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[Elephant Parade]

None of my abilities interface with the knives in any way besides Chat Invite B handing one to the target as a drawback. I can't absolutely prove that I don't have such an ability any more than I can prove that giving one to me won't cause me to instantly win the game, but (a) I have already claimed three active abilities, two of which are verifiable, and (b) if you believe Toonyman, I shouldn't have a (Kill) ability.

And it hasn't been even five hours since the last time you asked me to scumhunt more. Please don't breathe down my neck. I'll share my reads after dinner.

[Imp]

None of my abilities interface with the knives in any way besides Chat Invite B handing one to the target as a drawback. I can't absolutely prove that I don't have such an ability any more than I can prove that giving one to me won't cause me to instantly win the game, but (a) I have already claimed three active abilities, two of which are verifiable, and (b) if you believe Toonyman, I shouldn't have a (Kill) ability.

And it hasn't been even five hours since the last time you asked me to scumhunt more. Please don't breathe down my neck. I'll share my reads after dinner.

Yeah.  Just trying to plan for the knives in the hands of you or anyone else, thinking about them as items.

If the Page protection, which I hope exists and may exist, ends for any reason and at any time, trying to track who might be able to do what if they meant to throw kills around.  And/or what 'and overwhelming flurry of kills might mean'.

I doubt the game is that simple, 'get X item, game over'.  Loads of checks and balances, I hope.

And not trying to breathe down your or anyones' necks.  I saw your reaction, had my reaction, didn't realize or think it was inappropriate.  Hope you have a great dinner, looking forward to reading more when you're ready.

[Crystalizedmire]

I am completely cool with not intentionally targeting you or NJW with mimic. I will also not be stealing tonight. I'm completely cool with your orders. I targeted Elephant Parade with both of the actions because I know Elephant Parade has items and I'm suspicious of them now that Maximum Spin is dead. I haven't thought about Elephant Parade since.

Thank you for the not intentionally targeting.  I'm so sorry it comes out as 'orders'.  Not my intent, I see you as a free spirit and likely town.  I just want to guide/inform about really scary-to-me anti-town outcomes.

If you were sus of EP, why mimic them?  I get the thwart, why not limit like you did Max?

Did you stop being sus of EP?  And why stop thinking about them?

I meant to say I didn't analyze elephants votes yet. I think Elephant is town because I think they were being genuinely helpful. Also here's my reads:
Imp-town vibes
Toonyman-it is reasonable that they believed web due to their role. I think they were genuinely helpful d2
Njw-I think they weren't lying about the Bible
Elephant Parade-I don't like their d1 self since it seems too scummy to me. Trying to get newbies eliminated because they don't want a mafioso eliminated is pretty suspicious
Fallacy-Always suspicious but this version rubs me the wrong. If they are antitown I think they're sk
EuchreJack-I don't have a solid case against euchrejack either but I think they might be serial killer

[Elephant Parade]

Most Scummy
FallacyofUrist: I am 90% sure they're the third mafioso. See here, here; refused to defend themselves; I don't like how focused they were on MS's parting words at the start of the day









Imp: Daygame reminds me of Armed Forces Basic, particularly on D2; weird D2 post speculating about there only being one kill because of a (Dud) still feels like a scumslip to me
EuchreJack: I still don't have much to say about him
NJW: Pretty quiet, kinda sus -- but hey, there was no kill last night
Toonyman: Only really shady things he's done all game are (1) not mention that trading the page disabled it for the night until after someone posted a trade (warning: I haven't actually gone back and checked that I have the timeline right here) and (2) townread webadict D1. Committed to MS's wagon fairly late. Totally forthcoming otherwise
Crystalizedmire: Fairly shady day play, but habitually quiet player who is nearly impossible to put on a team with MS and Web (voted both, eagerly wagoned by both). Plausible third party or second scumteam member, but then why were they so passive at the end of D1? I have a pet theory that they're a magpie whose wincon is to steal a certain number of items (this is probably wrong)
TricMagic: Came at town-ish-3P!me with goofy arguments as town in a Supernatural, so him doing it to town!me here doesn't change my read
Least Scummy

I am completely cool with not intentionally targeting you or NJW with mimic. I will also not be stealing tonight. I'm completely cool with your orders. I targeted Elephant Parade with both of the actions because I know Elephant Parade has items and I'm suspicious of them now that Maximum Spin is dead. I haven't thought about Elephant Parade since.

Thank you for the not intentionally targeting.  I'm so sorry it comes out as 'orders'.  Not my intent, I see you as a free spirit and likely town.  I just want to guide/inform about really scary-to-me anti-town outcomes.

If you were sus of EP, why mimic them?  I get the thwart, why not limit like you did Max?

Did you stop being sus of EP?  And why stop thinking about them?

I meant to say I didn't analyze elephants votes yet. I think Elephant is town because I think they were being genuinely helpful. Also here's my reads:
Imp-town vibes
Toonyman-it is reasonable that they believed web due to their role. I think they were genuinely helpful d2
Njw-I think they weren't lying about the Bible
Elephant Parade-I don't like their d1 self since it seems too scummy to me. Trying to get newbies eliminated because they don't want a mafioso eliminated is pretty suspicious
Fallacy-Always suspicious but this version rubs me the wrong. If they are antitown I think they're sk
EuchreJack-I don't have a solid case against euchrejack either but I think they might be serial killer

wat

[Crystalizedmire]

Also, I mimicked Elephant Parade because if they are town I want to help them get as much people in chats as possible. I was also hoping to be in one pf those chats
Ninja: I'm town bit my rolename is Corvid Conspirator

[Imp]

Most Scummy
FallacyofUrist: I am 90% sure they're the third mafioso. See here, here; refused to defend themselves; I don't like how focused they were on MS's parting words at the start of the day









Imp: Daygame reminds me of Armed Forces Basic, particularly on D2; weird D2 post speculating about there only being one kill because of a (Dud) still feels like a scumslip to me
EuchreJack: I still don't have much to say about him
NJW: Pretty quiet, kinda sus -- but hey, there was no kill last night
Toonyman: Only really shady things he's done all game are (1) not mention that trading the page disabled it for the night until after someone posted a trade (warning: I haven't actually gone back and checked that I have the timeline right here) and (2) townread webadict D1. Committed to MS's wagon fairly late. Totally forthcoming otherwise
Crystalizedmire: Fairly shady day play, but habitually quiet player who is nearly impossible to put on a team with MS and Web (voted both, eagerly wagoned by both). Plausible third party or second scumteam member, but then why were they so passive at the end of D1? I have a pet theory that they're a magpie whose wincon is to steal a certain number of items (this is probably wrong)
TricMagic: Came at town-ish-3P!me with goofy arguments as town in a Supernatural, so him doing it to town!me here doesn't change my read
Least Scummy

I am completely cool with not intentionally targeting you or NJW with mimic. I will also not be stealing tonight. I'm completely cool with your orders. I targeted Elephant Parade with both of the actions because I know Elephant Parade has items and I'm suspicious of them now that Maximum Spin is dead. I haven't thought about Elephant Parade since.

Thank you for the not intentionally targeting.  I'm so sorry it comes out as 'orders'.  Not my intent, I see you as a free spirit and likely town.  I just want to guide/inform about really scary-to-me anti-town outcomes.

If you were sus of EP, why mimic them?  I get the thwart, why not limit like you did Max?

Did you stop being sus of EP?  And why stop thinking about them?

I meant to say I didn't analyze elephants votes yet. I think Elephant is town because I think they were being genuinely helpful. Also here's my reads:
Imp-town vibes
Toonyman-it is reasonable that they believed web due to their role. I think they were genuinely helpful d2
Njw-I think they weren't lying about the Bible
Elephant Parade-I don't like their d1 self since it seems too scummy to me. Trying to get newbies eliminated because they don't want a mafioso eliminated is pretty suspicious
Fallacy-Always suspicious but this version rubs me the wrong. If they are antitown I think they're sk
EuchreJack-I don't have a solid case against euchrejack either but I think they might be serial killer

wat

Cool.

I hope you discuss the wat thing with CM more.  Love to see you scumhunting more.

So, your reads list, given 2 dead scum, a dead TP, and 8 of us alive with 1 dead town, is that most of us are null to you.  Yuck.

But I'm #2 scummiest to you, and helpfully you say why.

I don't remind you of my FBYOR play, and I discussed ideas about maybe dud sphere explains why 1 kill N1, when we know the Page wasn't in effect.

Re play:  I bet my FBYOR play doesn't remind you much of my catfia play either.  Or that my play in Max's Supernormal reminds anyone who paid attention much of my play in either of those games.  I have differences every game.  If my differences mean scum to you, I wonder if you're take the time to explain to all of us, y'know, put some effort into your 'work'.

Tric was helpful, I am cutting you a lot of slack for reasonable mechanics play.  I don't know, I'm just guessing about you.  Listening to you, you sound like you don't really have a follow on the game.

As for the dud stuff, we had a brief discussion about it:

First, second, third.  Wonder if anyone else think that looks scummy.  Of either of us.

We're probably town chewing on town.  I want you to chew more carefully and thoughtfully of everyone.

I'm incredibly disappointed in you that I'm your second scummiest for that reason set alone.  That's piffle.

It's D3.  And your third scummiest is 'Don't have much to say about him'.  I hope you catch up on the thread or start chasing your cases.  You're sitting there on your thumb waving ideas and not trying to achieve anything except getting ignored yourself.  Thanks, Tric.  I'm noticing.

I don't mean to breathe down your neck, EP.  I expect more of you as the day progresses.

[Imp]

Also, I mimicked Elephant Parade because if they are town I want to help them get as much people in chats as possible. I was also hoping to be in one pf those chats
Ninja: I'm town bit my rolename is Corvid Conspirator

if your goal is to get as much people in chats as possible, why didn't you discuss in any way your goal, and if it could be achievable, might work/cause harm?  Ask him for an invite, discuss if you could help him make more chats.

This EP, he claimed he could make 2 chats, and he could cop people in a chat with him.  It sounded to me like he couldn't make infinite chats, I tried to explore that with him D2, was part of why he ended up with the Glass, so he could have a sphere to check for that he knew to look for, and have that info before he used his second chat creation.  I suggested to him then if he could make infinite chats he should make his chat instead of using the glass, but if he had a limited number, glass then chat.

Were you aware you were possibly interfering with a cop doing copwork?  Why act without discussing?

[Elephant Parade]

I hope you discuss the wat thing with CM more.  Love to see you scumhunting more.

So, your reads list, given 2 dead scum, a dead TP, and 8 of us alive with 1 dead town, is that most of us are null to you.  Yuck.

But I'm #2 scummiest to you, and helpfully you say why.

I don't remind you of my FBYOR play, and I discussed ideas about maybe dud sphere explains why 1 kill N1, when we know the Page wasn't in effect.

Re play:  I bet my FBYOR play doesn't remind you much of my catfia play either.  Or that my play in Max's Supernormal reminds anyone who paid attention much of my play in either of those games.  I have differences every game.  If my differences mean scum to you, I wonder if you're take the time to explain to all of us, y'know, put some effort into your 'work'.

Tric was helpful, I am cutting you a lot of slack for reasonable mechanics play.  I don't know, I'm just guessing about you.  Listening to you, you sound like you don't really have a follow on the game.

As for the dud stuff, we had a brief discussion about it:

First, second, third.  Wonder if anyone else think that looks scummy.  Of either of us.

We're probably town chewing on town.  I want you to chew more carefully and thoughtfully of everyone.

I'm incredibly disappointed in you that I'm your second scummiest for that reason set alone.  That's piffle.

It's D3.  And your third scummiest is 'Don't have much to say about him'.  I hope you catch up on the thread or start chasing your cases.  You're sitting there on your thumb waving ideas and not trying to achieve anything except getting ignored yourself.  Thanks, Tric.  I'm noticing.

I don't mean to breathe down your neck, EP.  I expect more of you as the day progresses.

Nobody is null. The closest is NJW, whose daygame is null/sussily lurky to me but who mechanically seems town (actually he's solidly town because he led the wagon on MS, but I completely forgot that when I wrote the post). I just didn't give an explicit measure of how scummy I thought each person was because I figured the text and ordering would speak for itself. Here are more explicit conclusions on non-FoU people, I guess:
- Imp: most probable SK if one exists
- EJ: not getting scum vibes from him
- Toonyman: Couuuuuuuld be the third partner but I doubt it, seems solidly town if I look past a couple of missteps
- CM: Pretty much can't be the third partner, play is shady but meh, saying town
- TricMagic: I don't think he's scum
- NJW (moved): He's been quiet but I can't blame him for it, wagoning MS D2 would be a hell of a bus play, and his thing with the page seems to be working

I am 90% certain that FoU will flip scum, and conditional on that, I give better-than-even odds that the game will end. If it doesn't, I probably won't die tonight because (a) there was no kill tonight and if it was NJW's mojo he can probably do it again and (b) I don't think I'm a high-profile nightkill target. Therefore, I can lay out my case tomorrow, when it's actually relevant. (If I'm wrong and FoU flips town, someone might vig me, but I can give Toony and Jack the cliff notes in chat.) Therefore, the value to town from reviewing and presenting my case on you at this juncture seems extremely nebulous, especially relative to the amount of effort it would take. Here is a tl;dr: Your vibes are off.

You are obviously not my second scumpick for the reason of the dud post alone (and mind the massive gap between first and second on my list), as evidenced by my presenting a second reason, which you just finished addressing. There are also additional reasons that I didn't feel like laying out in what was supposed to be a brief summary of every player in the game!

I am caught up on the thread. I just don't immediately have anything to say beyond what I've already said. If a post or series of posts doesn't ask something of me or inspire an immediate response, I like to let it percolate for a bit, wait and see if anything else happens, maybe sleep on it and reread it in the morning. I think this policy helps me make posts which are thought-out and useful. I will not discard it because you just asked me to scumhunt more for the third time in one eight-hour period.

[Imp]

We'll see.  I don't know who we flip today.  FoU seems likely, and has high sus for me too, but if that flip is pro-town, I'm very worried about where that Sketch #2 went.

And if I'm the next flip, I'm town.  So there will need to be another flip.  Better work on that next plan.  Win or lose with me as your next pick - I'm so sorry but it's not over with me.  I would hate to misflip you because you're lazy and only using mechanics to guide your play.  We don't have time for that, unless we're lucky and this correctly ends today.

[Elephant Parade]

I'm not lazy, Imp, and I don't know where "only using mechanics to guide [my] play" comes from.

Even if I assume there's an anti-town player who isn't FoU, I'm not nearly as confident that that player is you as I am that FoU is scum. That's why there's a MASSIVE GAP between FoU and you and no MASSIVE GAP between you and the next player on the list. If this game goes to D4, I won't focus on you to the degree that I am FoU here.

[ToonyMan]

Cool.

I hope you discuss the wat thing with CM more.  Love to see you scumhunting more.

So, your reads list, given 2 dead scum, a dead TP, and 8 of us alive with 1 dead town, is that most of us are null to you.  Yuck.

But I'm #2 scummiest to you, and helpfully you say why.

I don't remind you of my FBYOR play, and I discussed ideas about maybe dud sphere explains why 1 kill N1, when we know the Page wasn't in effect.

Re play:  I bet my FBYOR play doesn't remind you much of my catfia play either.  Or that my play in Max's Supernormal reminds anyone who paid attention much of my play in either of those games.  I have differences every game.  If my differences mean scum to you, I wonder if you're take the time to explain to all of us, y'know, put some effort into your 'work'.

Tric was helpful, I am cutting you a lot of slack for reasonable mechanics play.  I don't know, I'm just guessing about you.  Listening to you, you sound like you don't really have a follow on the game.

As for the dud stuff, we had a brief discussion about it:

First, second, third.  Wonder if anyone else think that looks scummy.  Of either of us.

We're probably town chewing on town.  I want you to chew more carefully and thoughtfully of everyone.

I'm incredibly disappointed in you that I'm your second scummiest for that reason set alone.  That's piffle.

It's D3.  And your third scummiest is 'Don't have much to say about him'.  I hope you catch up on the thread or start chasing your cases.  You're sitting there on your thumb waving ideas and not trying to achieve anything except getting ignored yourself.  Thanks, Tric.  I'm noticing.

I don't mean to breathe down your neck, EP.  I expect more of you as the day progresses.

[EuchreJack]

Relevant:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[NJW2000]

Ok, I don't think there's a reason to keep this under wraps, apologies if I've missed anything.

Claim: my protection is an auto that forces someone to use an action that will save me if I am targeted with a kill.

It's a random choice from the players capable of saving me. The disbenefit from targeting me is not applied to the saving player.

I was pretty sure that someone would have an ability that could save me, and reasonably sure that it wouldn't just be a simple redirect onto another player. Less so tonight... while it's quite likely mafia none'd last night, it's possible they used up someone's protection shot. So I'd like to have further protection, but I'm keeping the page either way.

No need to claim if people have a saving power.

Just let it happen N3 if a kill occurs, no interference necessary.


Rereading Toony... there's a lot of stuff that suggests they're not scum with Max/Web, like mechanical confusion posts here that would be really odd for scum!Max to fabricate.

Toony: you seem pretty against the idea that there are two scumteams, or even further scum outside Max/Web/Potentially FoU. Is this based on reads or assumptions about the setup?

[Imp]

K, NJW.

Based on everything I learned throughout the game, including new info I gained last night, my intense sus of NJW is reasonably nulled because I can see a pro-town intention in what looked wrong/bad to me then.

NJW, I think I understand your D2 plan that scared me so bad.  Unfortunately, in part because of me and item weirdness, and me not knowing at least one key part of your plan D2, that plan becomes impossible D3+.

It had huge holes in it, probably death-sized holes in it if we tried it D2 as well, based on everything I know.  You may still know more that you haven't revealed that makes it a better plan than I can tell then or now, that's fine.

Those who tried to kill last night, if any, know if they tried to kill.

Those who had an apple last night know if they ate it or not.  If they didn't, they know what happened to the apple and what could be done with it N3 or later.  If anyone got an apple last night and wisely didn't talk about it, they know what they can and probably should do with it tonight, but it's in their hands and I've given all the clues I'm gonna give about what I think is the best use of that apple.  It is not pro-town for me to say what happened to that apple, and what might happen with it in the future.

However, if I prevented it from rotting, and I can, but that means I can't trade it - I can still eat it any time I think wise.  If I didn't eat it last night, I can use it tonight, or give it - same as any other item I yanked out of play, I just can't trade it.

I think I've said enough about myself and my (I think) terrifying pile of fluff (hah, fluff ain't scary) I can do all at the same time.  I bet if an anti-town kill flies, it might want to fly at me.  That's the best protection I can offer anyone but myself, if stuff mucks up, and the Page doesn't redirect a kill, maybe I can die at night for you guys because I'm scarier than any of you left alive perhaps.  And I'm playing 'guess if I have and choose to eat the apple tonight or not' with those who want to kill me, if any exist.

D2 I said 'don't protect me N2'.  Maybe because I ate that apple, or knew I could.  NJW says, I think, 'don't target NJW for protection'.  We're into Schrodinger's apple now, so if someone can and chooses to protect me, not a bad idea.

Also, if the Page appears in my inventory, I go back to being committed to getting it out of play without saying it ever appeared there unless I see some better pro-town use of it.  To my thought this just means NJW knows and I know that there's no Page protection, and NJW did that because NJW knew that they can't reliably eat the NK any different than anyone else - I don't think it's pro-town for me to say this, and if NJW thinks it's pro-town to reveal it, then NJW can say it themself - they'd know so they can say it.  I'm kinda dancing around saying 'anti-town, my whole game, day and night, is devoted to taking you out, even though my night game currently is throwing handfuls of confetti around and making items move'.  Won't force them to target me if they target anyone, but I am trying.  I certainly have no objection to taking that Page out of play because I died with it, if it can't do the hoped-for job.  But as I said D1, and D2, if it can't do the job you think/hope you can do with it, I lean towards 'why not take it out of play'.  If you all wanna pass it around and keep it out of imp-hands, I'm not going to argue, I just think that's probably foolish, but if you see a way to make it work great, make it work great.

[Imp]

Relevant:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Possibly relevant:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)