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[ToonyMan]

Hold up, I might have posted this morning with a fuzzy recollection. OK unvote, it looks like I totally misread Tric's reply in our co-worker chat (sent late night NQT-time) and that is confirmed to be how it works.

I should always re-read things in the morning... this is like a lesser version of that robot pirate catgirl misreading incident all over again. I just get into a manic posting frenzy sometimes and need to slow my roll.

Web's right, we're co-workers. That comes from my role. I'm also the poisoner and the governor, so I can't be the jester or King. Your move Fluffe.

When you get up in morning sometimes you don't get much sleep. You go to take a shower and you're still wearing underwear, then when you finish you forgot to get a towel and have to go outside of the bathroom wet and naked only for your cat to try to murder you by walking between your legs.

After drying off, you put on your clothes. You want to put your pants on while standing, but you can't balance on one leg so you end hopping like a pogo stick until you land on your bed. You put your shirt on backwards and don't notice.

You spend 20 minutes looking for your Car Keys because you don't put them in the same place when you get home. After leaving you remember about halfway to work that you forgot your company badge, but decide you'll handle the embarrassment by having your coworkers let you inside the building. You also remember you didn't brush your teeth. You breathe out inside your shirt and it smells like you're The Grinch. Oh well.

When you arrive at work you are late, misdressed, unprepared, stressed, and smelly. You are also forgetful and don't think things through before taking action because the parking lot is empty and it is the weekend.

[ToonyMan]

Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours

I believe the pious doge.

[Maximum Spin]

Janitor is acting more of a modifier than a proper role if that helps your confusion any.

That doesn't help, no.
Unless I'm misunderstanding how roles are apportioned, in which case I invite TricMagic to correct me, you'd have needed to counterclaim at least one claim in play in order to open a role slot on some player.

I do see one possible exception, though - if False falsifies the player's entire role, either zemaj or webadict is a False Antisocial Unjester, the other one is the real Fruitfucker, and Fallacy is a Hidden Arsonist or Hidden Dork. Is that possible, Tric?

[Maximum Spin]

Janitor is acting more of a modifier than a proper role if that helps your confusion any.

That doesn't help, no.
Unless I'm misunderstanding how roles are apportioned, in which case I invite TricMagic to correct me, you'd have needed to counterclaim at least one claim in play in order to open a role slot on some player.

I do see one possible exception, though - if False falsifies the player's entire role, either zemaj or webadict is a False Antisocial Unjester, the other one is the real Fruitfucker, and Fallacy is a Hidden Arsonist or Hidden Dork. Is that possible, Tric?

BTW: That would make the other of webadict or zemaj the King. In that case, we need to know whether lynching a Hidden player reveals the full role; if so, we should lynch Fallacy to reveal his role, telling us which of the two has the False role. Then we know to lynch the other one.

[Maximum Spin]

I hate triple-posting, but I forgot to mention:
Mafia should be concealing the identity of the King by having the King claim an element from a teammate's role instead, so it's not actually certain that it's [zemaj|webadict], just that whichever of them ends up being the one I'm talking about would be ON the scumteam. There are a few other small wrinkles I'm ignoring but you can probably work them out.

[TricMagic]

Janitor is acting more of a modifier than a proper role if that helps your confusion any.

That doesn't help, no.
Unless I'm misunderstanding how roles are apportioned, in which case I invite TricMagic to correct me, you'd have needed to counterclaim at least one claim in play in order to open a role slot on some player.

I do see one possible exception, though - if False falsifies the player's entire role, either zemaj or webadict is a False Antisocial Unjester, the other one is the real Fruitfucker, and Fallacy is a Hidden Arsonist or Hidden Dork. Is that possible, Tric?

False wouldn't modify the entire role in that case, just one aspect of it.

[notquitethere]

Tric has essentially confirmed that Web is fake-fruit, real dark creature.

Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours

I don't think you can be.

No one has counterclaimed these and I guessed this combo earlier:

(my bet is the flavour is a weird vulture)

(Vulture = Janitor: destroy bodies + parrot, weird = mysterious conduit)

So either:

2. Fluffe is lying: one of his claimed roles is Fallacy's hidden role, and one of his claimed roles is Web's faked role, and he is the unjester
3. Hidden works differently to how we assume and Fallacy is somehow the unjester

BTW: That would make the other of webadict or zemaj the King. In that case, we need to know whether lynching a Hidden player reveals the full role; if so, we should lynch Fallacy to reveal his role, telling us which of the two has the False role. Then we know to lynch the other one.

Yes Zemaj in particular has a unclaimed role element which he is being obscure about, and so might be King (or scum, loaning a safe claim to a King partner, as Max has suggested).

Zemaj, would you be able to paraphrase your flavour text?

[Maximum Spin]

False wouldn't modify the entire role in that case, just one aspect of it.

All right.

Another possibility I just thought of: If Fallacy is a Hidden Fruit Festival, and one of Zemaj or webadict is a False King appearing to be a Fruit Festival, while the other is the Antisocial Unjester fakeclaiming Fruit Festival, then Fluffe could be telling the truth. Presumably NQT would be able to tell if webadict were the AU fakeclaiming Fruit Festival, but if the AU and NQT share a win condition (whatever it is) then NQT might withhold that information. If that's the case, it's best to admit it - town has nightkills so a town AU would be just fine.

[Maximum Spin]

Another possibility I just thought of: If Fallacy is a Hidden Fruit Festival, and one of Zemaj or webadict is a False King appearing to be a Fruit Festival,

It should also work if the non-fruit element is the false one that Fallacy has as Hidden, but that contradicts what notquitethere claimed.

[notquitethere]

To be clear, all I know for certain about Web is that he is my co-worker but isn't the owner of the co-worker role. From private discussion, he appeared to have only two known roles. He could have faked that, but if so he did so quite convincingly. I think it most likely he has the false role. He could have been workshopping a claim to sell to me with his scum buddy, of course.

[Maximum Spin]

To be clear, all I know for certain about Web is that he is my co-worker but isn't the owner of the co-worker role. From private discussion, he appeared to have only two known roles. He could have faked that, but if so he did so quite convincingly. I think it most likely he has the false role. He could have been workshopping a claim to sell to me with his scum buddy, of course.

Co-workers usually know each other's roles, so you're confirming this is not the case here?

[notquitethere]

Co-workers usually know each other's roles, so you're confirming this is not the case here?

Correct, we just share a chat. I don't know his role or alignment. He claimed his role to me way before he claimed in the thread, so I'm a bit more inclined to believe it.


From what Tric has hinted, I think the antisocial unjester must be an additional wincon for one town player. If they weren't antisocial this wouldn't be an issue, but as it stands, we need to find them and make sure they're not accidentally killed. If the fruit festival survives into N1, this could buy us a bit more time.

I think Max's idea of flipping Fallacy first to find out the hidden roles makes a lot of sense... if we get told the roles on flip.

[zemaj]

How fucking bizarre that I know that NQT is lying with information that I know he has because we're Coworkers.

NQT, you literally know that's how False works because that's exactly how False was explained IN OUR COWORKER CHAT.

@TricMagic, would False show up as a duplicate of another role?

Hold up, I might have posted this morning with a fuzzy recollection. OK unvote, it looks like I totally misread Tric's reply in our co-worker chat (sent late night NQT-time) and that is confirmed to be how it works.

I should always re-read things in the morning... this is like a lesser version of that robot pirate catgirl misreading incident all over again. I just get into a manic posting frenzy sometimes and need to slow my roll.

Web's right, we're co-workers. That comes from my role. I'm also the poisoner and the governor, so I can't be the jester or King. Your move Fluffe.

This interaction seems odd to me... On top of the sudden 'this is the rest of our claim', it just tickles at something in my head...

Max on Zemaj, getting rid of fruit festival (why? because it's annoying? But it'll stop the N1 kill, so why does Max want to get rid?)

Wait, it works on kills?

I assume so! Here's what mafia wiki says:

Fruit Festival is a role that allows you to replace all actions that night with a Fruit Vendor action. An action with multiple targets will each turn into their own Fruit Vendor action.

I'm guessing it's one-shot.If someone has the Strong role due to Jim strengthening them, they would still act, but it probably wouldn't line up to make anyone strong before N1, unless Jim's action is a day power.

Also, NQT, web: At the very least, that's not how False normally works. A False role according to the wiki Tric's using just doesn't do anything, it doesn't pretend to be a different role.
never mind, I guess? posting anyway.

Yeah that's why I confused myself. But Web's right, Tric does appear to say otherwise in our chat.

Hmmm... so if me or webadict fired off Fruit Festival on subsequent nights, wouldn't that tell us which is false?  If we are primarily worried about the Anti-Social Unjester, then that should elucidate AND/OR halt all night-actions, preventing ASUnJester from getting killed.

Max, I should note it seems from our flavour that the co-worker is coming from my role. Web is most likely False + Something masquerading as Fruit + Dark Creature or something masquerading as dark creature.

Spoiler: For completeness, this was the crumb (click to show/hide)

Zemak

I just read an interesting article about the stabilization in rates of food-allergy occurence, if that helps any.

Great stuff! That is interesting, unvote. Especially the data about allergy reactions being higher among higher educated parents. I remember reading that peanut allergies are way less common in Israel where children are much more likely to be exposed to them at a young age.

I oppose a mass-claim on D1... if I wanted to break a game, I'd play more DF, not mafia on the B12 forums.

Pretty sure any setup should be balanced around not being broken by a mass claim; ultimately the main guard against the game becoming boring is for players to not make it boring. I think collectively solving the power interactions helps turn it from a random stuff-happens, to a big puzzle. It doesn't make it unfair for scum, who still have some wiggle room, as only King for definite (and maybe Dark Creature) are confirmed scum. The main argument against not mass claiming is for punchy town roles who have some secret weapon that they want to hold back on using.

@notquiethere claim and ill claim as well.

Can't say fairer than that. I'll see what a few more players do. But to make it fair, I've breadcrumbed my role somewhere.

Starting each paragraph with G, then P then C, to indicate the three roles Governor, Poisoner, Co-Worker

Spoiler: For completeness, this was the crumb (click to show/hide)

Zemak

I just read an interesting article about the stabilization in rates of food-allergy occurence, if that helps any.

Great stuff! That is interesting, unvote. Especially the data about allergy reactions being higher among higher educated parents. I remember reading that peanut allergies are way less common in Israel where children are much more likely to be exposed to them at a young age.

I oppose a mass-claim on D1... if I wanted to break a game, I'd play more DF, not mafia on the B12 forums.

Pretty sure any setup should be balanced around not being broken by a mass claim; ultimately the main guard against the game becoming boring is for players to not make it boring. I think collectively solving the power interactions helps turn it from a random stuff-happens, to a big puzzle. It doesn't make it unfair for scum, who still have some wiggle room, as only King for definite (and maybe Dark Creature) are confirmed scum. The main argument against not mass claiming is for punchy town roles who have some secret weapon that they want to hold back on using.

@notquiethere claim and ill claim as well.

Can't say fairer than that. I'll see what a few more players do. But to make it fair, I've breadcrumbed my role somewhere.

Starting each paragraph with G, then P then C, to indicate the three roles Governor, Poisoner, Co-Worker

I don't really get the purpose of this action. It only very tenuously precommits you to the claim. You could easily have prepared lots of fakeclaims and hidden them in different ways — this one would even have worked equally well for Parrot, Post Restriction, Creature, and Conduit if you wanted to be one of them.
You could equally have used the first paragraph's T and E, or the last paragraph's B, or...

Have to agree with Max on this... that seems just a little overly non-committal.  Granted, soft-claim, but usually there are only one or two ways to interpret that, not so much mix-and-match possible.

Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours

I don't think you can be.
Nobody has two role slots outstanding. If Fallacy is the Antisocial Unjester, who's Hidden? If Zemaj is and lying about being fruity, who's False? Presumably notquitethere knows webadict isn't lying about his role, and presumably webadict knows notquitethere isn't lying about his.

I'm fairly positive Coworkers are typically not given each others roles or alignment, they just share a chat. (Yep, NQT confirmed here)

Tric has essentially confirmed that Web is fake-fruit, real dark creature.

Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours

I don't think you can be.

No one has counterclaimed these and I guessed this combo earlier:

(my bet is the flavour is a weird vulture)

(Vulture = Janitor: destroy bodies + parrot, weird = mysterious conduit)

So either:

2. Fluffe is lying: one of his claimed roles is Fallacy's hidden role, and one of his claimed roles is Web's faked role, and he is the unjester
3. Hidden works differently to how we assume and Fallacy is somehow the unjester

BTW: That would make the other of webadict or zemaj the King. In that case, we need to know whether lynching a Hidden player reveals the full role; if so, we should lynch Fallacy to reveal his role, telling us which of the two has the False role. Then we know to lynch the other one.

Yes Zemaj in particular has a unclaimed role element which he is being obscure about, and so might be King (or scum, loaning a safe claim to a King partner, as Max has suggested).

Zemaj, would you be able to paraphrase your flavour text?

I've been trying, but I really am at a loss for what Tric is getting at with it... I am waiting to post it at endgame, and get some fucking clarification on what the hell this is... mostly reads like RP about it being dark and confusing in the location I am in, but there are other bits that just seem to contradict, so I really am at a loss.  I SUPPOSE that might be False, but I would have said Hidden more likely, but I have two other roles, so its definitely not Hidden.

[FallacyofUrist]

I have a spiteful confession to make.

As there is zero free claim space in this setup, I would like to note that actually, I am the real King. webadict is the actual Enchantress.

We will be shooting the Antijester tonight. Trust me, it’s better for everyone this way.

[webadict]

...No.  I'm the King, and I want the Anti-Jester to win, so we should just vote out NQT and do that.

Everyone wants the Anti Jester to win.

#fuckthisgame
#braindead
#antijester4lyfe