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[Imp]

Joy.  Be aware folks, the wishbones probably can force the use of an already used ability, might want to discuss that with NJW, and confirm if it can work on the mafiakill (I have not yet seen a wishbone, so my ability to question about it accurately is very low).

As in,

scum A uses mafiakill on player C.
Player Y uses wishbone on scum A and Player B.

This actually probably allows the mafiakill to fire twice that same night, hitting either Player B if B also has a single target, hitting randomly if B doesn't have a single target.

I've asked about a similar thing that is not a wishbone.  The player can only use the ability once, but if something else can independently use it, then it can be used multiple times.

Joyously, my possible 'use it twice' thing cannot involve the mafiakill because of other limitations, so I don't have to worry about accidentally making a mafiakill happen twice like that.  But you wishbone folks probably could, so... think a lot maybe.

[Imp]

I don't have any single-target ability to randomize so NJW would have only randomized FoU last night onto a random player. It's unlikely that FoU is the Quarque killer because their action would have been randomized, it's too lucky for them to have hit the claimed doctor when that feels like the obvious mafiakill target.

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

Does wishbone overwrite what the player wanted to do themself?

If wishbone was used on FoU, and FoU was mafia, doing whatever on purpose, can wishbone prevent the intended target and instead force the wishbone outcome - it's not an extra thing?

If so my concern's not a concern, and wishbones are a great way to potentially control what folks do, period.

More explaining?  Or leave me and non-wishbone-having-seen-yet folks confused about this?

[Crystalizedmire]

I don't have any single-target ability to randomize so NJW would have only randomized FoU last night onto a random player. It's unlikely that FoU is the Quarque killer because their action would have been randomized, it's too lucky for them to have hit the claimed doctor when that feels like the obvious mafiakill target.

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

Does wishbone overwrite what the player wanted to do themself?

If wishbone was used on FoU, and FoU was mafia, doing whatever on purpose, can wishbone prevent the intended target and instead force the wishbone outcome - it's not an extra thing?

If so my concern's not a concern, and wishbones are a great way to potentially control what folks do, period.

More explaining?  Or leave me and non-wishbone-having-seen-yet folks confused about this?

It shouldn't because it doesn't have the redirection sphere.

[Crystalizedmire]

Have only skimmed through but:

I have the bible page. I should keep it to redirect the kill to me… I might ask for that apple as I can’t be 100% sure I’ll live. People treating it like a cursed item is weird: someone will get hit by the mafia kill, this just lets us control it.

I wishboned toony and FoU and somehow lost the wishbone doing that… I don’t get it but maybe somebody else will. Mechanical speculation unlikely to be crucial to the win in a closed game let alone a BYOR.

Wait, how do you have the wishbone? You exchanged it for the bible at the end of day 1, so you shouldn't have it.

[Imp]

Whew.  Figured out how to word the question.  I'm no longer scared of the Wishbone multiple-triggering the Mafiakill, and I'm not sure if it could set it off even if it hadn't been used - one of you people who actually has a wishbone probably needs to ask that question.

But going to ask a similar question in thread, so you folks that know the game better than I hopefully see the answer from the mod, and can ask your follow up questions if any.  I'm now certain that nothing I can currently do or already know I can do in the future can trigger the mafiakill to be used as an action, even if the mafia decided not to kill that night so there's a unused mafiakill just waiting to go.

I also suspect that the wishbone cannot trigger the mafiakill even if there's one waiting to be used, however I haven't seen a wishbone so I can't word the question perfectly, which might be something like:

NQT, in what ways is the Mafiakill ability different from other abilities in your game, and what can I know of 'other' ways it could be triggered, such as an item I might use?  (note I have not asked this generic a question, so if there's an item that can trigger it, I don't know about it, and I can't create that item no matter what based on what I currently know, because I have checked into that deeply).

But for you folks with the wishbone, you can ask specifically about that item if you see reason.

[TricMagic]

...but whatever. Web wanted Imp dead, and Web was mafia. Toony wants Imp alive, and seems townie enough. So we're not voting Imp today, even if this apple business is sus.
...
Ninja.
VERY SUS. 
But we're still not voting Imp.

@Imp: I don't want to talk with you any more. I explicitly have stated that we are NOT voting you.
If I continue this conversation, I don't think I can keep that promise. And I do NOT want to vote you.

ElephantParade is the correct vote. Ignoring Imp is also the correct move.

Gonna go ahead and say you're acting awfully suspisous Jack.

[notquitethere]

NQT, in what ways is the Mafiakill ability different from other abilities in your game, and what can I know of 'other' ways it could be triggered, such as an item I might use?

The mafiakill and abilities with the (mafiakill) sphere are special in the following ways:
- They can't be copied or stolen (town players can't end up with a mafiakill)
- They can be triggered by items and abilities, but are still limited to 1/night (unless the ability specifically says otherwise). So if scum have already used the mafiakill in a night, they can't be hypnotised into mafiakilling a second time. These kind of strategies came up in previous CYOMs, but that can't happen here.
- Mafiakill spheres also aren't observable on detection.
- In general, there shouldn't be straightforward mechanical ways of telling if someone does or does not have a mafiakill ability. This is in line with the design principle in this game that there are no alignment inspections.

[TricMagic]

So, does NJW need someone to hold the page tonight? I still have my Emerald.

Sure, free up the mafiakill to hit who you want to hit. If NJW can deal with it, they can deal with it.

I'm just going through old posts, but that's two I feel he need to comment on.

[TricMagic]

As much as it might be sheeping Imp. NJW, Imp, Crystal? and me are likely town. (Or as town as I ever get anyway.)

That puts scum within the stated leftovers. Gonna need to look through day 1 for patterns later. For now Unvote.

[EuchreJack]

...but whatever. Web wanted Imp dead, and Web was mafia. Toony wants Imp alive, and seems townie enough. So we're not voting Imp today, even if this apple business is sus.
...
Ninja.
VERY SUS. 
But we're still not voting Imp.

@Imp: I don't want to talk with you any more. I explicitly have stated that we are NOT voting you.
If I continue this conversation, I don't think I can keep that promise. And I do NOT want to vote you.

ElephantParade is the correct vote. Ignoring Imp is also the correct move.

Gonna go ahead and say you're acting awfully suspisous Jack.

How do?
I can't answer a question that you never ask.

So, does NJW need someone to hold the page tonight? I still have my Emerald.

Sure, free up the mafiakill to hit who you want to hit. If NJW can deal with it, they can deal with it.

I'm just going through old posts, but that's two I feel he need to comment on.

If you read further, it was just an option to be considered.

Recind all trade offers

And it's a trade. I can't make NJW accept.
I think NJW now looks fairly town, based upon his willingness to keep the Bible page and clear plan regarding it's use.

[EuchreJack]

As much as it might be sheeping Imp. NJW, Imp, Crystal? and me are likely town. (Or as town as I ever get anyway.)

That puts scum within the stated leftovers. Gonna need to look through day 1 for patterns later. For now Unvote.

I think this is accurate.

[Imp]

No, I remember that, and I'll get to it when I can focus long enough to type more than... this many sentences.

I want to point out that I asked Max for a list of reads of each living player, he responded:

Yeah... I can do that at some point. I don't think I've fully taken stock of the implications of web's flip yet.

That upsets me.  I get that Max is Max, and there's also life and busy and 'this is impossible now'.  I also get that Max was up incredibly long fighting to save web's life, ready to do anything possible for every so many hours - and I'm willing to say that is NAI, but exhausting, and he did it, and failed, and saw web was scum, which has to hurt no matter what Max's alignment is.  I would experience drain from what I believe Max went through, so I am sympathetic.

But I asked Max for his reads, and he gave that answer, which is not an answer.

And then he has been gone for I think close to 15 hours.  Which is also NAI.

But together with absolutely everything, adds up to Max is currently my top scum pick, but I'm still not sure.  And I want his delay and 'inability' to give a reads list, even when I clearly stressed, twice, that I want his reads of the people, not his reads in correlation to web's flip.

I think town could do that, and most players could do that.  I'm impressed and confused that Max can't/didn't/whatever.


Also, yay, I can confirm that I meet sof's wincon, just as I think Fal does.  Max, if you live to N2, please do not use any 'I can change you' abilities on me.  If you intend to try to help further sof's wincon and are allowed the chance - do that only if you have nothing townier to do.  Because there's other ways, you're not sof's only hope and even I who wants to help everyone who isn't anti-my-wincon would accept if we can't save sof to win with town.

[Imp]

Recind all trade offers

Wondered when and if you'd do that.  Helps prove you're not reading very carefully, and/or not understanding really well.  Your doing that doesn't matter, but it's interesting to see what it took to get you to do it and when you thought you should.

The most recent trade takes priority, and so feel free to submit replacement offers. "Withdraw trade" is not a valid trade offer.

[NJW2000]

FoU: I may be a little dissatisfied with unconventional trading for reasons related to gems. Is that what you meant by duped?

Imp: that's good to know, and I understand on the apple front. I think there's a reasonable chance I survive the night, and otherwise we don't get to absorb the kill, making this endless faffing about with the bible page pointless. I need to ask the GM something, it might be very counterproductive for me to have an apple in fact.

Crystallised Mire: I get more than one wishbone. Bully for me.

Everyone: don't use any other kills tonight, even if you're a vig, otherwise it may be pulled to me instead of the mafiakill, which I really don't want.

Since I didn't notice anything weirder than expected, I'm more interested in why you chose us, than what your ability actually did.

I suspect both of you, and wanted more information. Also wanted to see if Toony was hiding an ability with a single target (and so likely not setup knowledge).
To be honest, I had to make this decision fairly quickly as an irl thing came up. It may not have been my best play, but it's the one thing thus far this game that was just a bit outside of my control.

Sorry if I've missed anyone.




Brief Reads:

Town

CrystallisedMire: I think town, gave my reasons yesterday.
Imp: If this is the bus of the century, well done, but it's unusual to make someone who was eliminated last game for talking too much the buss-er
Tric: Yeah, this is town!Tric

...

Dunno
Elephant Parade: attempting to eliminate Sofa and CM is within EP's slightly boring town meta, though I don't love it.
EuchreJack: not sure, I'm in a hurry. He's hard defending Toony and acting somewhat chaotically... I think this is high-energy for scum!EJ just after losing scum!Webadict, unless that elim was part of the Masterplan. Slight town lean but saying some weird stuff.
Anyone I missed: sorry. I have to get a train.


Suspect:
Toonyman: he's being cooperative and looking useful today. Nonetheless, D1 does not paint him in a good light. Also, did he choose to check if anyone had a secondary wincon? Odd priority if so.
FoU: hyperfixation on Toony looks like distancing. Not helpful today otherwise. This post full of random chatter but half of it completely pointless, like the bit where he answers Tric's question and then replies to Toony's post answering Tric's question with "well, that answers your question". Not trying to solve.

Scum
MaximumSpin: actually saying he thinks I might be town at the end of D1 is completely out of character. Openly working with webadict D1, which yep, they sometimes do as town, but... hm. His push against Quarque starting around here also feels a bit forced for Max... It's very literal, scumreads Quarque for suggesting Max is rolefishing, and the sort of thing that's likely to trap a newer player who doesn't want to give away role information. He also didn't warn me that a tie would be a bad plan, even though I suspect he had a pretty good idea of what we knew about Tric's elim power.

[Imp]

(Or as town as I ever get anyway.)

Yeah.  You win some extra town cred from me (and you already had decently much) by pointing out why, if you could be reset, that might be a bad idea, especially if you are SK or there are any SK.  I don't think SK well yet, you are definitely the artist to learn from.

I have a request that I may not be able to need, if we're both alive D3 I'll confirm if it applies.  But I ask you to please consider if you will allow me to post before you do D3, should I do so within a reasonable amount of time (like within 7 hours of the day starting?  Game start time is a mess and my sleep time can be erratic, I think I need far less than 7 hours).