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[Maxine]

I don't like how close to a hammer we are getting with Snowkiller

Come to think of it, the 2 rebels could've easily jumped on the vote and hammered Snow into the ground.  This means that either one/several of us are enemy scum, or Snow is (of course, there's always the possibility of mafia plainly missing the opportunity due to being inactive at the time).

Well I certainly don't like how quickly you both happened to simultaneously back down from your positions and jump on pressuring Snowkiller. Sure, your reasons seem sound enough at a glance, but is a bit off putting to see it happen twice in the space of 5 minutes.

I don't think a competent scum team would have actually went for the hammer. They might support the lynch, might hope someone else triggers it, but rushing a hammer looks bad. Denies us the rest of the day and Snowkiller a chance to chime in, which is what the votes on them are meant to provoke.

Ah, a fellow countryman. If you don't mind a follow up, since you've got the experience, is there anything we should know about Maximum Spin?

Where to begin? Max is a very strong player. He keeps his cards close to his chest, memes a fair bit, and plays a similar day game as town and as mafia. This makes him very hard to read even for experienced players, and when he is eliminated, it's often based on gut feelings or luck.

As town, he's good at finding scum, although makes small mechanical slip-ups very occasionally, stuff like voting too early and letting mafia hammer for the win.

As scum, he creates confusion with his night actions. He often aims to create pointless mechanical mysteriesfor town to obscure and reduce useful discussion, and will lie about his night actions to achieve this. He's comfortable bussing or killing off his partner and employing risky strategies.

To me, Max is without a doubt the most worrying player in the game, as he's a highly competent player that I can't read.

Come to think of it, the 2 rebels could've easily jumped on the vote and hammered Snow into the ground.  This means that either one/several of us are enemy scum, or Snow is (of course, there's always the possibility of mafia plainly missing the opportunity due to being inactive at the time).

Would an early quickhammer not be very incriminating for mafia?


Maxine: Why the immediate interest in third parties? Do you think there are any?


Can probably get initial reads and bit of advice for new players not sure how to start scumhunting later, posting on lunch break.

Regarding SnowKiller... if we end up eliminating someone for not really playing, I think not shooting would be a good plan, as the elimination would likely not tell us much about people's motivations. Hopefully won't come to that though, plenty of time for them to get into the action... same goes for Crystallized and CanadianKitten.

So I can't ever really be sure who they are then, but there are things to watch out for. Hopefully we got town Maximum Spin then.

I think with 9 players we could have a third party. I wouldn't call it a serious interest, more, was something to ask about at the start, see if it leads to anything, how people respond, etc. If third parties came up in earnest later on, there might have been something of value in the earlier chatter.

[Crystalizedmire]

Crystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry.

Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.

Well, I expected there to be more content for you to come to an answer with by the time you answered. However I'm wondering if you could come up with a more useful answer than "I used rng" if I asked again now? Otherwise I might think you don't actually want to engage with me. If EP does die either today or tonight, and comes up town, are you going to use this as your defence? Crystalizedmire

I honestly forgot all about that vote Unvote. Currently I think NJW is the most suspicious but it could just be their playstyle.
I don't think voting Snowkiller is an effective strategy for getting them to talk.

[Elephant Parade]

I can see town thinking this way. You had a slower style in the last game I read, although that alignment wasn't town.

Not happy about the passivity and defending another player, but at least you admitted to uncertainty on the second one. Hm... if you or CM flips mafia at any point, I think things are pretty clear. But for now,

Eh? I'd describe my style this game as slower, not faster; I've been less aggressive and I've barely interacted with any of the other players. And how would a flip make things clear? If CM and I were mafia together, why in God's name would I intercede in RVS to defend them from a forced attack?

Throughout this conversation, I've been struck by the feeling that your posts don't quite make sense. I don't know if that's because you're scum or because we're miscommunicating, and us starting off kind of aggro makes it even harder to tell. I'm going to reflect on things while I push other players a bit.

I don't think voting Snowkiller is an effective strategy for getting them to talk.

I would agree with this given their first post in the game. However:

I honestly forgot all about that vote Unvote. Currently I think NJW is the most suspicious but it could just be their playstyle.

This is vague and easy to back away from. Iffy! Between this and NJW's insistence that if one of us is scum, the other must be too, I am strongly considering a you/NJW scumteam. I still need to go over the rest of the players, but while I do that: how about explaining your reasoning, Crystallizedmire?

[Crystalizedmire]

I don't think voting Snowkiller is an effective strategy for getting them to talk.

I would agree with this given their first post in the game. However:

I honestly forgot all about that vote Unvote. Currently I think NJW is the most suspicious but it could just be their playstyle.

This is vague and easy to back away from. Iffy! Between this and NJW's insistence that if one of us is scum, the other must be too, I am strongly considering a you/NJW scumteam. I still need to go over the rest of the players, but while I do that: how about explaining your reasoning, Crystallizedmire?

I forgot that voted you and I genuinely don't think you're scum. NJW seemed most suspicious because of their rather weird rtv question but I haven't played much with them. The second most suspicious is Softhaniel because despite knowing that Snowkiller does not engage much with the game still voted against them seemingly to divert suspicion off of them.

[NJW2000]

EP: I meant slower than many other players, that wasn’t very clear.

I do think you might defend a less experienced scum partner in RVS if you thought you could get away with it, and I think CM is fairly new to this. It’s not enough to vote you on at present, but if one of you flips scum, I’ll have very strong suspicions about the other.

Pfp

[Elephant Parade]

EP: I meant slower than many other players, that wasn’t very clear.

I do think you might defend a less experienced scum partner in RVS if you thought you could get away with it, and I think CM is fairly new to this. It’s not enough to vote you on at present, but if one of you flips scum, I’ll have very strong suspicions about the other.

Pfp

I still don't really agree but OK.

I'm 50/50 on you being scum right now, which is better odds than I have on anyone else but still not great. I don't like how CM and sofanthiel jumped on your bandwagon, though they did the same thing last game as town and they've been pretty active.

I forgot that voted you and I genuinely don't think you're scum. NJW seemed most suspicious because of their rather weird rtv question but I haven't played much with them. The second most suspicious is Softhaniel because despite knowing that Snowkiller does not engage much with the game still voted against them seemingly to divert suspicion off of them.

The unvote makes sense.

Voting someone over 36 hours before the lynch without providing an original argument seems unusual on this forum, but I think you did the same thing last game as town. Looking back, you did FoS him earlier, which makes this feel less like a zero-commitment poke. Regarding sofanthiel: they were the first pressure vote on Snowkiller, and I think parking one vote on a lurker is an OK use of town's energy. I am actually a little more suspicious of Quarque, who provided the second pressure vote (though they called him out without a vote before anyone voted him). Unvote.

[Elephant Parade]

Quarque, you are one sussy baka.

Don't hide behind dice rolls or helplessness. You're going to have to play at some point, might as well start now.

*Rolls a D9*

Uh, NJW2000.

Voting Sofanthiel.
I see multiple scumtells and you aren't completely new to the game anymore.

You seem to primarily show interest in your own survival.
No effort so far to prod people or actively figure them out.
Using your vote to punish people for voting on you (ie trying to survive) - and / or a random vote.

I hope you understand why this looks suspicious?

(...)

Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.

Snowkiller, if you do not want to play then why are you here? If your only motivation is to spoil our fun, that is very sad. I don't really want to waste a vote on you, but unfortunately I feel I have to, because you might in fact be a rebel.

Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?

[Quarque]

Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?

Sure. Snowkiller is not just a lurker, he is someone who had no intention of playing and "joined" the game out of spite, with no other intention than to troll as much as possible. It pisses me off. He won't play the game now, and he won't play if we wait longer. The way I see it, we're going to have to take him out at some point anyway, and I would rather do it sooner than later. At least I hope we can ban them from any new games started here.

[Elephant Parade]

Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?

Sure. Snowkiller is not just a lurker, he is someone who had no intention of playing and "joined" the game out of spite, with no other intention than to troll as much as possible. It pisses me off. He won't play the game now, and he won't play if we wait longer. The way I see it, we're going to have to take him out at some point anyway, and I would rather do it sooner than later. At least I hope we can ban them from any new games started here.

I agree, and would not find someone voting Snowkiller at lynch suspicious, but here's the thing: we aren't at lynch yet. We have more than 24 hours to go and we can and should use that time to poke at people who are actually playing the game. You're throwing that opportunity away by parking your vote on someone you think isn't playing.

[Quarque]

Right, fair. I will go cool down and see if I can get my excuse for a brain back to work later tonight. Unvote

[Elephant Parade]

Cool. I can now see how you would've arrived in this position as town, but I'm not confident enough that that's what actually happened to unvote.

[Maximum Spin]

Where to begin? Max is a very strong player. He keeps his cards close to his chest, memes a fair bit, and plays a similar day game as town and as mafia. This makes him very hard to read even for experienced players, and when he is eliminated, it's often based on gut feelings or luck.

As town, he's good at finding scum, although makes small mechanical slip-ups very occasionally, stuff like voting too early and letting mafia hammer for the win.

As scum, he creates confusion with his night actions. He often aims to create pointless mechanical mysteriesfor town to obscure and reduce useful discussion, and will lie about his night actions to achieve this. He's comfortable bussing or killing off his partner and employing risky strategies.

To me, Max is without a doubt the most worrying player in the game, as he's a highly competent player that I can't read.

Heh.
Let's see... I don't care for Maxine here, somehow. Although I do suspect there's a third party.

Elephant: For what it's worth, I'd say that NJW is acting like his town self here.

[Elephant Parade]

Good to know, but I put a limited amount of stock in meta.

I also got vaguely bad vibes from Maxine but not to the same degree as Quarque or NJW, and it might just be because they do the quote-a-million-posts-and-reply-to-each-individually thing.

[Maximum Spin]

Good to know, but I put a limited amount of stock in meta.

I put even less stock in supposed "scumtells" that don't take meta into account, because everyone responds to situations differently.

[Elephant Parade]

Good to know, but I put a limited amount of stock in meta.

I put even less stock in supposed "scumtells" that don't take meta into account, because everyone responds to situations differently.

That's valid (and part of the reason I disliked Quarque's sofanthiel post is that it felt incredibly generic) but as a new player, my knowledge of other people's metas is limited. I could shore it up by reading even more games but ain't nobody got time for that. However, I currently read CM and sofanthiel as vaguely town-leaning solely because they played the same way as town last game, so I guess what I should say is "I put a limited amount of stock in what people say each other's metas are."