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Author Topic: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Game Over - Scum Win  (Read 19353 times)

ToonyMan

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #90 on: September 05, 2022, 06:50:01 pm »

What about the FoU thing is odd though? I might not be seeing anything due to being quite distracted this day, but it didn’t raise any red flags.
FoU has two sentences back-to-back, both questions, that involve a number. First 10 and then 4.

The way FoU asks these questions is unnatural and warrants suspicion.
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NJW2000

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2022, 07:02:53 pm »

TricMagic.
No. Maybe instead vote Jim for being evil and lazy?
True, Unvote, this is just Tric and I'm pretty sure he's being 100% honest. But the vote made it more dramatic and there was a small chance he was pulling something and would give info under pressure.

Who is Jim?


I mean you seem hyper-focused on this mafia and mafia ally thing. Why are we to think you’re not telegraphing that you’re the ally to your scum team?

Even if there was anything like that happening, I suspect I interrupted way too early for it to be definite. Something's off about the opening few posts though, but whatever it is, I quite possibly haven't picked up on it properly. I still think your specific post I addressed separately was dubious, but your play has been constructive, so hmmm.

I wouldn't telegraph this blatantly as mally... I'm still kind of in awe at the subtlety of the hints Web dropped in the game I saw him play mafia-ally in, and would probably try to imitate that.




Huh... careful with that ability, Knightwing. We may want to hold Tric captive a little. For glorious reeducation, if necessary.
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Jim Groovester

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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2022, 07:58:18 pm »

What about the FoU thing is odd though? I might not be seeing anything due to being quite distracted this day, but it didn’t raise any red flags.
FoU has two sentences back-to-back, both questions, that involve a number. First 10 and then 4.

The way FoU asks these questions is unnatural and warrants suspicion.
Ok, this has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but either I have full on pareidolia or there is something weird happening between FoU and Hector. I may just be spinning my wheels because the Tric thing wasn't that interesting.

The answer is four. And sure, there was a third party there that stayed in the game for some reason, I think... but still:

10-4. "OK."

Toony, you remember Web trying to secretly communicate with you as a mafia-ally. Does this look anything like that?
...

You two think I'm crafty enough for that? I'm either insane or blunt, with no in-between.

But to give a more reasonable objecting point, if you think I'm doing some weird shit with hector, you have to look at both of our behavior patterns, not just mine.



If I can’t blow shit up and brag about it, I’m dissatisfied.
Sorry for not posting, My mafia finding strategy is mostly a combination of gut instinct and noticing when people are acting strange, or unusual.


My role is useless other then proving my innocence to other players, so, I’m kinda a non factor. I’m not of high importance, unless having a confirmed townie is awesome
Knightwing appears more focused than normal. I think I'm willing to chalk that up to actually gaining experience rather than having a mentor or such.

Do we actually have any record of what scum-Wing looks like?


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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2022, 08:01:28 pm »

Huh... careful with that ability, Knightwing. We may want to hold Tric captive a little. For glorious reeducation, if necessary.
What makes you think it's an ability? Unless I missed one of Knightwing's posts?



Re: Tric: I think he's being honest about being a third party, as claiming third party to obstruct being scum wouldn't be in character for Tric. The fact that another player has claimed the existence of a Befriend ability also backs up his claimed win condition. If he hasn't left the game by Day 2 we might have to revisit though, because I'm assuming he'll use global magnetism tonight.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2022, 08:01:49 pm »

I was in the middle of typing up a post but then I had to restart my computer because I've been trying out Linux on my desktop for kicks and giggles and it's been causing me issues.

Some initial thoughts from the first half of the game that I was able to read and create comments for (that I then lost) and then skimming through the remaining pages:

I read Knightwing64 as town from his first post
I can probably do something about TricMagic, which I'll explain shortly
I agree with NJW2000's read about hector13 worrying too much about third parties for some reason, which is the first time I've ever felt like I've been on the same page as him

What I DO agree with on that post, though, is lynching Jim for being evil and lazy. He's one of several people I have mentally listed as "lynch if too quiet d1".

Can I do shit on labor day with family without people suspecting me for being too quiet
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2022, 08:05:51 pm »

Re: Tric: I think he's being honest about being a third party, as claiming third party to obstruct being scum wouldn't be in character for Tric. The fact that another player has claimed the existence of a Befriend ability also backs up his claimed win condition. If he hasn't left the game by Day 2 we might have to revisit though, because I'm assuming he'll use global magnetism tonight.
Wait, I misremembered. I falsely remembered the claimed third-party conversion as being a Befriend. My mistake. Still, that claimed conversion... doesn't technically back up Tric's alignment's existence at all. Useless abilities may exist.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2022, 08:14:11 pm »

Unless I'm stupid my role has very narrow utility. I'm a super befriendist and I can feed everyone who targets NJW2000, which has a 75%/25% chance of me befriending or infecting the target.

So if TricMagic is telling the truth, he can target NJW2000, and I will either befriend him, allowing him to win and therefore leave the game, or I infect him and he dies at the end of the next night, which also solves his slot.

This is my only action so I will be doing this every night I am able.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #98 on: September 05, 2022, 08:24:23 pm »

...

You two think I'm crafty enough for that? I'm either insane or blunt, with no in-between.

But to give a more reasonable objecting point, if you think I'm doing some weird shit with hector, you have to look at both of our behavior patterns, not just mine.
Why ask someone how paranoid they'll be ten minutes from now? Does that sound like a natural question?

Unless I'm stupid my role has very narrow utility. I'm a super befriendist and I can feed everyone who targets NJW2000, which has a 75%/25% chance of me befriending or infecting the target.

So if TricMagic is telling the truth, he can target NJW2000, and I will either befriend him, allowing him to win and therefore leave the game, or I infect him and he dies at the end of the next night, which also solves his slot.

This is my only action so I will be doing this every night I am able.
Jim is town.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2022, 08:27:54 pm »

KnightWing64 - town, can confirm themselves as town to others?
Jim Groovester - town, will befriend or infect anybody that targets NJW

Maximum Spin - probably town

NJW2000 - town?
Hector13 - suspicious
FallacyofUrist - suspicious

TricMagic - third-party who just wants to make a friend, invite him over to NJW's house for dinner I hear Jim makes a mean lasagna that may kill you 25% of the time
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #100 on: September 05, 2022, 08:28:13 pm »

Jim is town.
I'm going to have to agree with your provisional assessment.

Why ask someone how paranoid they'll be ten minutes from now? Does that sound like a natural question?
To see their reaction? Why else would I do it?

A question doesn't have to make sense to gather information.

I am very much in the business of not always making sense. I am, after all, Fallacy.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #101 on: September 05, 2022, 08:36:10 pm »

To see their reaction? Why else would I do it?
You could argue such odd phrases are signaling. It lines up too well, your playful prodding of Hector looks like signaling. I don't believe you buddying up with Hector makes Hector mafia, but I don't like your behavior there.

I want to vote you or NJW today.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #102 on: September 05, 2022, 08:57:54 pm »

NJW2000 - town?
Hector13 - suspicious
FallacyofUrist - suspicious
I want to vote you or NJW today.
Why NJW2000 over Hector, when you just put Hector as more suspicious than NJW?

You could argue such odd phrases are signaling. It lines up too well, your playful prodding of Hector looks like signaling. I don't believe you buddying up with Hector makes Hector mafia, but I don't like your behavior there.
Does it make sense as signaling, coming from me, though?

For the record (this is WIFOM, but I do want it in the thread), if I was a mafia-ally, I wouldn't even bother with signaling, I'd just attempt to subtly support whoever I think is most likely to be mafia.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #103 on: September 05, 2022, 09:28:59 pm »

Good morning everyone

Cool, town Knightwing64.

Jim: how are you going to deal with Knightwing this game? Do you think last game will help you read them?

I dunno I'll just wing it like I always do.

Clearly Knightwing64 self destructing isn't alignment indicative but the actual game commentary he's been giving points to town Knightwing64 in my opinion.

third party anxiety

Isn't focusing too much on third parties a classic scum tell, or at least that's what people say it is?

Ruh-roh, I'm worried for town, let's talk third parties, there's probably only one scum.
This post really doesn't fill me with confidence.

I kind of agree with this.

Ok, this has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but either I have full on pareidolia or there is something weird happening between FoU and Hector. I may just be spinning my wheels because the Tric thing wasn't that interesting.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Toony, you remember Web trying to secretly communicate with you as a mafia-ally. Does this look anything like that?

Initially I was going to say you're reading way too much into things, but on a second look at the entire post it is pretty odd.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think the 10-4 stuff might be a bit of a reach but calling hector13 scum (in jest, of course) while also mentioning third parties in the next line is

odd.

Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.
Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.

Ey, death millers, neato.

Either way, not much else I can do given my gambit ran into hard facts I didn't know.

I think this is the most TricMagic post I've seen.

Do we actually have any record of what scum-Wing looks like?

Demon Mafia and Traitors in the Fortress are the most recent examples.

I don't feel like this is scum Knightwing64. Demon Mafia is pretty fresh in my mind; Traitors in the Fortress isn't but I think Knightwing64 was very quiet in that game.



Feeling okay about Knightwing64, I believe TricMagic, ToonyMan feels okay, Maximum Spin feels okay, NJW2000 also feels okay somehow. hector13 and FallacyofUrist don't feel as okay but I'm not confident in labeling hector13 scum. I think in this scenario I'm most okay with FallacyofUrist at the current moment.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 4 - Day 1 Begins! - Dwarf Fortress? Elf Fortress more like!
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2022, 11:25:56 pm »

All right, Jim seems pretty town from my perspective.

Given the field of play this leaves behind (after accounting for the fact that Jim's ability makes Tric's claim believable), I think the right lynch for now is FallacyofUrist. I don't necessarily buy the signalling hypothesis, but he HAS been weird in a way that is consistent with known scum Fallacies. These days, I find I like to get d1 over with quickly, but I think I want to hear a little more before voting and potentially setting off a wagon this time.

I'd like to note that NJW2000 is the only one I haven't seen any kind of softclaim from yet, unless I missed one. I submit this as a curio without any assertion that it's alignment indicative.
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