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Author Topic: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on  (Read 33329 times)

Il Palazzo

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #465 on: January 11, 2023, 10:09:51 am »

What an undesirable situation you're in. To be continuously expanding, capturing new population centres and discovering new resource nodes. The endless stream of fate points that end up as spotter drones on your atomics are just a cherry on the turd cake, I'm sure. I can't imagine how terrible it is to be in your shoes.
But, oh no! You might lose some backwater border town that would not change anything in the broader scope. Where your actually losing it is contingent on you not dropping a couple nukes on this part of the front instead of elsewhere.
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E. Albright

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #466 on: January 11, 2023, 02:14:42 pm »

Ah, yes. Those endless beautiful water and oil nodes I'll find shall surely turn the tide of the war! These last 20-ish turns have been the only ones where my expansion has translated into useful resources - and those turns appear to have given you as many resources despite your "limited" expansion. You've been capturing mineral-rich mountainous terrain while I've been capturing vast empty plains that drain logistics and are hard to defend. Meanwhile, your tiny, useless, bottled-up, resource-free land can afford to build advanced Demetalization & Industries in every city as your hapless, overwhelmed armies somehow find the time and manpower to continuously expand to the southwest. Wernerstein and Panzerstein are on the menu by all appearances, you just haven't got there quite yet. Not to mention how you're keeping Mabarion in your back pocket for later if you want to send 2-3 BDEs to fetch you a snack, but for now they provide you a nice safe wall to your west. Those overwhelmed armies with no resources somehow manage to field multiple armored OHQs, mechanized infantry OHQs, mech-reinforced infantry OHQs, and bomber wings/artillery regiments that burn I-don't-want-to-contemplate how much IP and metal every turn in ammo. I'm quite pleased I finally managed to deploy a single double-sized light armored infantry brigade a few turns back so I'm no longer all infantry formations...

And that "backwater border town" was my third biggest city before the war started and 1) you started shelling it into a rubble heap, 2) I started strip-mining its population for defenders (ya know why you've not broken my line despite continuously smashing my troops to a bloodly pulp? B/c I've been playing recruitment stratagems on my cities so I can replace 7-10k dead from conventional attacks most every turn while trying to back-fill my lines before you push me back into missile range of my capital), and 3) I started closing down infrastructure that was too damaged to keep fighting, was too pop-intensive for what it was giving me, or was too risky to let fall into your hands when you inevitably captured it.

Again, the only way I've moved the line at all is by nuking your OHQs. You OTOH have inflicted the same proportion of casualties (at which you expressed incredulity at despite inflicting them and continuously pushing your front line forwards) on me just by carefully picking a target and attacking it. A key point that your analysis omits is the proportion of your troops sitting comfortably in Fluid Defense that can successfully eat my troops' faces unless I bolster my own lines with units in dedicated defensive postures, which give me punishing casualties in exchange for not losing ground every turn... but I can't turn on my heel and push into your Fluid Defense lines unless I kill your commanders first.

Finally: Fate Points aren't useful unless you have something to spend them on. You don't get new cards by capturing cities. OTOH, you do get new cards - free ones at that! - by capturing artifacts. Funny how your narrative omits entirely the portion of the front south of the lake where you've been capturing land, assets, minerals, and artifacts quite freely. Mind you, I've gotten exactly 2 FP from Hornstein, and I'm pretty sure I've spent 4 or so on 50 PP cards during this war b/c those have been so scarce. If you want Fate Points, use all the PP you're not spending to replenish thousands of casualties every turn to play Mission Impossible like everyone else.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #467 on: January 11, 2023, 04:35:22 pm »

A most excellent grumbling performance. I did miss that most of all. I may re-grumble at you later (what, what! how many armoured OHQs do I have now?!).
I just hope Karlito's not blushing too much, seeing how it's all for his benefit.
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E. Albright

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #468 on: January 11, 2023, 10:44:54 pm »

Hmph, if it was all for Karlito's benefit I could use PMs. The peanut gallery needs entertained, too.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #469 on: January 12, 2023, 01:38:48 pm »

Those overwhelmed armies with no resources somehow manage to field multiple armored OHQs, mechanized infantry OHQs, mech-reinforced infantry OHQs, and bomber wings/artillery regiments
I want to have this army! Here, let me provide you with some free intel.
I have zero (0, null, nada) armoured OHQs. The few independent detachments rolling about by and large remember the days of the Great Troglodyte Invasion and would not be sent to the front if I could help it.
On paper, I have two mechanized OHQs. One, until recently a corps - once my pride and joy, now half-bombed to kingdom come and downgraded - I've ever only managed to reinforce to maybe 1/3rd of the intended strength in non-infantry materiel. It never even had enough apcs in any battalion to not be treated as foot. The other was designated mechanized pretty much purely aspirationally, as I haven't had the resources to put almost anything in there. There's maybe 10 mechanized units to go around. Hell, it was even once a corps! Mechanized only in name. 
Similarly, the two brigades with mechs have in one case 3-4 machines per battalion, in the other 1 per. They're just glorified apcs anyway.
My only bomber wing was destroyed by your airborne militia. If there's anything bombing you still, it's old, light, turboprop fighters with rockets and machineguns braving the sam-infested skies.
I have one artillery regiment. The rest is battalions. Each less effective than even the 1 Mt nukes.
My frontline infantry is still partially in outdated heavy armour. Not that the battledress is of much help when nukes start falling.
I'm rarely able to reinforce any of the understrength units at all, as - as was rightly observed - the one solution I've found is to drop as much ordnance I can on your lines (not that it's super effective or anything), which - together with replacing thousands of infantry losses and covering the deep rear against the threat of airborne attacks - drains the majority of my industrial capacity.
Of which I don't know how much do you think I have. You might be judging it from your perspective of having the government profile's 40% bonus.

Speaking of losses, with only a few cities to go around and no fist profile bonuses, my losses are dangerously close to causing widespread unrest. Yours - supposedly so high - not even close.

At the same time, new heavy thopters, new transport planes, new sams, new 50 Mt nukes, new quality tanks, micro-nuke rpgs, and now a nice full-strength mechanized corps reinforced with laser tanks and tracked quads keep popping up. (wait, is that a corps? Or did you just customize it like mad? It's hard to tell with your naming scheme)

As for the tasty snack of the major to my west - since they turned belligerent, they've camped some 150 thousand troops next to my border, and my six outdated brigades have to sit there in the hopes that they'll somehow hold the line in case my continued bribery efforts fail to placate them.
I have nothing to put on the border with my newly acquired blackmail-happy neighbour to the S-W. But at least there's nothing but barren mountains to lose there for a while, should/when they invade.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 01:42:26 pm by Il Palazzo »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #470 on: January 12, 2023, 05:46:13 pm »

Hmph, if it was all for Karlito's benefit I could use PMs. The peanut gallery needs entertained, too.

We approve

E. Albright

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #471 on: January 12, 2023, 11:16:12 pm »

Oh, geez. Now THAT is what I call top-shelf grumb. Where even to begin?

Your pride-and-joy tank-augmented mechanized corps wasn't bombed into oblivion. Its HQ was nuked, and then the regiments involved in the salient that had punched straight through a heavy troop concentration on the front line (apparently killing an MGIN corps in toto b/c I noticed one was missing this turn from the unit on the receiving end of that) found themselves surrounded on 5 sides with no posture or commander. A bunch of them died in the process of being pushed back. The others that had pushed the front back 2-4 hexes and were preparing to make that bulge cut off my northern military outpost "city" by dint of the heavy tank battalion you have supporting them were pushed back through brute force once that and another OHQ were out of the picture. I lost 12k troops over the course of your turn 95 and my turn 96, BTW. That was three whole turns after the prior time you inflicted 12k casualties on me.

The mechs aren't glorified APCs. You scoffed at my micro-nukes when I first fielded them b/c they were "squishy". The reason they've been effective is b/c they can actually damage all the armor you've been throwing at me. They can sometimes kill APCs, forex. Sometimes. The mechs have ~150% the HP of your APCs, which takes them into nigh-invulnerable status when your leaders step in - plus they have 2 attacks per round at ~950 vs soft OR hard targets. They're also ATVs. They're why your16k infantry in battledress with laser rifles have successfully pushed forward into mountains occupied by defensive grenadier infantry regiments with almost no casualties, but I can't even push those units back when they're in plains. They're probably going to take Burancon this turn or the next, and I'll be unable to do anything about it.

Also, when you say your air force is using machineguns - you mean charged guass. Oh, and heavy missiles. Yes, you're using Top Grease for ground attacks, too. Which I suppose is a good segue into your industry woes. If you're lacking industrial points, it's b/c you're fielding 430 turboprop fighters with Heavy Missiles, 200 missile launchers, 190 rocket launchers, 190 mechanized artillery, and 150 SAMs. There are some motorized artillery as well. I'd LOVE to have your artillery corps, but those all those things are ruinously expensive to deploy, and also expensive to shoot. I straight-up can't afford those, and as a result have only a handful of SAM batteries and nukes (10Mt tactical, TYVM - 50Mt ICBMs would be a VERY different story).

Relatedly: if your your losses are causing as much unrest as you claim, a big reason is precisely what you IDed: you're deep Meritocracy/Commerce/Mind - you're Morgan from SMAC, and that doesn't translate to a people who like adversity. I, OTOH, am jack of all trades and master of none (I'd say Democracy, but I've only recently gotten the T3 feat, eesh). I have basic casualty tolerance boosts from 50 Fist, and have further been spending my thin-spread PP on casualty tolerance stratagems - plus basic QOL boosts from Dem. The tradeoff is that I've got a 65% research bonus (with probably a third of that from Science Lab fate cards) and credits remain a real concern despite my 40% tax rate & 25% sales tax. By what you've got and said, your res bonus is probably over 150% and you can effectively print credits. Despite all that, the only aspect of industrial infrastructure where you don't have a clear lead on me despite my higher city count is High Tech, and that's only marginally useful ATM.

FWIW, my naming schema is consistent even if it might seem confusing to untrained personnel. A team is a team, a workgroup a workgroup, etc. The Intrusive Audit Workgroup is the equivalent of a mechanized light armored infantry brigade with a couple customizations, not a mechanized infantry corps. That mess came about from my early prioritization of my Staff Council. Despite that, I've only gotten grenadiers in the last couple turns, grr... But yeah, we'd hardly be proper bureaucrats if we didn't use obscure and opaque jargon.

Finally, I can't say I find your analysis re: Mabarion convincing. When Hornstein invaded  my detached vassals, I had 1 and 2 zones' worth of militia to defend them, and while Richilieu died horribly with no SHQ to support it, Alderkopf and Robespierre raised an SHQ and with that stopped their advance after falling back 7 hexes (and losing ~20-30k troops). From there, they bootstrapped a single (Guass Rifle and Heavy Combat Armor-tier) BDE from their Light Industries and a Recycling Center, and held the line with that and the crumbling militia for long enough to recruit (normally and with cards) troops enough to raise two more, at which point they started pushing Hornstein back despite that nation switching to an "all armor, all the time" order of battle. One of the reasons your initial push went as fast as it did when you went to war with me this game (and why you flattened me last game) is b/c I very frequently go through entire single-player games (on large maps) with 5-10 OHQs, and knowing how well those do against AIs makes it hard for some part of me to acknowledge that at a certain point, you just need boots occupying ground. 6 last-gen BDEs are more than enough to invade Mabarion and make conquests.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #472 on: January 13, 2023, 06:53:13 am »

Thank you for painting such an uplifting picture of my situation. It will keep my morale up until I actually open the turn and the spell is broken.
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E. Albright

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #473 on: January 13, 2023, 02:28:36 pm »

Well, I mean, it hadn't really occurred to me that opportunistically nuking momentarily vulnerable troop formations could be hurting your economy even if it doesn't change the immediate strategic situation. So, um, get ready for more of that.

[I still can barely scratch your front-line units on offense, so the meat-grinder stalemate hasn't changed, and doesn't seem like it will until you finish your current nukzooka research.]
« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 02:33:24 pm by E. Albright »
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Karlito

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #474 on: January 13, 2023, 02:34:49 pm »

I'm glad you two are still having fun.
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E. Albright

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #475 on: January 13, 2023, 03:56:21 pm »

If we get to the point where we're not, we can call it. For my part, I'm still getting some frustrated satisfaction out of muddling through.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #476 on: January 13, 2023, 04:10:39 pm »

You joking? 'Tis the shit I play for.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #477 on: January 20, 2023, 08:32:24 am »


Karlito, I hope you like rebuilding several missing battalions each turn. Otherwise you may want to attack me instead.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 09:29:31 am by Il Palazzo »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #478 on: January 20, 2023, 10:00:30 am »

I don't think I've ever gotten to the Nuke Hurling stage.  Does it do anything but destroy units?

Il Palazzo

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Re: Shadow Empire PBEM round 2: game on
« Reply #479 on: January 20, 2023, 10:39:57 am »

You mean, things like this?:
Otherwise it's 'just' terribly effective artillery.

But for all I know it could also be doing the laundry, washing dishes, and solving global warming. I've only ever been on the receiving end.
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