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[Quarque]

Quarque: Did you learn anything from Traitor's Dagger mini-mafia?

The main lesson was that if you run a game of mafia it is a good idea to check if all players are still on board.

Speaking about which, Snowkiller?

[Maximum Spin]

Maximum Spin: What is the status quo you're referring to? if you don't mind me asking?

It's like this, but with different people:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178351.msg8400225#msg8400225

2. (not relevant to this game) That "asshole" Web is town Web (i think).

Except when he isn't, which is always, especially when he is.

[sofanthiel]

sofanthiel: The fact that you're rolling a D9 implies that you could have self-voted. Are you willing to do so, even its harmful to your continued presence of playing this game?

If that were to happen, I'd just re-roll until I got NJW, hehehe.  And no, I can perceive no benefit to voting oneself under any circumstances, unless a jester figure is involved.

Voting Sofanthiel.
I see multiple scumtells and you aren't completely new to the game anymore.

You seem to primarily show interest in your own survival.
No effort so far to prod people or actively figure them out.
Using your vote to punish people for voting on you (ie trying to survive) - and / or a random vote.

I hope you understand why this looks suspicious?

Quarque, that's not at all what I meant by that post.  Actually, what's up with "using your vote to punish people for voting on you"??  NJW wasn't even suspecting me!  I've already provided reasoning for not wanting to die from a purely rational game-winning standpoint here.

My explanation for voting NJW was a joke, but the vote itself wasn't.  The real justification is that he accused Crystal for fooling around as a result of hesitating to make a somewhat radical decision so early into the game with no real intel (expecting a newbie to read people well with but a half-dozen random RVS comments is simply not gonna work), but I didn't state it because I also saw value in Crystal having to react to that allegation without interference, which didn't happen either way

[NJW2000]

NJW2000: Honestly don't know what to ask other than how likely is everyone just going to shoot everyone? Based on when you last played this

If we don't learn from last time I played this, 90-100% chance most players die N1.

Not necessarily a bad thing... as long as we kill mafia. Last time, nobody did. I'm hoping people will show restraint, but I'm not betting on it.



CanadianKitten: no readslist yet is ok, but it's time to start thinking about other player's motivations. At this point, which players do you think want somebody dead? Which don't?

Max: apart from Sofa, is anyone looking fun enough for you to let them live?

I am aware that people sometimes force lines of attack in RVS and that there are legitimate reasons to do so. I thought your attack was EXTREMELY forced, so much so that it stood out even in RVS. I thought that the value to town from immediately asking wtf you were smoking exceeded the value from letting CM naturally respond, as I think genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones.

I see. The RVS attack was not just forced, but unusually forced. And genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones. That would be a satisfying answer, if you'd made a real attack.

What did you hope to gain by jumping in right away and defensively?

Surely if I'd continued to push on CM in such a dubious way, I'd have incriminated myself further. Or heck, assuming they snapped under pressure, we might have gained some insight into their alignment. I might even have convinced them to actually go out on a limb and post a gut read. But instead... you answered someone else's question, and didn't even follow up your own question. You don't really seem interested in finding scum.

I'm not so sure you wanted to put pressure on me - Sofanthiel did that the right way, with a vote. I think you wanted to take pressure away from CrystalizedMire.

[Snowkiller]

Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.

[Crystalizedmire]

Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.

It started yesterday

[Elephant Parade]

I am aware that people sometimes force lines of attack in RVS and that there are legitimate reasons to do so. I thought your attack was EXTREMELY forced, so much so that it stood out even in RVS. I thought that the value to town from immediately asking wtf you were smoking exceeded the value from letting CM naturally respond, as I think genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones.

I see. The RVS attack was not just forced, but unusually forced. And genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones. That would be a satisfying answer, if you'd made a real attack.

What did you hope to gain by jumping in right away and defensively?

Surely if I'd continued to push on CM in such a dubious way, I'd have incriminated myself further. Or heck, assuming they snapped under pressure, we might have gained some insight into their alignment. I might even have convinced them to actually go out on a limb and post a gut read. But instead... you answered someone else's question, and didn't even follow up your own question. You don't really seem interested in finding scum.

I'm not so sure you wanted to put pressure on me - Sofanthiel did that the right way, with a vote. I think you wanted to take pressure away from CrystalizedMire.

I didn't reiterate my question because you had already answered it by implication. Your attack was forced; the details of it, therefore, were also forced. I guess I could've pressed you on them anyway, but I thought your attack on me was more interesting and not worth distracting from.

As for the specifics of my attack: I asked then because I wanted to know why you did it at that moment, not after CM had replied, at which point scum!you could backfill an answer based on how the conversation went. I didn't think said conversation would be very revealing—my prediction was that CM would give the obvious answer and you would drop the line of attack. I wasn't 100% sure of that and I actually waffled a bit about whether to wait for CM to reply or not, but in the end I decided to post immediately.

I didn't vote you because I don't vote in RVS. I know most people do, but I don't buy that it's effective; personally, I feel absolutely no pressure when other people do it to me. Last game, I only voted when Caz's consistent pattern of sniping set off my radar hard; nothing like that had happened at the time of my attack, only a single odd post that I wanted to poke at.

[Maximum Spin]

Max: apart from Sofa, is anyone looking fun enough for you to let them live?

Is the couch fun? I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Snowkiller might be fine too. Everyone else is ON NOTICE.

[EuchreJack]

Current Votecount:
NJW2000: Maximum Spin, sofanthiel (2)
sofanthiel: Maxine, Quarque (2)
Elephant Parade: Crystalizedmire, NJW2000 (2)
Quarque: (0)
Maxine: (0)
Snowkiller: (0)
The Canadian kitten: (0)
Crystalizedmire: (0)
Maximum Spin: (0)

Not voting: Snowkiller, Elephant Parade, The Canadian kitten (3)

Day ends on Friday, September 1st at 10pm EST, approximately 44 hours 4 minutes from now, or a HAMMER by total of FIVE (5) votes on one player.

[Maxine]

sofanthiel: What did you do wrong last game? How is it going to affect your play this game?

I maintained neutrality under the guise of informed indecisiveness for the majority of day 1.  The effect of this mistake on my play was already pretty apparent on the second day of that same game; I don't want to be lynched, so I'm going to more freely take sides and accuse others.

Not entirely sure about what you've said or done since but I liked how timely and genuine this answer felt when I read it. Though such reflection would have happened prior to this game, so the answer itself doesn't really indicate either way. Possibly a poor question. I think you've stayed true to those words thus far for what little it is worth to me.

Crystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry.

Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.

Well, I expected there to be more content for you to come to an answer with by the time you answered. However I'm wondering if you could come up with a more useful answer than "I used rng" if I asked again now? Otherwise I might think you don't actually want to engage with me. If EP does die either today or tonight, and comes up town, are you going to use this as your defence? Crystalizedmire

NJW2000: I know nothing about you as a mafia player, what should I know about you?

Quarque: As above.

Well I only played one game of mafia before and in that one I did terrible. If you're curious, it was called "Traitor's Dagger Mini-Mafia" and I won as scum because other players failed to post at all. Undeserved, people saw through me from a mile away.

Why did you mention your role this early, by the way?

Noted, assuming it is as long as the name suggests, I'll give it a read over. Hopefully this game goes better and whoever wins can say they deserved it.

And, well, I didn't really think about it. I figure it doesn't make a huge difference if I do or don't, is the basic role, is the same as someone saying "Hey, I'm town" at the start of the game. Holds no weight on its own. If I was something else, I'd probably say the same thing until it comes time to reveal otherwise.

Elephant Parade: Do you perceive any unique challenges or issues from this set up compared to a regular game?

In a normal game, most or all of the town's killing power comes from day eliminations, which are determined by consensus. In this game, much of the town's killing power comes from nightkills, which are determined by the individual. Using our kills judiciously will be a challenge for all of us.

I see, I was going to ask if we all should agree on who to shoot before day end, but you already stated your opinion on that further in. I suppose it will probably be easy enough to figure out for some people anyway.

NJW2000: I know nothing about you as a mafia player, what should I know about you?

I'm reasonably experienced, have a strong daygame focus, am known to make mistakes when I get overinvolved or tired with the game. I'm pretty good at reading some of the frequent bay12 mafia players, but a lot of people here are new to me.

I'm UK based and have a job, so will be mostly around from 18:00-24:00 GMT, and a bit more throughout the day

Ah, a fellow countryman. If you don't mind a follow up, since you've got the experience, is there anything we should know about Maximum Spin?

Maximum Spin: Of the people here, who would you want for a scum partner?

Known fun-hater NJW2000.

I can't help but notice you cut off the second question. Why would you want NJW2000 to be your scum partner? I mean, I can kinda see why, but I want to hear your answer if possible.

Finally able to do this stuff now

The Canadian kitten: What is your favourite Star Wars movie? And what sort of third party do you think we'll see, if any?

Revenge of the Sith is my favourite, and if we have a third party I think it might be something from the Zann Consortium due to it being one of the factions in Empire of war I think, and according to Wookiepedia, they were attacking both Empire and rebels and corrupting systems for piracy.
Other than that, no other clues about which star wars faction would be powerful enough to want to sabotage the Empire
Who knows, maybe the Ewoks?
Give me some time to come up with questions to ask.
Should I be posting scumreads even if I largely lack the meta knowledge to properly read some people?

Good choice. I was asking less about flavour/lore and more about the roles but that is on me for asking a non-game question and a game question.

I recall reading it is more important to play and mess up than otherwise.

Maxine: What makes you think that you will play poorly/stupidly?

Ah, what I said to Crystal. It was mostly an extra attempt to interact, get things moving, that they chose to ignore. But I suppose, I haven't played forum mafia before, knowing myself, and having seen more experienced players screw up, I figure I'm not going to do better on the first go.

Also tends to be like a lot of noise to sift through, not sure I'll stay motivated to do so until the end.

Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.

I could understand not wanting to talk about your last game, but ignoring the questions entirety and doing nothing isn't going to do you any favours. Snowkiller do you not have anything you want to do or say today?

[sofanthiel]

you answered someone else's question, and didn't even follow up your own question. You don't really seem interested in finding scum.

This has already been answered, so I thought I'd weigh in: EP having an instinctive desire to defend Crystal from a perceived unfair push that he believes Crystal wouldn't have the ability to deal with on their own due to being new is not an unreasonable idea.  In any case, I think you sound pretty genuine, and I see now that your accusation was purely RVS.

Now, Snowkiller, what's up with that complete lack of engagement?  We're close to end of day 1, and you've basically not said anything.  If nothing else, at least respond to the multiple RVS questions directed at you!  Putting some much-needed pressure on ya with those crimson red letters.

[Quarque]

sofanthiel: The fact that you're rolling a D9 implies that you could have self-voted. Are you willing to do so, even its harmful to your continued presence of playing this game?

If that were to happen, I'd just re-roll until I got NJW, hehehe.  And no, I can perceive no benefit to voting oneself under any circumstances, unless a jester figure is involved.

Voting Sofanthiel.
I see multiple scumtells and you aren't completely new to the game anymore.

You seem to primarily show interest in your own survival.
No effort so far to prod people or actively figure them out.
Using your vote to punish people for voting on you (ie trying to survive) - and / or a random vote.

I hope you understand why this looks suspicious?

Quarque, that's not at all what I meant by that post.  Actually, what's up with "using your vote to punish people for voting on you"??  NJW wasn't even suspecting me!  I've already provided reasoning for not wanting to die from a purely rational game-winning standpoint here.

My explanation for voting NJW was a joke, but the vote itself wasn't.  The real justification is that he accused Crystal for fooling around as a result of hesitating to make a somewhat radical decision so early into the game with no real intel (expecting a newbie to read people well with but a half-dozen random RVS comments is simply not gonna work), but I didn't state it because I also saw value in Crystal having to react to that allegation without interference, which didn't happen either way

ok, NJW didn't vote for you, he just pressured. In any case, yes I saw your earlier argument but I think it's unconvincing - prioritizing survival is still a typical scum tell, especially when someone seems to put little effort into figuring people out. Anyway, your explanation shows that you actually did put some thought into figuring people out and is enough to make me revote.

Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.

Snowkiller, if you do not want to play then why are you here? If your only motivation is to spoil our fun, that is very sad. I don't really want to waste a vote on you, but unfortunately I feel I have to, because you might in fact be a rebel.

[Maxine]

I'll be moving my vote to Crystalizedmire for a bit, since I don't like how close to a hammer we are getting with Snowkiller, and they've self-voted as town before.

[sofanthiel]

I don't like how close to a hammer we are getting with Snowkiller

Come to think of it, the 2 rebels could've easily jumped on the vote and hammered Snow into the ground.  This means that either one/several of us are enemy scum, or Snow is (of course, there's always the possibility of mafia plainly missing the opportunity due to being inactive at the time).

[NJW2000]

-

I can see town thinking this way. You had a slower style in the last game I read, although that alignment wasn't town.

Not happy about the passivity and defending another player, but at least you admitted to uncertainty on the second one. Hm... if you or CM flips mafia at any point, I think things are pretty clear. But for now,

Unvote

Ah, a fellow countryman. If you don't mind a follow up, since you've got the experience, is there anything we should know about Maximum Spin?

Where to begin? Max is a very strong player. He keeps his cards close to his chest, memes a fair bit, and plays a similar day game as town and as mafia. This makes him very hard to read even for experienced players, and when he is eliminated, it's often based on gut feelings or luck.

As town, he's good at finding scum, although makes small mechanical slip-ups very occasionally, stuff like voting too early and letting mafia hammer for the win.

As scum, he creates confusion with his night actions. He often aims to create pointless mechanical mysteriesfor town to obscure and reduce useful discussion, and will lie about his night actions to achieve this. He's comfortable bussing or killing off his partner and employing risky strategies.

To me, Max is without a doubt the most worrying player in the game, as he's a highly competent player that I can't read.

Come to think of it, the 2 rebels could've easily jumped on the vote and hammered Snow into the ground.  This means that either one/several of us are enemy scum, or Snow is (of course, there's always the possibility of mafia plainly missing the opportunity due to being inactive at the time).

Would an early quickhammer not be very incriminating for mafia?


Maxine: Why the immediate interest in third parties? Do you think there are any?


Can probably get initial reads and bit of advice for new players not sure how to start scumhunting later, posting on lunch break.

Regarding SnowKiller... if we end up eliminating someone for not really playing, I think not shooting would be a good plan, as the elimination would likely not tell us much about people's motivations. Hopefully won't come to that though, plenty of time for them to get into the action... same goes for Crystallized and CanadianKitten.