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[Strongpoint]

Iran do what America don't. Fuck Trump's republicans.

American politics are slightly more complex than that.

And Iran is not an ally of Russia, it merely profits from selling weapons. Sadly Russia has money and tech to offer.

[Maximum Spin]

Iran do what America don't. Fuck Trump's republicans.

I'm not sure what you want Congress to do here. According to polls, the majority of American citizens are against sending more aid to Ukraine and have been for months. Those who still support it can and should donate personally, but it wouldn't be right for Congress to make that decision as it stands.

[ChairmanPoo]

Iran do what America don't. Fuck Trump's republicans.

... wait you want the US to provide Russia with surface to surface ballistic missiles?

[McTraveller]

I'm not sure what you want Congress to do here. According to polls, the majority of American citizens are against sending more aid to Ukraine and have been for months. Those who still support it can and should donate personally, but it wouldn't be right for Congress to make that decision as it stands.

True, but the majority of American citizens are more than happy to save a one-time $100 payment today but have to spend $1000 in 10 years.  Because apparently they can't see the long term cost of not preventing aggressive international behavior as being more than the short-term cost.  Congress should say: look US population, it's in your best interest to stop this nonsense, because it really is going to cost us more in the future*.

The current US culture just isn't interested in stamping out injustice - or I should say, they only care about what they perceive as injustices to themselves, not to other people.

It's all very disappointing.

*The cynic in me, though, is that Congress itself just doesn't care - they don't care about long-term success and stability, just short-term profit.

That said - what's the rest of Europe doing? I don't get the impression (which could be wrong, of course) that the EU is actually trying to stop Russia either, or give Ukraine what it needs to actually stop Russia.

It's all very disappointing (repeated for emphasis).

[Maximum Spin]

True, but the majority of American citizens are more than happy to save a one-time $100 payment today but have to spend $1000 in 10 years.  Because apparently they can't see the long term cost of not preventing aggressive international behavior as being more than the short-term cost.  Congress should say: look US population, it's in your best interest to stop this nonsense, because it really is going to cost us more in the future*.

The current US culture just isn't interested in stamping out injustice - or I should say, they only care about what they perceive as injustices to themselves, not to other people.

It's all very disappointing.

*The cynic in me, though, is that Congress itself just doesn't care - they don't care about long-term success and stability, just short-term profit.

That said - what's the rest of Europe doing? I don't get the impression (which could be wrong, of course) that the EU is actually trying to stop Russia either, or give Ukraine what it needs to actually stop Russia.

It's all very disappointing (repeated for emphasis).

This is literally the opposite of how a democracy is supposed to work. You are describing an aristocracy, where the people in charge pursue their own interests because they think they know better. In a democracy, officials must answer to their constituents. Constituents are often short-sighted or easily swayed, a flaw of democracy that has been commented on since ancient Athens; nevertheless.

[heydude6]

I did not know about changing American public opinion. Wow, that’s really disappointing. People were so motivated before, but now they’re willing  to let Russia get away with this act of aggression. Their grandparents who fought in Korea would be so disappointed.

*snip*

That may be true of direct democracy, but one of the alleged upsides of representative democracy is that the officials you elect may presumably know more about an issue than the public and thus have the desire to make better decisions. Even if the public is against them in the short-term, they’re supposed to begrudgingly accept that their guy knows what he’s doing.

You may have found this idea hopelessly naive, but that is how the system is “supposed” to work. The problem though is that it relies on the public trusting that their officials really do know best, but with political polarization and a 2-party system that removes choices, the only politicians we get are corporate sponsored crooks who can be trusted as far as their brittle bones can carry them. Democratic leaders need to be viewed as legitimate in order to function, and the fact that we don’t have that is a serious concern.

[Il Palazzo]

This is literally the opposite of how a democracy is supposed to work. You are describing an aristocracy, where the people in charge pursue their own interests because they think they know better. In a democracy, officials must answer to their constituents. Constituents are often short-sighted or easily swayed, a flaw of democracy that has been commented on since ancient Athens; nevertheless.

The representatives answer to their constituents come next election. During the term they're expected to make decisions on their own, to the best of their ability and understanding of how to further the interests of the people they represent. They can explain their choices later, as they campaign for reelection.
You can't govern a modern country with direct democracy.

That said - what's the rest of Europe doing? I don't get the impression (which could be wrong, of course) that the EU is actually trying to stop Russia either, or give Ukraine what it needs to actually stop Russia.

At the beginning of this month the financial aid for the next four years was approved by the EU. So at least in this respect we're ahead.
On the other hand, the 50 billion euro of aid barely covers 1.5 years of what Ukraine needs to stay afloat. With US stalling and possibly withdrawing, it won't be nearly enough. And the military aid is still being negotiated, where I can't imagine it ending up anything close to what's needed. Likely more contracts for deliveries in 2027+ and such, while there's no ammo on the front right now.

[Strongpoint]

UK sanctioned... the staff of the prison in which Navalny was murdered. *hysterical laughter*.

This is the problem, IMO. Unwillingness or inability to hit Russia with harmful hostile actions. Throwing money and military hardware at Ukraine won't be sufficient. Even with massive Western help, we will run out of manpower and\or political stability long before Russia will.

[Devastator]

Iran do what America don't. Fuck Trump's republicans.

American politics are slightly more complex than that.

And Iran is not an ally of Russia, it merely profits from selling weapons. Sadly Russia has money and tech to offer.

Yes they are.  Iran is absolutely, one hundred percent, an ally of Russia.  They're aligned politically, economically, and they exchange defensive goods.

[Devastator]

No, Russia doesn't have money or tech to offer.  They have a supply of relatively old aircraft.  They also have shit-for-money.  The recent 'voluntary reductions' in exports were in no way voluntary.

I'm also noting that you didn't chime in with opposing Trumplicans, who are super-allied with Russia.

[Devastator]

True, but the majority of American citizens are more than happy to save a one-time $100 payment today but have to spend $1000 in 10 years.  Because apparently they can't see the long term cost of not preventing aggressive international behavior as being more than the short-term cost.  Congress should say: look US population, it's in your best interest to stop this nonsense, because it really is going to cost us more in the future*.

The current US culture just isn't interested in stamping out injustice - or I should say, they only care about what they perceive as injustices to themselves, not to other people.

It's all very disappointing.

*The cynic in me, though, is that Congress itself just doesn't care - they don't care about long-term success and stability, just short-term profit.

That said - what's the rest of Europe doing? I don't get the impression (which could be wrong, of course) that the EU is actually trying to stop Russia either, or give Ukraine what it needs to actually stop Russia.

It's all very disappointing (repeated for emphasis).

This is literally the opposite of how a democracy is supposed to work. You are describing an aristocracy, where the people in charge pursue their own interests because they think they know better. In a democracy, officials must answer to their constituents. Constituents are often short-sighted or easily swayed, a flaw of democracy that has been commented on since ancient Athens; nevertheless.

"Look, we need to support the murderous autocracy that is attempting to lie and murder their way to victory."

"Why?"

"Well, because the local aristocracy (wealthy republicans) says we're supposed to support them!"

[Devastator]

Also, Europe isn't doing anything?  I mean.. there's the tank factory deal.  And they've provided more military aid than the United States, however much pro-Russian Americans want to lie about how Europe is doing nothing.

[Devastator]

Currently, as I see it, Biden is For Ukraine, and Trump is Against Ukraine.

Biden is pro-war and Trump is anti-war.

Trump has said he'd end the war in a day (doubtful.) He hasn't stated what the terms for peace would be, but there's no way Ukraine would accept Russia gaining territory. It's possible Russia wouldn't end up paying war damages or facing justice, but there's still a deterrent if they lost so much for nothing.

Letting Ukraine bleed so that Russia can bleed isn't entirely pro-Ukraine.

Mmm hmm.

That's a lot of words to avoid saying "Look, Trump supports stealing hundreds of thousands of children.  Why do you oppose that?"

[Lord Shonus]

Iran do what America don't. Fuck Trump's republicans.

I'm not sure what you want Congress to do here. According to polls, the majority of American citizens are against sending more aid to Ukraine and have been for months. Those who still support it can and should donate personally, but it wouldn't be right for Congress to make that decision as it stands.

[citation needed]

Every reputable poll I can find has "US aid (before the gridlock) is where it should be" and "the US should be sending more aid" outperform "the US is doing too much" be a supermajority. The "most Americans want to cut aid" narrative is being spread by eliminating one of the first two options (each about 30%), then declaring that the last one (about 40%) is the clear winner.

[Devastator]

Shonus, the fun part about that the "Biden isn't sending enough support" and "Biden is sending too much support" are being said by the same people.  It's like how everyone is desperately afraid of saying things like "Biden is an excellent president."

Goal is, as always, to support autocrats.  If you can drain support by telling both lies to different people, you 'win'.