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[hector13]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, tell you what.

There are two town, two mafia, and two third parties left.

What happens when both the third parties side with the mafia?

The mafia lynch the town and win, that's what happens.

Hey mafia. BHK and I made a plan in our quicktopic. If you reveal yourselves we'll vote with you to lynch the town. Thanks!
Alternatively there are no mafia and I'm just being stupid. But hey, I've already won.

Yes, yes, I know Moony can shoot from the grave. Doesn't matter. If he shoots one of you, mafia+third parties still have majority. Shoots me... fail. Shoots BHK? Still majority. Doesn't matter what happens, mafia+third parties win.
Or there are no mafia and I'm going to be lynched along with BHK. But I've already won so what have I to lose?!
Oh and for good measure I can use my own night kill as you wish to mop up the town. Or steal a townie's vote.

And then hector13 was right all along. Never trust a third party, I guess. Nyahahaha.

Just to summarize BHK and I are offering to vote with the mafia to lynch the town if the mafia reveal themselves.

And... explosion.

First of all, fuck you FoU for making me go trawling through that game again, I made a hugely embarrassing mistake on D1 on top of all the third-party bullshit :p

Secondly, I think the spoilered post - unmodified by me - should adequately explain my abject hatred for third parties. I mentioned earlier I was proven right post-game not to trust the third-party, evidently I buried this post in some place I shouldn’t have dragged it from.

Further, I think it might explain FoU’s post that everyone is so freaked out over. He was loving that game, and probably enjoyed reminding me of it. Little did he know I ruminate on it more often than I should.

Consequently, I think that’s what the weirdness of his post was:” how paranoid are you going to be in 10 minutes… when you remember how horrible that game was that I claimed third party pretty much immediately and you railed against me for 50+ pages until I sided with the mafia?”

So yeah… I’m disinclined to think FoU is scum, apparently as everyone is doing based solely on “that weirdness”.

Now, I will also say I haven’t played with FoU for the longest time and apparently I really like playing games with FoU, so that may be colluding my perception a bit here.  It I genuinely don’t see what other people are seeing.

Leaning toward NJW, being worried about mafia allies, and maybe Jim, but that’s because I like being a hypocrite so I up his “focusing on third parties” scum tell with “going after low-hanging fruit” scum tell.

[hector13]

EBWOP: “colluding” should be “colouring” because apparently there shouldn’t be a u in colour.

[Maximum Spin]

Consequently, I think that’s what the weirdness of his post was:” how paranoid are you going to be in 10 minutes… when you remember how horrible that game was that I claimed third party pretty much immediately and you railed against me for 50+ pages until I sided with the mafia?”

I don't quite think Fallacy can read your mind either, though.

Actually, this post kind of did end up convincing me... that Fallacy may really be a mally who thinks you're the mafia, trying to signal you that he's a third party on your side by reminding you of this game. It's exactly the kind of thing I'd want you to be thinking about if I were trying to signal that. Since you reacted this way, though, it does make me think he guessed wrong, unless you just genuinely didn't get the message (extremely possible and why I'm not townreading you yet) or are trying to sacrifice him (seems early for that).

Lastly... that quote contains exactly the same kind of weirdness I feel like I see in Fallacy right now. A little bit of a singsong "I know something you don't know!" feel. You can see it in the quote just before he drops the mask. I mean, I see it, I don't know if you will. I guess you already said you don't.
For the record, I'm not very happy with NJW either, but I don't currently think he's likely to be teamed with Fallacy, so I have to pick one or the other.

[hector13]

I mean… I don’t mean to cast aspersions on FoU, but similar to the whole “he’s dropping clues with a 10-4!” thing, I don’t think he’s smart enough to do that. Or maybe he doesn’t think I’m smart enough, that’s probably a better way to put it heh.

It would require him to have remembered the post I linked specifically, and either that I remember it off the top of my head, or find it again 4 years later and link it with the idea that he’s a mafia ally instead of hating third parties because of it.

It’s a little too unbelievable.

Occam’s Razor. We obviously can’t prove FoU was not thinking that, but I think it’s still much more likely he was referencing a game in which he claimed third-party early and how horrible I found the experience, and was comparing it with this game.

It would be a helluva distancing game if NJW and FoU were partners but like I say, I don’t think FoU is scum based on what everyone else does.

[Maximum Spin]

I mean… I don’t mean to cast aspersions on FoU, but similar to the whole “he’s dropping clues with a 10-4!” thing, I don’t think he’s smart enough to do that. Or maybe he doesn’t think I’m smart enough, that’s probably a better way to put it heh.

It would require him to have remembered the post I linked specifically, and either that I remember it off the top of my head, or find it again 4 years later and link it with the idea that he’s a mafia ally instead of hating third parties because of it.

It’s a little too unbelievable.

But like I said,

Consequently, I think that’s what the weirdness of his post was:” how paranoid are you going to be in 10 minutes… when you remember how horrible that game was that I claimed third party pretty much immediately and you railed against me for 50+ pages until I sided with the mafia?”

I don't quite think Fallacy can read your mind either, though.

don't you imply you DO think Fallacy intended to remind you of that? I don't think it necessarily takes that much brainpower to say "hey, remember that time when I was a third-party and teamed up with the mafia? Yeah, just keep that in mind" - I don't even have to believe he intended to signal you, since I currently have no idea why he would pick you out specifically, unless he knows something I don't; he could just as easily be counting on you passing on the message by making reference to exactly the event that you did.

Okay, yes, it's a stretch, but I did say "may really be a mally".

It would be a helluva distancing game if NJW and FoU were partners

I could see myself doing it, but I would've covered my retreat better than I think NJW did. It'd look suspicious if he backs down now; there was a window where he could have voted you over Fallacy, but now that a few other players have all countenanced voting Fallacy, it'd be impossible to ignore. Of course, I made my own comment proposing voting for Fallacy for precisely that reason.

[FallacyofUrist]

I find it hilarious that players are even considering the idea that I'm enough of a planner to pull that absurd signaling strategy off.

In any case, I think my strategy for the time being will be to try and figure out which players were most opportunistic about using my behavior as a reason to vote. The players most eager to either bandwagon and avoid suspicion and/or take the easiest available case, that is to say.

[Maximum Spin]

In any case, I think my strategy for the time being will be to try and figure out which players were most opportunistic about using my behavior as a reason to vote. The players most eager to either bandwagon and avoid suspicion and/or take the easiest available case, that is to say.

Nobody even voted you.

[FallacyofUrist]

Well they should. How else are people supposed to apply pressure / put their money where their mouth is? Aside from that, it's the RVS. What are you going to do aside from voting randomly?

Shows issues with not wanting to commit. There's another alley I can look into - who has the strongest position on me, while also not voting?

[Maximum Spin]

As for me, personally, with so few players, I'm just really nervy about voting after... the last time. Which is my version of that game hector13 wants to forget. With that lesson on top of my typical conservatism about wanting to put my vote where I plan to keep it, I don't think I'm going to be voting first on anyone unless something really unexpected comes up.

[hector13]

Hmm… FoU does pull off some weird shit sometimes, claiming TP being an example, then throwing in his lot with the mafia…

But nah, nah, nah, even in this case if he was trying to signal like that, expecting me to pull up that post or something similar, he’d still only be the ally, not the scum. It wouldn’t be ideal having the ally around, but if we find the scum it wouldn’t matter, he’d still lose even if he’s still alive I’m pretty sure.

I still don’t think he’s scum scum, aye? It’s a power heavy game, he can be dealt with if he is a mally, probably.

PPE: you are correct, money where your mouth is.

NJW

[notquitethere]

The testers began running through simulations, running unit tests, trying out bizarre combinations, but their reports weren't all stacking up. On top of that, workplace romances seemed to take up much of the time in the office.

The day will end 8th September 2022, 10AM BST, unless majority is voting for any player or No Lynch. Hammer at 5.

Vote Count
- Maximum Spin
- ToonyMan
- TricMagic
- KnightWing64
- NJW2000 - ToonyMan, Hector13 [2]
- Jim Groovester
- FallacyofUrist
- Hector13
- No Launch

[Knightwing64]

Workplace romances? Oooooooo


Spicy


(I won’t be posting much for the next couple hours, due to the rigors of high school. Pray for me brothers)


The last time I voted for someone else ho acted like a obvious scum was Tric, and it turned out he was just a townie with a very “special” mindset, so I dunno about Fallacy. I like the name tho

[NJW2000]

Huh... careful with that ability, Knightwing. We may want to hold Tric captive a little. For glorious reeducation, if necessary.

What makes you think it's an ability? Unless I missed one of Knightwing's posts?

I thought he was the befriender, given he was claiming he could townconfirm himself, and there probably is a befriender because Tric is probably telling the truth.

The claim from Jim makes me reconsider that assumption.

Not sure how I feel about the Jim thing... I guess it makes me want to keep him alive, as it's an incentive for scum to not nightkill me. And it's kind of confirmable. I guess it wouldn't make much sense to claim as mafia, at least. Probably Town.
Max is correct, I haven't claimed anything yet. I don't think my role is going to give any deep insights into how this setup works, so probably not going to today.
I did get why Hector and FoU might have been naturally talking about mafiakart racing... there was just something weird about the exchange.


Briefly, reads:

Knightwing Town. Jim probably Town due to claim, absence of wolfish behaviour, fabulous entrance. Tric is third party and probably telling the truth.

I'm bad at reading Max. I guess I'll have a look at some of his scum games at some point today.

Can't tell with Toony... I find them quite difficult to read, and they're just very strong.
Max: what do you think of Toony this game - still leaning Town? Also, I remember Web once saying you had a theory about Toony's play - does that have any bearing on this game so far?

Hector has been focused on 3p and defending himself today - despite claim that daygame most important. Vote on me mostly unexplained, seems to be on the basis that I'm signalling mally. Nonetheless, didn't immediately go for killing the possibly town-recruitable third party Tric after the "lie" was exposed. Some gut sense that they actually believe in the reasonableness of their own points. Unsure.

At this stage, prefer FoU over Hector. Partly because, as Hector rightly points out, the weirdness I've seen was mostly on FoU's side, and partly because Hector has made some posts that do inspire confidence. On the other hand:

Dubious signalling theory aside, FoU doesn't look great. Stuff like this - claims we're still in RVS when we're patently not, and pre-emptively threatens/justifies going after players for their votes on FoU. Their next post talks about scumhunting without, again, actually doing any. Bad in itself, also doesn't line up with FoU's townplay from what I remember, though I haven't played with them much.

I wouldn't say they're activelurking, but I would say a lot of their posts do very little to potentially advance the game. Their first five posts this game, say, have a lot of questions and observations but basically nothing interesting.

Yeah, FallacyofUrist seems like a good choice.

[ToonyMan]

I can't believe I agree with a D1 NJW case.

FallacyofUrist. I think FoU is up to no good and do like NJW more currently.

[ToonyMan]

Hmm… FoU does pull off some weird shit sometimes, claiming TP being an example, then throwing in his lot with the mafia…

But nah, nah, nah, even in this case if he was trying to signal like that, expecting me to pull up that post or something similar, he’d still only be the ally, not the scum. It wouldn’t be ideal having the ally around, but if we find the scum it wouldn’t matter, he’d still lose even if he’s still alive I’m pretty sure.

I still don’t think he’s scum scum, aye? It’s a power heavy game, he can be dealt with if he is a mally, probably.

PPE: you are correct, money where your mouth is.

NJW

A mally!FoU majorly fucked up if NJW is mafia. You're voting NJW because you think they're mafia right?

Even if FoU is only mally that's still strong, as it's unlikely I can get to them before dying.