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[Maximum Spin]

Where the hell is this sudden Toony wagon coming from? I don't see how that's what we want to do today. A few people here look like they're trying to find a scapegoat, actually, but probably too many to be all scum.

I think you crept away from your push on me because nobody else bit and you didn't want to be the star of the show. Care to change my mind?

I... didn't creep away from pushing on you at all? I still genuinely think you're mafia and I thought I made that clear as recently as my last couple of posts. The idea that "nobody else bit and [I] didn't want to be the star of the show" is completely inconsistent with my personality. I'm regularly hanging on as a last lonely vote on someone at the end of d1, as town or scum. However, I am allowed to move my attention.

You literally quoted the post that asked the question, sofanthiel. The question was the very next line. What are you doing?

Answering stupid questions is for losers.
Not liking Caz here.

However, I still find TricMagic and hector13 suspicious(TricMagic is more suspicious than hector13).

TricMagic is not more suspicious than hector13.

I wish I had a vote count so I can see what to do.

[Elephant Parade]

Hector, I feel like you're treating sofanthiel differently from Crystallizedmire. You spent hours guiding Crystallizedmire into constructive contribution, but here you're just judging them unproductive and tossing out a vote. Why?

Are you saying you voted Caz solely because you found her the most suspicious player at that moment and for no other purpose?

Precisely.

Thank you for answering the question. I actually find that pretty plausible.

Why should I team up with my #2 scumread? How can you vote strategically when you think the outcome is fixed?

1. In that case, we have an overlapping goal.
2. If we organize, there's enough people to change the outcome.

There are two of us. This is a nine-player game. I don't even want to lynch Caz anymore so the overlap doesn't exist unless you scumread either MS or yourself. What?

Where the hell is this sudden Toony wagon coming from? I don't see how that's what we want to do today. A few people here look like they're trying to find a scapegoat, actually, but probably too many to be all scum.

I think you crept away from your push on me because nobody else bit and you didn't want to be the star of the show. Care to change my mind?

I... didn't creep away from pushing on you at all? I still genuinely think you're mafia and I thought I made that clear as recently as my last couple of posts. The idea that "nobody else bit and [I] didn't want to be the star of the show" is completely inconsistent with my personality. I'm regularly hanging on as a last lonely vote on someone at the end of d1, as town or scum. However, I am allowed to move my attention.

You literally quoted the post that asked the question, sofanthiel. The question was the very next line. What are you doing?

Answering stupid questions is for losers.
Not liking Caz here.

However, I still find TricMagic and hector13 suspicious(TricMagic is more suspicious than hector13).

TricMagic is not more suspicious than hector13.

I wish I had a vote count so I can see what to do.

I think you did creep away. You didn't reply to my answer to your question or otherwise push me in any way, nor had you pushed me at any point prior to that. Obviously you can move your attention, but if I'm one of your scumreads, why are you giving me seemingly no attention at all?

Your choice not to join either wagon makes me feel a little bit better about you, but not enough to move my vote.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Caz: 1: sofanthiel
Hector13: 1: ToonyMan
Maximum Spin: 1: Elephant Parade
Snowkiller: 1: Maximum Spin
sofanthiel: 1: Hector13
ToonyMan: 2: Crystalizedmire, TricMagic



Day ends ~5pm Pacific


Web gave me the code for the Mafia bot. I should get that up and running for this game.

[hector13]

I’ve been thinking it’s a newbie tied with a more experienced player for a bit. I was worried it might be you, but now I’m not so sure. Then again I think you’re the best player in terms of looking town, so… benefit of the doubt I guess. The next experienced player in line is Max.

So you're judging who my teammate is based solely on their skill level, regardless of how town they seem?  Isn't that a bit arbitrary? Who do you think it would be based on the actual interactions I've had and how I played?

You are a cheeky mare if you expect me to take you asking me that question when you’ve ignored me asking who you think is scum and town for the entire bloody day, m80.

… I’m using process of elimination, just not sharing my working out.

I think it’s one of you or Snowkiller right now, possibly even both, which would be a horrific baptism of fire for you but dems de breaks sometimes.

I’ve outlined why I think it’s not CM.

Who does that leave, if you’re not partnered with Snowkiller?

As for experienced players, from most to least town, Caz, Toony, EP, Max. Toony and EP are close run, could swap positions easily depending on what happens.

PPE: vote sofanthiel, Max.

PPE2: utterly false. I’ve demanded sofanthiel and Snowkiller give reads all day before I voted sofanthiel. From most recent to least:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494985#msg8494985

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494983#msg8494983

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494926#msg8494926 (not a demand as such, observing that sofanthiel and Snowkiller are ignoring me)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494904#msg8494904

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494891#msg8494891 (more commentary about indecisiveness)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494834#msg8494834 (sofanthiel answered this, but with statistics, which means nothing)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494673#msg8494673 (not a question, but telling Snowkiller effort is better than silence)

I could even add the stuff when I was guiding CM, since they can see what I want from that. The only reason I appeared to make more effort with CM was because CM actually responded to what I was doing.

[Elephant Parade]

At this point, sofanthiel is either scum or the easiest mislynch candidate in the world. If they turn out to be the latter, I'll be suspicious of anyone who joined their wagon late.

PPE2: utterly false. I’ve demanded sofanthiel and Snowkiller give reads all day before I voted sofanthiel. From most recent to least:

OK, fair point; I take that back entirely.

I don't think the difference between Crystallizedmire and sofanthiel's respective willingness to engage makes the former more town as opposed to more willing to play, but I suppose that's enough to make them a slightly less attractive lynch.

I'm also curious when and how I went from a townread to a scumread for you.

Eh, I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.

I don't really think it's either.

Currently I am happy with Hector or Elephant Parade's demise since one of them is mafia.

I’m disinclined to believe it’s EP so… come and ‘ave a go if you think yer ‘ard enough.

What changed? When?

[Maximum Spin]

I think you did creep away. You didn't reply to my answer to your question or otherwise push me in any way, nor had you pushed me at any point prior to that. Obviously you can move your attention, but if I'm one of your scumreads, why are you giving me seemingly no attention at all?

It's my understanding that you played here several years ago, before my time, right? This is very consistent with the attitude I expect from that time period, and I tend to mistake it for scummy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

I don't personally worry about "pushing" people. I'm a shady fucker. I play my cards close to the vest, I ignore questions I deem beneath me, I will completely drop one thing to follow up something else. I keep my positions fluid. I simply don't see what town would gain if I focus more on you right now. I made my point that you're on my radar; if I reach the point where I think you're the right lynch for today, I'll vote for you and try to encourage others to do the same.

PPE: vote sofanthiel, Max.

I really don't think sofanthiel is a better vote than Snowkiller, who still hasn't voted.
We must award him the hat.

[hector13]

@EP You’re not a scumread. I think Max is more likely than you to be scum if sofanthiel is not teamed with Snowkiller. You’re fourth in line, at worst.

sofanthiel and Snowkiller have had plenty of opportunity to take part. They decided to instead make statistical arguments over you being town, and against a lynch, despite plenty of proddings for scum and town reads, watching other people give scum and town reads, and watching me coach CM as to what they should be producing.

There’s only so much leeway I’m willing to give them as newbies before I have to consider it as something else.

@Max has sofanthiel’s votes convinced you they are less likely to be scum than Snowkiller?

[Maximum Spin]

@Max has sofanthiel’s votes convinced you they are less likely to be scum than Snowkiller?

Ehh, no, that's fair.
If he flips mafia, we're going for Snowkiller next, right? I'm always down for a trade.

[hector13]

As it stands they are… basically the same to me. I would prefer sofanthiel because they seem to be a bit more maliciously ignorant (if that makes any sense, see them ignoring EP’s questions recently as an example) than Snowkiller.

I’m too much of a purist to trade votes though. Should Snowkiller remain a scumread on D2, or you can convince me they’re the best lynch, then sure.

[Maximum Spin]

I’m too much of a purist to trade votes though. Should Snowkiller remain a scumread on D2, or you can convince me they’re the best lynch, then sure.

You don't actually have to promise. Anything could happen between then and now. I just mean, as things currently stand.

All right, I really do accept your point. sofanthiel

[TricMagic]

I don't really see why Elephant is a protected species by a lot of people. Crystals' still showcasing good posts, so still town read for me.

... My vote on Toony still stands as the most likely info lynch day 1. Though a single vote alone doesn't grant much.

[Elephant Parade]

@EP You’re not a scumread. I think Max is more likely than you to be scum if sofanthiel is not teamed with Snowkiller. You’re fourth in line, at worst.

sofanthiel and Snowkiller have had plenty of opportunity to take part. They decided to instead make statistical arguments over you being town, and against a lynch, despite plenty of proddings for scum and town reads, watching other people give scum and town reads, and watching me coach CM as to what they should be producing.

There’s only so much leeway I’m willing to give them as newbies before I have to consider it as something else.

@Max has sofanthiel’s votes convinced you they are less likely to be scum than Snowkiller?

Ah, I assumed that the back half of each read list = the back half of your greater read list, which would put me on the scum end, but I suppose that wasn't the case.

I've already made my feelings on sofanthiel clear. As for Snowkiller, I think they're merely living up to their claim of being a passive D1 player, which makes them more or less a null read to me. I don't like how they've ignored prods, though.

It's my understanding that you played here several years ago, before my time, right? This is very consistent with the attitude I expect from that time period, and I tend to mistake it for scummy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

I don't personally worry about "pushing" people. I'm a shady fucker. I play my cards close to the vest, I ignore questions I deem beneath me, I will completely drop one thing to follow up something else. I keep my positions fluid. I simply don't see what town would gain if I focus more on you right now. I made my point that you're on my radar; if I reach the point where I think you're the right lynch for today, I'll vote for you and try to encourage others to do the same.

Yes, I did.

Your approach doesn't make much sense to me but Toony vouched for it being your usual playstyle. I'll have to read some of your games during N1.

[Caz]

Not liking Caz here.

Why is this by itself? I demand recognition. You seem like you are just following the crowd with everything you say.

If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.

Question: would you rather be lynched over Toony?

[Maximum Spin]

Why is this by itself? I demand recognition. You seem like you are just following the crowd with everything you say.

Because you're not more than, like, fifth scummiest player and I don't think there are five mafia in a nine player game. Cool your jets.

Also I can't help it if other people agree with me.

[ToonyMan]

ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.

If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.

Do you trust Elephant then? Or me for that matter?

I think Caz is right in her assessment.

Toony suggesting sofanthiel has been heavily engaged with the game makes… very little sense to me, so I’m alright leaving my vote there for the time being.

I have no idea why you think this unless it's not your genuine feelings.

Which bit?

Both bits.

ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.

I think Caz is probably genuinely paranoid of me.

I'm more suspicious of players (Crystal, Hector) that nod their head and go "yeah, makes sense to me".

Sofanthiel seems more like a player who would say "yeah, makes sense to me" than me(though I'm still someone who would go along with the more experienced) though I partially think it is because they're a newbie rather than any intentional malice.

I mean, you both joined a vote by agreeing with another player.

And yeah I agree I don't think it's intentional malice from Sofanthiel.

However, I don't see why you trust them so much yet incredibly suspicious of me. In fact your first post wasn't that much better than my first post. You were quicker to engage in discussion because you were more experienced not because I'm scum.

It's relative, I found you more suspicious than the other new players. I've explained my feelings about that.

I'm on the fence whether you're mafia or not, and don't think you're a good vote.

I don't really like how Hector (and Max joining) are in newbkiller mode.

I don't really see why Elephant is a protected species by a lot of people. Crystals' still showcasing good posts, so still town read for me.

... My vote on Toony still stands as the most likely info lynch day 1. Though a single vote alone doesn't grant much.

Info-lynching is bad.

I'm liking Elephant Parade more. I don't think they're a good vote.

I think Max is at least right that Snowkiller should voice their suspicions, which the other players have done at least. I've only really gone off intuition for them.