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[Imp]

Esteemed hector13:

Quite frankly, I don’t believe that Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist is going to completely fuck up the balance of the game by removing town’s only way of getting scum out of the game by giving scum an ability that allows a single scum player to be able to hammer on their own with double figures of players still in the game. That would be fuckin’ bananas.

I mean, you're both not listening to others (or even yourself from earlier this game), and really getting impassioned yourself.  This is worth swearing about to you?  This is worth insulting this Esteemed game?  Neat.  Well done, since it apparently is worth this to you, noted.

I wonder if you listen now:

If you recall the BYOR that I Fused with Shakerag, non-killing SKs have been done successfully, by giving them additional vote power and a vest mechanic. Since secretdorf seems to serve no investigative or protective role and lacks an agressive scumhunting attitude, I think that may be what we have here.

... earlier this game even, you yourself said, Esteemed Hector13...

Uh… I had 5 votes as a mafioso recently? Something like that. Would’ve been able to get more had I not painted myself into a corner.

So... your very emotional and strongly worded stuff... is illogical and self-and-other contradicted at best, right?

If I'm confused, by all means, I'm sure I'm not the only one.  Maybe calmly, reasonably, rationally explain whatever is so clearly townie about Esteemed Secretdorf?

Again, let's forget the votes...

Where's their scumhunting?

Where's the evidence they're anything but scum trying to hide really well?

Where do they look and act town?  Can you quote?  I have read every word they wrote about 5 times now.

I can't find it.  Help me see what you see?  Oh, and insulting the game, it's creator, and the other players doesn't help convince me of anything you'd want me to believe.

[hector13]

PPE: jesus wept

[Maximum Spin]

I agree that there's clearly no such third-party win condition, for the record. The Esteemed Whatshisname is definitely either town, or mafia, or one of other mentioned possibilities, except cult, which the Most Esteemed Fallacy is banned from using.

However, the second point being made was not that it's impossible that he isn't town, but that it would be ridiculous to give such a non-town player that much lynch control. I don't think I agree - it seems extremely reasonable for a hunter, fair for an SK, and conceivable for an -ally of any kind.  But it would surely be too much to give to a mafia player, not that that means that highest worthy previously mentioned wouldn't do it. He does make mistakes from time to time. Some might even say often! But that would be mean, so don't say that.

[Maximum Spin]

PPE: jesus wept

He's less than a week old, what do you want?

[hector13]

PPE: jesus wept

He's less than a week old, what do you want?

A time machine so I can go back and tell my slightly younger self it’s not worth it.

[Imp]

A time machine so I can go back and tell my slightly younger self it’s not worth it.

nods sympathetically  hey, I wanted one of those too.

Anyone got a time turner, a way to fix this?

So... Esteemed hector13?

Sorry for all the stress.

I really, genuinely am interested in being helped to understand why and how this Esteemed Secretdorf actually has been playing in a pro-town fashion.

Quotes and stuff.  I've actually and repeatedly read the whole thread.  And tried to understand us all

I make all kinds of mistakes.  But I may even remember stuff that a person themselves forgot they said in this very thread.  And I am open to hearing explanations and seeing clear evidence.

And I know a lot about gaslighting, manipulation, being bullied, being harmed.  It really, really isn't effective on me.  The way to get my cooperation is to actually get my cooperation.

If 'your player there' is town, you just need to show it clearly, help me understand how I missed this thing from the start of the game.  Show us all their scumhunting, their pro-town efforts.

Let's ignore the votes, since you want to.  Great, can you paint them as town?  Town doing everything they did?

Cause really, I can't.  And that's the problem here.

[The Canadian kitten]

Personally on the fence about Dorf, would definitely vote them next day if they hammered something today to push a spilt vote, or gained an additional vote next day.
I guess a concern about it is that the same argument can be made for me since I haven't really scumhunted (other than Sofa but that was only really because I got an successful inspect and them refusing to defend themself) and not really doing pro-town in my opinion (I been lurking and not adding anything cause lazyiness)

[Jim Groovester]

Imp, you are being incredibly unreasonable and demanding.

You're shitting all over the explanations of people who are providing genuine, good faith answers to the questions you pose, and you are then rejecting those explanations as inadequate because it's not the answer you're looking for, and then demanding they answer the same question again, and demanding they do so in a 'calm' and 'reasonable' fashion.

It is borderline disrespectful.

[Maximum Spin]

Okay, to be clear, Secretdorf will definitely have another vote tomorrow (unless Jim steals it) and will almost certainly have the majority of votes tomorrow.

Honestly. Let's just.

Secretdorf, please give me two vote counts to resolve this once and for all.

[Maximum Spin]

I mean, Esteemed all of the above.

[hector13]

I’d like a vote count too.

[Elephant Parade]

But BHK hasn't answered my question Why do you guys always hammer before people answer my questions 

[Maximum Spin]

Nobody's hammered anyone?

[Jim Groovester]

But BHK hasn't answered my question Why do you guys always hammer before people answer my questions 

Be noisier about getting answers.

[hector13]

Come on actually, if anyone asks for a vote count Esteemed Secretdorf gets votes? What would stop all their teammates asking every day?

Potential for lies aside, like, come on.