybe 2 of those big names. I know that at least in the vast majority of my state you usually have two different options, and both of them are part of that capped list. If you don't want a cap here in Arizona, your choices generally boil down to either:
1) Pay hundreds of dollars a month for business internet/fiber that you will be locked into for a few years.
2) Have internet that is so slow it isn't good for much more than simple web browsing.
-Music-
I guess we just have differing tastes in music. Though to be totally fair a few of the cooler pieces of music (Such as Gilgamesh's theme) essentially repeat themselves in remixed form in UBW. :P UBW does lose the fact that because they don't have as many solid contenders for the throne they can't utilize the idea of a leitmotif quite as well as F/Z does.
As for visuals, FSN has nothing on FZ. Just about the only visually worthy things in FSN are the design of Archer's reality marble and Heracles' fights. In FZ, Saber's beam attack on the giant eldritch abomination was grander, Iskandar's Ionian Hetairoi awesome as f*ck, Berserker's fights were just as good as Heracles', Gilgamesh's use of Ea much more impressive than its use in FSN, etc. Even FZ's VCR thing with Emiya was done much better from a visual point of view than FSN's Archer flashbacks. And honestly, FSN has nothing that matches the sheer atrocities that FZ's Caster commits. Crucified children is simply a more visually striking image than some asshole becoming a giant lump of flesh.
I will give you that there were more top moments in F/Z, but UBW just has a huge amount of little details (wood grain, rubble, etc.) that show up and then stick around even during the fights, such that even in the midst of an intense battle you can pause the episode and it will still be near still picture quality despite it just being a 3 second throwaway shot of the two characters over a particular patch of ground. I also feel that while F/Z managed to build a much better story, UBW manages to throw in much better "symbolic" moments (which kinda makes sense since so much of it's story is about ideals clashing).
Spoiler: For example: (click to show/hide)
If you look for them you can find tons of little symbolic moments like that in the fights, which I think is really awesome. It's those little bits of symbolism scattered throughout and the parallels between different fights to draw out the representations of the clash of ideals plus that always continued preservation of the little details that really sinks the visual aspect of UBW as topping F/Z for me, personally.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 05:15:26 pm by i2amroy »
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It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26472 on: February 19, 2016, 05:27:44 pm »

anything better than 1280x720
Why would you want to download an upscale in the first place?
Most blue-ray shows are coming out in 1920x1080p now, which means that the 1280x720 is actually a downscaling of the "official" release.

I have to support this. The main reason is that the standard format for TV shows in Japan is a thing called HDCAM. You can look up what formats HDCAM supports. For the first 10 years or so that this was in use, there wasn't any 720p option, so any show shot on this which is the industry-standard is shot in 1080. When HDCAM tapes ran out in 2011 due to an earthquake at the Sony factory that makes them, there was major panic in the TV/film industry, so this has been widely used for a long time. Sony's website categorically states that HDCAM does not support 720p (note, bottom right of page 5). The most logical thing is that Crunchyroll gets the same material as all the TV stations, which is HDCAM 1080.

* note: the more recent HDCAM-SR variant allows 720p, so anime studios could possibly master in 720p if they have up to date HDCAM-SR recorders, but HDCAM-SR tapes are more expensive, costing $250 for a 2-hour tape. I'm kinda guessing that if a studio has up to date tech and is spending a fortune on the tapes, then they're just sticking 1080p on there and not wasting tape on 720p: if they were cutting costs and buying the older-style HDCAM tapes, they're stuck with 1080p.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 04:24:52 pm by Reelya »
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Furtuka

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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26474 on: February 21, 2016, 03:46:43 am »

Yup, Fate Stay/Night is the original series. Fate/Zero is a much more recent spin-off / prequel. The "Zero" in things like that is usually a give-away for a prequel, since most series starts counting at "1".
He was contrasting "original anime" to "Unlimited Blade Works". They are both adaptations of Fate/Stay Night, which is a VN and not a series at all.

There aren't many download services out there that match CrunchyRoll's price range of $0, and do so legally. For those two criteria to be met, I'm willing to accept lower video quality and release delays.
Until and unless TPP passes, there isn't any legal issue outside of Japan for series without official releases (ie almost all of them).

No, not throttling, that would be easier to fix. The us isps just don't give a shit about upgrading anything until google fiber bodily throws competition in their face. They'd much prefer getting money for doing nothing and getting awards like 'highest amount of complaints received'.
But then how are you able to stream?

Most blue-ray shows are coming out in 1920x1080p now, which means that the 1280x720 is actually a downscaling of the "official" release.
Yeah, but BDs come out several months to half a year after the anime does. If you're watching currently airing anime, the best you can get that's not an upscale is 720p. If you're watching BDs though, then yeah, 1080p. Although at that point you might want to consider actually buying the BDs, they do tend to be very expensive but it's the only way that studios get paid for their work.

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buffering
That's the same thing as downloading, though. You're not using less bandwidth or time by doing it this way. You're probably using more, since a lot of compression choices aren't available in a steaming environment, and you're also loading all the ads.

Quote
The most logical thing is that Crunchyroll gets the same material as all the TV stations, which is HDCAM 1080.
I don't know if Crunchyroll ever sees that, but if they do they never broadcast it. I suspect they don't, since if the reason they didn't broadcast it was contractual, they probably wouldn't be allowed to have any 1080p.
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