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[TricMagic]

...I have been informed that giving an item is technically P10 but, despite specifying who I give it to, somehow isn't targeted and thus can't be redirected?

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.

Because I trust you and expected to die by some fuckery last night, be it a misguided town vigilante, the mafia, a third party, or a redirected kill of some sort. For understandable reasons I wasn't going to give just anyone that item so I gave it to my top town.

This, meanwhile, is just freaking odd. Why would giving a dead man a gift save them?

[Jim Groovester]

My response

FAIR ENOUGH.

YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOING TO HAVE TO TRUST ME. WE'RE NOT LYNCHING 4MASKWOLF TODAY.

[4maskwolf]

Okay why Jim Groovester is town in three parts.

1. Jim seemed genuinely lost on D1 as far as who to go after. Jim's been playing mafia for well long enough to know how to fake it as a wolf so the fact that he, specifically, was lost on figuring out who the wolves were is a good look.
2. Jim seemed to be having fun with his role. This is the "dumb reasons" I alluded to when I first gave a townread on Jim. Jim's play in wolf games has always seemed pretty no-nonsense wolfing so him having fun with his role seemed out of character for wolf Jim.
3 (and the most important one). Coming in second on the miller claims is a pretty big deal. Fake-claiming miller first is easy, any wolf with enough guts can go for it and will probably get believed. Fake-claiming miller third in a 9-player game is a little harder, just because it looks odder, but still fairly easy because there's enough millers to diffuse suspicion if people want to start whacking miller claims. Claiming miller second, though... much harder. If nobody else claims miller you've basically counterclaimed an actual miller if people get suspicious of the miller claims (which is a pretty pointless counterclaim). In general, the only time the wolves like to the second to claim something is if they're hard-counterclaiming when going for the win, and even then they prefer to claim first. There's just an inherent suspicion to claiming second that wolves like to avoid if at all possible, and I don't think Jim casually walks into that suspicion when nobody is pushing him in the first place.

[4maskwolf]

...I have been informed that giving an item is technically P10 but, despite specifying who I give it to, somehow isn't targeted and thus can't be redirected?

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.

Because I trust you and expected to die by some fuckery last night, be it a misguided town vigilante, the mafia, a third party, or a redirected kill of some sort. For understandable reasons I wasn't going to give just anyone that item so I gave it to my top town.

This, meanwhile, is just freaking odd. Why would giving a dead man a gift save them?

Tric pls.

I said I kinda expected to die, not that I expected Jim to die.

[TricMagic]

Still doesn't answer what you got from MY death. If it's themed, you have a decent chance of proving your claim.

[4maskwolf]

Still doesn't answer what you got from MY death. If it's themed, you have a decent chance of proving your claim.

You can either trust Jim's judgement or you can choose not to. What I got off of you is valuable enough I don't want the wolves to be able to play around it short of roleblocking me.

[TricMagic]

One issue is, we need to trust trust you to trust you. I don't. More likely you're a counter to the powers around, especially if you can just ignore redirects.

[Jim Groovester]

One issue is, we need to trust trust you to trust you. I don't. More likely you're a counter to the powers around, especially if you can just ignore redirects.

4MASKWOLF IS EXEMPT FROM MY POWER THAT REDIRECTS ALL PLAYERS WHO TARGETED ME TO HIM.

[EuchreJack]

My response

FAIR ENOUGH.

YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOING TO HAVE TO TRUST ME. WE'RE NOT LYNCHING 4MASKWOLF TODAY.

...fine.  But mafia inventor is a thing, you know?
UNVOTE
..as to why I'm following Jim's dictate, it sounds like something town!Jim would say.  Scum!Jim doesn't stick his neck out like that, unless the scum team is exactly 4maskwolf & Jim.  Now, other players as scum would totally do that (Web is my prime example, Toony maybe). But scum!Jim lets townies kill townies.

[EuchreJack]

Still doesn't answer what you got from MY death. If it's themed, you have a decent chance of proving your claim.

Tric: If Jim is town, then we need to trust Jim to reveal the item when he deems it necessary, and not before.
Also: 4maskwolf claiming an item they could have gotten off your corpse just means they're a scavenger, not that they are town.  So it really doesn't mean so much.

[EuchreJack]

@4maskwolf: Please clarify - Did you start with an item that you gave to Jim, then get an item from Tric's death that you plan to use tonight?
Could you have used your initial item yourself?

[Maximum Spin]

I think what is bothering me the most about 4maskwolf is that their claim is confusing.
Even Jim's claim at least makes some marginal sense.
Now, I know what I have.  And others have shared what they have.  So, we know that most players have:
Auto
Ability 1
Ability 2

Oh right, since I now think ToonyMan is town, I should stipulate: I have no autos, and never had any autos, which is why I was unconcerned about ToonyMan's auto-wipe. I didn't say this before because I figured there was a shot I might intercept a hostile wipe attempt.

[Roden]

My response

FAIR ENOUGH.

YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOING TO HAVE TO TRUST ME. WE'RE NOT LYNCHING 4MASKWOLF TODAY.

Ok, but I'm still gonna Vig there.

[Jim Groovester]

I'VE BEEN STUMPED BY THE GAME SO I MORE OR LESS AVOIDED IT OVER THE WEEKEND. SHAME ON ME, ETC. I'VE ALSO BEEN TRYING TO PUT A POST TOGETHER FOR THE LAST SEVERAL HOURS THAT DID A LOT OF ANALYSIS AND STUFF BUT ULTIMATELY I'M JUST GOING TO STICK WITH THIS.

PEOPLE JIM DOES NOT WANT TO LYNCH:
TOONYMAN
TRICMAGIC
4MASKWOLF

PEOPLE JIM THINKS WOULD NOT BE PRODUCTIVE TO LYNCH:
MAXIMUM SPIN
EUCHREJACK

PEOPLE JIM IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT LYNCHING:
NOTQUITETHERE
RODEN


THERE ARE VERY FEW UNIVERSES WHERE 4MASKWOLF IS SCUM AND WILLINGLY GIVES ME THE ITEM HE DID. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT HE IS SCUM GOING FOR 500 IQ PLAYS AND IF HE IS I AM GOING TO BE VERY IMPRESSED.

I DON'T THINK TRICMAGIC WILLINGLY PREVENTS A KILL FROM HAPPENING IF HE'S SCUM, EXCEPT IF HE'S PLAYING 200 IQ GAMES. ALSO, THROUGH MANY NIGHT 1 COINCIDENCES I ENDED UP WATCHING TRICMAGIC AND ONLY TOONYMAN VISITED HIM SO THE ODDS OF HIM BEING SCUM AND FRIENDLY FIRE TAKING HIM OUT ARE LOW, SO I THINK HIS CLAIM CHECKS OUT.

FROM MY ROLE RESULTS I KNOW TOONYMAN DEMONSTRABLY DID SOMETHING AND A LOT OF THINGS WOULD HAVE TO PERFECTLY LINE UP FOR HIM TO BE FAKECLAIMING SO I'D SAY HE PROBABLY WAS NOT ATTEMPTING A NIGHT KILL. GENERALLY HE'S BEING ACTIVE AND TRYING TO SOLVE THE GAME AS WELL AND OTHER GOOD FUZZY FEELINGS.

MAXIMUM SPIN HINTED AT BEING A COP NOT JUST DURING DAY 2 BUT ALSO DURING DAY 1 DURING THE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE MANY MILLERS. IT'S TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE HE COULD BE SCUM BUT HE'S PLAYING COP CORRECTLY; DROPPING HINTS, AVOIDING CLAIMING, ETC.

EUCHREJACK HAS BEEN LESS ENGAGED DURING DAY 2 BUT I THINK THAT'S TRUE OF A LOT OF PLAYERS IN THE GAME BUT I THINK MY DAY 1 READ OF HIM BEING TOWN STILL APPLIES.

THIS LEAVES NOTQUITETHERE AND RODEN. NEITHER PLAYER DOES THINGS THAT TERRIBLY AGGRAVATE ME OR MAKE ME SUSPECT THEM BUT I SEE THEM AS LESS UNLIKELY TO BE SCUM THAN EVERYBODY ELSE.

BETWEEN THE TWO I THINK I PREFER RODEN SLIGHTLY MORE SO I AM GOING TO GO WITH NOTQUITETHERE. IF IT'S NOT NOTQUITETHERE OR RODEN THEN I AM GOING TO BE VERY CONFUSED.

[Roden]

@Jack: I don't believe we have two Trackers. Why the hell would town have two Trackers, two Docs that are situationally invulnerable, and two redirectors? Also why is 4mask town here? Why does town also get a scavenger that can essentially act as a backup to any townie that actually manages to die?