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Author Topic: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D3 - GAME OVER - TOWN VICTORY  (Read 59237 times)

Imp

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1230 on: February 02, 2024, 01:47:54 pm »

As for 'peace'.  Based on the flips we've seen alone.

I do not think we can count on 'peace'.  Powerful folks, with various powers moving towards whatever their interests are.

Some of us play hard to our wincons, some have other interests.  I don't know if CM's theft helps her wincon for sure, or just might; if it helps because 'this is the answer I need to help town' or 'maybe this'll work well and I can find a way to make good of it'.

But I don't think we have 'a lot of time' here.  I see web, sof, and Qua's roleflips and hear you guys that say "I don't have a lot of options".

I wonder if I should vote those folks for being lying scum, protect them for being town that have something pro-town to hide, or after the game see if some of us will teach the rest of us how to pick spheres and combine role requests maybe plus telling nqt what we'd prefer to have to play with (instead of it being the mod's job to find a way to make it work/read your mind).

I dunno.  This game is crazy-awesome, I think.

Not peace-awesome, though.
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Imp

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1231 on: February 02, 2024, 01:56:26 pm »

Toons.  Speaking of which.  As of D2, imagine web's flip at full unlock, and maybe other stuff gained too.  Let's say he could do 20 actions a night, but 7 are steal emerald if emerald and may not fire, and 5 are stuff not currently showing on his flip because he hadn't gained them yet, but they're somehow chained to his other actions or free, so he can do it all.

Any idea how much of that you can track?  Or sof, imagine him spun up to high development.  Look at those two roles, and compare what you can do, and think about how you can tell if people using stuff like that are doing it for or against town.

Your pro-town use of your power is finding the folks who are doing harm to town any way you can.  Only you know what you can do.  But that's what we need done if it can be done, unless you know how to do something better - and you might.  I don't know your role.  But I recommend you ask up to a million questions of nqt.

Spoiler: Sofanthiel (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Webadict (click to show/hide)
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Elephant Parade

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1232 on: February 02, 2024, 01:58:14 pm »

I think the second wincon is mostly just a distraction. It would be nice if whoever had it would come forward, putting the topic to rest and helping confirm Toony's night action, but aside from that it doesn't feel important to me.

Second wincon-haver: pls claim
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Elephant Parade

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1233 on: February 02, 2024, 02:02:03 pm »

To be clear, I'm not 100% convinced that there is actually someone with a second wincon. If Toony is scum then saying he inspected that sphere and found one person is a genius play—it's plausible even if false since an actual person with a second wincon likely wouldn't claim it, it could be true even if he made it up, it spreads fear and doubt. I think Toony's logic for why he did it as town is plausible, though, even if it seems like a really silly use of the power to me compared to, idk, inspecting some other sphere and seeing if the number of people who claim it matches the number of people who claim it matches the number he got.
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Imp

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1234 on: February 02, 2024, 02:27:02 pm »

My reads have not changed.  But priority matters.

Toons, NJW, Tric:  I stand with.  If I'm wrong about them being town, that's gonna suck.  I'm prepping for that as best I can, but I have far better uses of my time.

CM, FoU:  Shape up.  You're probably town.  The scum we fight are probably kinda like web's role.  Try to think about how you can help town in all you do, presuming you're town.  Consider what would likely hurt town the least, likely help town the most.  We could be fighting Cthulhu of the 13 spheres, with 25 actions a night.  Or we could be fighting more limited scum, but this ain't the time for games.

EJ:  Keep shaping up.  I get that you love private chats.  Whatever, hidden or not... better be serving town and serving it well, because Cthulhu will eat your chat and not even burp.

EP and Max:  easy.  If you're town, act it/keep acting it.

EP wasn't as high on my scum reads as Max.  EP as town didn't like how I played in FBYOR6 either.  Loads of mean stuff said about me in their private chat as well as some in the thread itself, so that's NAI, it's all the rest that goes with it that matters.

Max, time for your death dance, when you have time.  Thing is, I'm not convinced you're anti-town.  If you're scum, I think you valued your life higher than web's, and I see web's flip - but I think you know how to negotiate for the role you want, so I bet you have an awesome role and am genuinely surprised if you don't.  Must be exhausted/demoralized.  I was too in FBYOR6, twice, hardcore.  They killed the player who was my lock-for-key, then I got thrown into a role nearly the opposite of all that I most loved (but least it wasn't that horrible meme-thing).  You still have a wincon.  If you're town, we're probably fighting Cthulhu of the 25 actions a phase, so... what the flip are you doing?  If I waste an elim on you and you're town, that's horrible.

Max, I'm so sorry your favorite person died.  I saw how you handled last game, the favoritism and bias, how you rewrote rules to please and help him.  It's okay to want to please someone.  But you're not God here, and I'm sorry I was part of taking your favorite person away, but that is the game and how to play it, and I hope if we're of compatible wincons you're still playing for your wincon, hope you're getting the rest you need too.

If we had to lynch right now, my priority is:

Max, EP, EJ, FoU, CM, Toons, Tric, NJW.  That's my reads, most anti-town to most town.

I am 100% against a Toons elim today.  But I am very open to evidence and cases against Toons, if anyone has them - but if I see incorrect reasoning, I'll challenge it.  And it's too soon for a hammer.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1235 on: February 02, 2024, 02:35:16 pm »

Are you also 100% against a Tric or NJW lynch?
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Imp

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1236 on: February 02, 2024, 02:48:25 pm »

Are you also 100% against a Tric or NJW lynch?

For today, yes.

Cases against them are extremely valuable, if you got them.  It would take something amazing for me to consider those three not-town.  I can explain why if you have concerns about my reasoning - I explained all my reads in detail D1.  Not much has changed D2, and that's with me adjusting for web's roleflip, but I read him as likely scum that only looked more scum to me since a bit before I voted him D1, and I read everyone during D1 in connection to him as best I could.  I haven't actually gone back and re-read D1, and I might catch some stuff I didn't catch as we played it.

Honestly, you're the one my view's changed the most from D1, and it is a downgrade.  I will probably reread all of D1 but I want more of D2 first.  I'm 100% against an early hammer too.  I still keep thinking of questions to ask nqt for one thing.  I'm only up to 912,523, and we've joked about a million, but I keep finding legit new questions to ask and getting answers that correct my understanding, sometimes in big ways.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1237 on: February 02, 2024, 02:55:46 pm »

Are you also 100% against a Tric or NJW lynch?

For today, yes.

Cases against them are extremely valuable, if you got them.  It would take something amazing for me to consider those three not-town.  I can explain why if you have concerns about my reasoning - I explained all my reads in detail D1.  Not much has changed D2, and that's with me adjusting for web's roleflip, but I read him as likely scum that only looked more scum to me since a bit before I voted him D1, and I read everyone during D1 in connection to him as best I could.  I haven't actually gone back and re-read D1, and I might catch some stuff I didn't catch as we played it.

Honestly, you're the one my view's changed the most from D1, and it is a downgrade.  I will probably reread all of D1 but I want more of D2 first.  I'm 100% against an early hammer too.  I still keep thinking of questions to ask nqt for one thing.  I'm only up to 912,523, and we've joked about a million, but I keep finding legit new questions to ask and getting answers that correct my understanding, sometimes in big ways.
OK. I figured you only mentioned Toonyman because he was the one on the docket, but I wanted to be sure.
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Crystalizedmire

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1238 on: February 02, 2024, 02:56:40 pm »

I don't really have anything to say and my opinions on everybody haven't changed.
I still think that Elephant Parade is mostly likely scum. They should know better about how Imp acts and tried to get me eliminated instead of Webadict(a flipped mafia member). Maximum Spin is also a likely scum candidate because Quarque died. Quarque stated that they think the scum team is Maximum Spin + Toony + Webadict. However, Quarque also had a super protect so it isn't that alignment indicative. Also, Maximum Spin could've tied the votes at the end of day 1. Next are Toony and Fallacy who I think are suspicious for different reasons. Toony pressure voted me and said I reacted well under pressure even though I don't think I did. Fallacy for general vibes and voting on me when day1 was about to end. But if either of them flips mafia, I doubt the other is even if the scum team is composed of three people.
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EuchreJack

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1239 on: February 02, 2024, 03:08:43 pm »

@Imp: Fair enough.
Just an FYI: Fallacy is probably town, as you mentioned.
Unfortunately, Fallacy has shown an inclination towards voting Toonyman.
If your response towards Fallacy is to vote him, then you are NOT voting to eliminate Scum. So, if you could show some forgiveness and kindness towards Fallacy, that would help Toonyman and Town.

But yeah, anyone else votes Toonyman, and you can feel free to vote them.

Imp

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1240 on: February 02, 2024, 03:09:48 pm »

Max.  You probably know my mind, preferences, triggers, and behaviors intensely well after your interactions with me last game, where you were God to me, and I sang my dreams to you, and you patiently allowed until you shut the game down in service to your chosen one and your needs and wants at the time.

I read you in small part as knowing that you probably can't shake me from you, so why bother even speaking.

Two reasons:  Come help your team.  If you are scum, it's misfortunate that most of the moves that probably help you with most of the other players will make you look more scummy me and vice versa.  Useful if you can just play for town, sucks if you genuinely can't.  You probably already know:  I like those who play towards a town wincon.  If you're wrong about web, but could be or are town - you're as awful to me as anyone else who was against a web elim - that's not the issue to me.  Town doesn't know, so it's plausible.

If you're town, again, come help your team.  You're real useful, I've read games with your play.  You're being listened to even if you're not being obeyed.  You may or may not be able to change who is elim today, but you might change who is elim tonight (if any) and who is elim D3.  I figure, as town you care.  Then again, AFM, where you self-hammered as town.  I'm not ready for a hammer today, thanks for not somehow causing one, if that's your only remaining interest.  But... that game.  Town had it.  Scum was trapped.  If you're town I don't think you think town has this for really sure.  So, if you're town, please come help me, even if you're right about dying today.  I'll be really sorry and use everything I can for a town win - and yes, it's possible for me to see you as town.

No matter what, again, I grovel in gratitude.  You know my mind and you can step on me in ways that hurt, and you've chosen not to, this time, no matter what.  I notice and value that highly, though I can't call that anything but NAI.  But I cannot express how much I appreciate it, and how much it will be useful to you in the distant future, I hope.  I mean to play civilly and towards our mutual enjoyment long into the future, best as I can.
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Imp

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1241 on: February 02, 2024, 03:22:04 pm »

@Imp: Fair enough.
Just an FYI: Fallacy is probably town, as you mentioned.
Unfortunately, Fallacy has shown an inclination towards voting Toonyman.
If your response towards Fallacy is to vote him, then you are NOT voting to eliminate Scum. So, if you could show some forgiveness and kindness towards Fallacy, that would help Toonyman and Town.

But yeah, anyone else votes Toonyman, and you can feel free to vote them.

I hear you.  That's not really how I work... necessarily.  I think Toons has been voted a few times, but you don't have to bother counting the number of times I've voted this game in response.  I mean, you can if you want to, but saving time, I've used my vote once this game.  On a scum who called that not scumhunting, teehee I guess is a good response to that.

Also, silly stuff like Tric said Tric wasn't speaking to me anymore at one point, then EJ said EJ wasn't speaking to me anymore at a later point, and Tric calling that as part of EJ being scummy - maybe.  To me that stuff's NAI.  I'm reading everything, and I'm scared.  Of the remaining anti-town.  They exist, because game isn't over.  I'm obsessed with anti-town.

I think we face a remaining anti-town more like web but better, than more like qua but mafia.  I have no mechanical reason for that; if I thought we face qua-scum I'd feel like Tric claimed, "job done, coast the rest of the game".  Nah.  And Tric's not gonna do that either, if things go the way I hope/expect, but I can't give a timeline or anything.  Also, wtf how can any of us be 'powerless' D2 after losing 2 items and using a 1-shot.  And Tric didn't even touch my question about my hypothetical, to explain his thinking, past his earlier kind headpat/fingersnap of 'and you're sure that's townie to do, Imp?', which is my interpretation of it.

But nah, I think we face a better and bigger brother scum brother to web; one who makes web look like the weaker brother.  Gotta find scum, I am obsessed.  NQT was very kind to me, he didn't give me dreams I liked better than my wincon, while giving me my dreams.  FoU said 'Imp, I read your heart and soul, and here, chase this into infinity for me, you can reach it' - or I misunderstood that.  nqt has a different touch.

We have anti-town to find, and I don't have time to care about if FoU wants Toons dead.  I am seriously considering if I need Toons dead, and desperately hoping I don't.  But I am reading everything, absolutely everything I can.  This game is so scary to me, if I actually had that theoretical item that could kill everyone but me, right now, I would right now use it, ensuring the win of town and sof.  This game's fun, but it's scary.  I think I read Cthulhu of the 13 spheres and 25 actions out there, or something else rippling the water that bad.  That affects my current elim priority list.  But for once, me who swore to Fal when Fal was about to be Most Esteemed to me and I didn't even know yet - that I would play fair... that is seriously strained for me.  This game is scary.  If I wasn't so scared, I'd want it to go on quite a while, this is a really fun game for me for a lot of reasons (I also like fear, but this is really scary).
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NJW2000

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1242 on: February 02, 2024, 03:24:26 pm »

 Ok. I have the second wincon - I win and leave the game if targeted by scum on three consecutive nights.

It’s pretty dumb, and can only really be achieved if I know who the mafia are, in which case I just plan on killing them instead. But it would be fun to achieve it in a way that furthers town, which is why I want the bible page. It does feel like it was made for me and my role.

I picked second wincon because they’re silly and give me an intrinsic advantage over other players, and I’ve always found it annoying when other people had them.



I am genuinely town-aligned in my motivations here, because the second wincon is something I have very little control over, and thus is not only an unimpressive way to win the game, but a poor way to try to win the game.

I understand if that makes people trust me less, and it should. It shouldn’t make people trust me a LOT less though - I didn’t need to reveal this, I just wanted to get the discussion over.



Toonyman: who did you think might have been playing to a second wincon? Why did you decide to share the information today? And given a second wincon would probably make someone behave more 3p than town, were you hoping to use the info for scumhunting or 3p hunting?

Which, by the way, you’re still talking about. Most people would stick to the straight-and-narrow after a D1 like yours.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1243 on: February 02, 2024, 03:37:14 pm »

Max, time for your death dance, when you have time.  Thing is, I'm not convinced you're anti-town.  If you're scum, I think you valued your life higher than web's, and I see web's flip - but I think you know how to negotiate for the role you want, so I bet you have an awesome role and am genuinely surprised if you don't.  Must be exhausted/demoralized.  I was too in FBYOR6, twice, hardcore.  They killed the player who was my lock-for-key, then I got thrown into a role nearly the opposite of all that I most loved (but least it wasn't that horrible meme-thing).  You still have a wincon.  If you're town, we're probably fighting Cthulhu of the 25 actions a phase, so... what the flip are you doing?  If I waste an elim on you and you're town, that's horrible.

Max, I'm so sorry your favorite person died.  I saw how you handled last game, the favoritism and bias, how you rewrote rules to please and help him.  It's okay to want to please someone.  But you're not God here, and I'm sorry I was part of taking your favorite person away, but that is the game and how to play it, and I hope if we're of compatible wincons you're still playing for your wincon, hope you're getting the rest you need too.
This is take two on this post because there's no point in me losing my temper here.

Your understanding of what happened in Supernormal is completely contrary to reality. Your relentless pushing it after the game completely killed my enthusiasm to that game to the point that I never want to think about it again. The fact that you bring it up here makes me wish I were scum so I could kill you. There's no question that I would have killed you n1 if I were, for a million reasons, but that's beside the point and it's just gonna be taken as WIFOM.

webadict is not "my favorite person" just because our playstyles mesh well. There are several people, including a couple in this game, I could say that about. I've also only played with scum webadict twice before - once where he was mafia in  MVM3 round 5, and once where he was a mally in FBYOR 5, which I barely paid attention to after getting killed anyway. And you know what? I was completely taken in both times! Didn't see it coming at all. I hate to admit that, but that's how it is. I don't think I even scumread EuchreJack in FBYOR 5 where he was the mafia member web was blatantly protecting. So frankly, what happened here is completely characteristic for me and I'll probably fall for it again.

I don't understand the point of your request for a readslist pretending I don't know that web was scum (and sofanthiel was 3p and Quarque was town), as if that somehow doesn't matter. It would basically just be my reads as of the end of d1. But I was prepared to provide that anyway. I know you'll just assume that's me bullshitting to hide something I have no conceivable reason to hide regardless of team, and I don't care, but I did in fact have it written out. But right now I am just not going to interact with you further.



His push against Quarque starting around here also feels a bit forced for Max... It's very literal, scumreads Quarque for suggesting Max is rolefishing, and the sort of thing that's likely to trap a newer player who doesn't want to give away role information. He also didn't warn me that a tie would be a bad plan, even though I suspect he had a pretty good idea of what we knew about Tric's elim power.
The first part is not how I was thinking about it, but whatever. The bolded part, though, I don't understand. Why would a tie be a bad plan? My understanding was that, in the event of a tie, the exact same thing would happen as would happen if there was one first place and one second place player, so it didn't make a difference. I cannot warn you about something I don't know.



I should probably reread the thread since start of day because I've skimmed a lot lately. Assuming I don't get hammered, I promise to do that at some point when I feel like it. Later.

Oh look another Imp post. I didn't even want it. Of course I'm not allowed to take some time and not be in the thread. And once I am back in the thread I am, of course, obligated to do everything demanded of me immediately and cannot take time to — I hit preview, now the Imp posts are MULTIPLYING, wonderful. #1238 was the bottom of the thread when I started, just so everyone can keep track — cannot, as I was saying, take time to try to organize my thoughts into something that isn't completely incoherent screaming. Right, I should try harder on that right now, huh.



Ok. I have the second wincon - I win and leave the game if targeted by scum on three consecutive nights.

It’s pretty dumb, and can only really be achieved if I know who the mafia are, in which case I just plan on killing them instead. But it would be fun to achieve it in a way that furthers town, which is why I want the bible page. It does feel like it was made for me and my role.
That's hilarious and I honestly wish I could help you with that.



Provided I survive this day, I'm gonna want to be able to confirm my actions again. So I'm going to open up a BAZAAR. Anyone have spheres you regret taking? Anyone have abilities you don't quite like in their current form? Anyone just want some new stuff because you're easily bored and distractible by shiny objects? Yes I'm going to have to rolefish to do this, sue me for taking spheres that sounded fun. I don't expect anybody to give me any information you don't want to, I thought this was a mafia game where we all understand how that works, sorry, still a little annoyed about the Quarque thing. Like yes I actually did assume that Quarque, and indeed every players, is a grown adult or adult-equivalent capable of choosing how much to explain without feeling obligated to spew information without even being asked an actual question. Moving on. I need some spheres to screw around with, so give me your best offers.
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Imp

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Re: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D2 Rotten Apples
« Reply #1244 on: February 02, 2024, 03:44:03 pm »

Cool.  I hear 'I keep the Page, I can handle it as is'.

If anyone else has a problem item, I'll trade the emerald for that, preferentially one that has an 'artefact' tag.  If you want to empower me, you will trade it to me, but the Page has a better use (if it even has that tag) than in my hands.  I still haven't heard anything that makes me think that Page belongs anywhere else than in NJW's hands.  I don't mind if it leaves play with him on... it would maybe be N4 the soonest, I guess, presuming all claims are true and the mafia 'helpfully' use the mafiakill and nobody else muddles with a kill.

NJW, I confirm I will actively avoid using any kill actions that I could use or know I could trigger - if any.  I don't claim if I have any, but I do claim to actively avoid knowingly using or triggering any.

But other artefact items, I have an auto that tells me there are 4 in play that are 'dangerous'.  It doesn't say dangerous to who.  I don't know if there are non-dangerous ones.  I have no preference unless it's probably better for town out of my hands - that's the Page in NJW's hands.

I am only interested at this time in trading for one artefact item.  I make no other requests and don't want anything else, though what happened last night was pretty cool, but I can't confirm really and I don't need what happened last night to happen again.

If there's a problem item and it doesn't have the artefact tag, I'll accept it, items are typically not a problem for me but I am willing to remove problems.  If the game lasts, I'll pay folks better prices for their help later.

But I can do 'good' pro-town things with one more artefact tag item, and I can trade a currently useless yellow chaos emerald for it.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.
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