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[ToonyMan]

I would rather be dead if Max is town. I wasn't thinking about the ramifications. I apologize about that, I think this is an understandable position for any player that has been reading Day 2.

[Imp]

There is no universe in which that's the team.

Weird that this is the first post I see when I wake up. I can't shake the feeling that this is exactly the most likely team.

Your weird talk about being masons with them.
You tell web & toony jump (vote CM) - they jump.

Fallacy's post on how Toony keeps doing this thing where he asserts things without providing reasons was a great coherent argument from him, I'm impressed. The thing is, all three of you have been doing that.

And then I see both Toony and web assert that we need to keep Max alive because he supposedly can separate the lovers, which is a disturbingly bad non-alignment reason to keep someone alive.

If you think Max is town, you keep him alive.
If you think Max is scum, you lynch him and any golden mountains he promised are irrelevant.
And it doesn't even matter in the first place, because the two of them are vulnerable to a nightkill too so if mafia wants the 2-for-1 they can always get it.

So yeah, there are a lot of universes where you three are a team. I have to type this before I go to work and day 1 ends.

So, use your vote, go to web?  Do you see a universe where Max is scum and web isn't?  If you think Max is scum, go for web?

I can see a universe where Max is town and saves web, irrespective of web's alignment.  But not the inverse.

Does anyone see a universe where Toony is scum and NJW isn't?

If you think Toony is scum, go for NJW.

I can see a universe where Toony is town and plays as he has, irrespective of Toony's alignment.  But if Toony's scum, NJW is scum.

[Imp]

Oh, and Golden Mountains.  Page in NJW's hands is that.  If NJW is town, keep him alive.  If he's scum, those golden mountains mean nothing.  Even if we don't elim him, those golden mountains he promised hide death to pro-town, and any 'promise' isn't real.

[Elephant Parade]

I would rather be dead if Max is town. I wasn't thinking about the ramifications. I apologize about that, I think this is an understandable position for any player that has been reading Day 2.

Entirely believable. I still find it a little alarming, though.

Does anyone see a universe where Toony is scum and NJW isn't?

If you think Toony is scum, go for NJW.

I can see a universe where Toony is town and plays as he has, irrespective of Toony's alignment.  But if Toony's scum, NJW is scum.

I could see Toony/you, so...

Crystalizedmire: Could you post a read list?

[Imp]

I could see Toony/you, so...

Crystalizedmire: Could you post a read list?

Agreed.  You're actually seeing continuation of FBYOR, from me at least.  And more like FoU/EJ play, which I can't keep up my end except for the flip of:

My preferences of the survival of people who might be not town.

I get that Toony's sus.  I still think Toony is town.

I do not support a Toony elim today, period.  I do not prefer that anyone else supports it, though I am aOK with anyone stating they think Toony is sus, but if Toony were flipped and shows town, my other suspicions are....

However, I am 100% okay with suspicions about Toony being openly discussed, checked on, verified, and reasonable expectations set of Toony.

I think Toony is town.  I think Toony could be not town, but that is incredibly unlikely.  However, I don't currently have strong mechanical proof of this.

If Toony is scum:

Toony once 'offered' me this, which I loved and offer back to Toony, this-game form of it.

At this point I'm hoping Imp is scum so I can enjoy watching them squirm as we make them dance the supercop dance and also not break Hector's post restriction. Continuously having to help the town, until eventually...there's no one left to inspect. Their batteries run out, and the dancing toy stops moving.

We now only have the bottom part, for today at least.

I'm kinda open to a NJW flips mafia D2, so EJ should flip Toons (page is out of play, that's an option, and a really good one, maybe... not sure, if NJW is mafia).

But Toony-imp courtesy, I'd be real glad if we need to kill Toony, that we kill him last of the needed kills.

That's irrelevant, personal preference.  But would be nice.  This game, we have no time to waste, unless we got really lucky and the scum asked for roles fit only for messing around uselessly.

Also, I very much want CM's reads.  Please let's not hammer before folks do their work, TOONY or ANYONE

[Imp]

I would rather be dead if Max is town. I wasn't thinking about the ramifications. I apologize about that, I think this is an understandable position for any player that has been reading Day 2.

if you are town, I need you.  Be you, sure.  But do your job.  Save me from the anti-town.  Don't help them.  Help me.  Forget the hell you're going through.  I'm sorry you have people that like to lord power over you lording power over you.  I didn't cause it and can only stop it for highly pro-town reasons.

Be the hero you are.  Save me from anti-town.  You're Toony.  I prize you.

[Elephant Parade]

Imp: I know I have driven this into the ground, but by my estimate, you are responsible for ~450 of the 1628 posts since the game started. And your posts tend to be quite long. Surely you see how this is a problem? Surely you see how this is making reluctance to engage with you NAI, which is unfortunate because it means scum could ignore you and get away with it?

[TricMagic]

Mostly sayig where some of the townie comes from. Though I've also checked the votes. NJW ... Well, might as well go through them.

On profiles, you can click Show Posts to follow along.

1st vote: Max, web, and NJW are voting Quarque. We kinda skipped rvs a bit. Fal/Sof are going for Max. (NAI here, only pointing it out cause it' the start vote.) NJW warned early on against targeting them cause chaos.
Next vote isn't that different. Sof has switched to web, I vote sof, and multi eliminations are on the table. Cue sof spam out. Vote after that I'mon web too. (Purely to showcase the truth of the power.)

Afterwards, votes spread out. This is a good point to read from, as we votes NJW and NJW offers to trade for the page shortly after this. Your reads are also at the top of the page Imp. 2/3 isn't bad.

NJW then goes after fallacy, while webadict sticks to NJW. At this point, with NJW scum, this would be to show distance. However, I don't think webadict makes those sorts of plays. Furthermore, where is Toony? (Next vote has them join NJW on Fallacy.) At this point, the trade is also finalized, one bible page for a wishbone. This doesn't change throughout the rest of the day.

Spoiler: Max Questioning For Reasons (click to show/hide)

How is this web stuff and behavior pro-town?

How is it anti-town?

Does web, as mafia, trade an emerald for an apple just to confirm Quarque's role?
Does web, as town, trade an emerald for an apple just to confirm Quarque's role?

I'm not really seeing why I should be worried. This reminds me of the Superdorf thing.

Next vote, not much changes. Jack voting for Max, Quarque already voting max..

Next vote is here. Quarque switched to webaict, NJW/Toony remain locked on Fallacy. Crystal has gained 3 votes, in the form of Elephant Parade, webadict, and Maximum Spin.
Discounting the votes on Crystal helping prove them town, Crystal's vote stays locked here until end of day. Crystal is not the partner. As proof of how looking at votes can provide insight and supplement things.
On next vote, Toony joins the Crystal train. NJW has unvoted.

The vote after, max spin has moved to webadict, and NJW moved onto Maxspin. The first doesn't stay there long, moving back to crystal. Along with web joining. Sof has garned the 3 votes, a fourth from Toony next. At this point sof is in lynch territory, only thing left is the second. (thematically, I don't think it went that way, just saying it this ay for the argument.)

Sof joins the webadict vote.Quarque too. Elephant moves to Crystal, webadict moves to sof, as does Euchrejack.
Imp, Crystal, Sof, and Quarque. These make up ths vote on webadict.
Elephant Parade, FallacyofUrist, Maximum Spin. These make up the vote on Crystal. Max then switched to sof, making it a 5 person vote at end of day. NJW remained on max spin until end of day with voting web and unvoting just in case my double lynch was wonky..

The takeaway from this is that NJW did not use their vote during the day.
The most voted by NJW were Max and Fal. It never really interacted with the webadict shifts to save webadict. webadict sorta gave up on changing the vote, but that was by the end.


I got something for Max in the spoiler, mostly a question why postthat, but it's NAI. Just an interesting tidbit during this vote analysis.

[Maximum Spin]

@Max: Would you mind actually voting NJW?

Sure, when I'm caught up on the thread.

MS, you and items.  Do you have any general issues with items beyond you don't change them?  Can you use them normally and such?  I'd prefer a form of 'that wouldn't be pro-town to answer' to a lie - and truth otherwise, but I'm absolutely not gonna press you on this answer.

Not a thing as far as I know. I didn't start with any, but nothing in my role says I can't have them or can't use them or anything.

@Max:
I got the exact opposite impression of NJW when I reread D1. In fact, they're the player I felt the strongest about on my reread. I couldn't tell who was Web's ally, but what I could tell was that NJW was not mafia.

Why would NJW willingly want my Bible Page? It would hamper him every night in this game now. And if he tries to get rid of it then we'll know because another player will receive it and tell everybody that NJW is scum.

Secondly, it's a fact that NJW has a second wincon because no other player has counterclaimed. I have proof there's only one second wincon. I also do not believe NJW is lying about what their wincon is because if so they've been keeping the charade up since D1 when they desired my Bible Page so that mafia would be forced to target him. These are the actions of someone who has the second wincon they have claimed.

I believe NJW is town here.

I admit I always suspect NJW because of his playstyle, but could you tell me what about your reread of d1 possibly made him look town to you, other than wanting the Bible page? I don't think this game is that mechanically easy. In particular, what from my big post do you disagree with? Every single post of his I read from d1 just made me feel worse about him.

Is it necessarily pro-town to counterclaim having a second wincon? Is it necessarily town that has a second wincon? If NJW wants to control the Bible page for unrelated reasons, do you think he is unable to make up a second wincon, even if he perhaps already has a different one, that is consistent with that desire?

I don't think NJW is playing well. That doesn't mean my read is necessarily right, although I struggle to comprehend what town value you could possible see in that d1. I'm comfortable lynching him or EuchreJack today because I'm convinced at least one is scum. In fact, if I believe EuchreJack that he needs to be lynched twice, I DEFINITELY want to lynch EuchreJack so we can get the first one out of the way.

If NJW flips scum and the game doesn't end, I'd have to assume, at this point, that his partner is you.

I got something for Max in the spoiler, mostly a question why postthat, but it's NAI. Just an interesting tidbit during this vote analysis.

I don't understand the question. Because no question was actually stated.

[Maximum Spin]

By the way. Somewhere in this giant mess, someone accused me of "inviting NJW to tie the vote" at the end of d1. Would you please quote where you see me doing this? Because I don't remember having any interest in doing that at all.

[ToonyMan]

@Tric:
I think Crystal is probably not mafia either, just from reading D1.

@Imp:
I would argue your behavior is not just anti-town, but anti-game because nobody wants to play. You've definitely crushed most player's spirits. Although Tric seems fine, I guess he's immune or has infinite willpower.

@Max:
Can you full-claim please? I suspect you more when you're clammy about your role since you did this as SK in FBYOR6.

If you've already claimed your role can I get clean synopsis or link to it? I remember you mentioning a Bazaar but I think you need to be fully transparent at this point.

At this point I just want to believe Jack and Elephant are town. Which leaves Max and FoU in my eyes.

[ToonyMan]

The reasons why FoU is on my scumlist again is because I now understand how the Wishbone actually works and I don't feel like suspecting Jack anymore.

[Elephant Parade]

By the way. Somewhere in this giant mess, someone accused me of "inviting NJW to tie the vote" at the end of d1. Would you please quote where you see me doing this? Because I don't remember having any interest in doing that at all.

That was me in the Town Hall near the start of the day:

Re: Max: You're probably already thinking of this, but Max invited NJW to tie the vote at EoD

I was misremembering a bit, it's more like you floated the possibility as a what-if and then discarded it:

Okay, that's how I thought it worked.

Now, between us, we could make it a three-way tie with CM. Part of me wants to see how that goes, but I don't see how it could possibly be a good idea to make it so we don't even know what happens.

And no, I don't want a web lynch, but I'm really doubting a sofanthiel lynch either, with this whole DADT thing going on. I guess this is the spread we're stuck with, though.

[Imp]

@Imp:
I would argue your behavior is not just anti-town, but anti-game because nobody wants to play. You've definitely crushed most player's spirits. Although Tric seems fine, I guess he's immune or has infinite willpower.

Hey, no probs.  I can totally make this my last game.  Sorry this couldn't be us this game, but it requires us having the same wincon, or me being totally fooled that we do.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW7XdVrTN5w

[Maximum Spin]

@Max:
Can you full-claim please? I suspect you more when you're clammy about your role since you did this as SK in FBYOR6.

I'm always clammy about my role.

What do you even mean by "full-claim"? I remember we had a disagreement about this in FBYOR6, because I did but it wasn't good enough for you.