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[ToonyMan]

I asked Tric that because I still find it incredibly stupid. I wanted more of an explanation to read them. Same for Lucky and Blue.

[4maskwolf]

@4mask:
I see your first point and agree with it. If Lucky is scum he would definitely take the deal. I'm not sure what optimal play is which is why I used your name.

As for your second point, I don't see what's different. I've hated Lucky most of this game. If I see something I don't like I say something, doesn't matter who.

That doesn't really explain why one moment you were pressing him because "you made what I consider the best play and I don't believe you're a good enough player to do that" and the next minute you're pressing him because "why didn't you make what a highly mechanical player considers to be an optimal play". Those things are straight up contradictory, Lucky can't both be too incompetent to make a theoretically optimal play and so competent that he should have considered making a different theoretically optimal play before it was even brought up. It seems like you're just grasping at anything to attack Luckyowl regardless of whether your case has any internal consistency.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
4maskwolf: 1: Luckyowl
IcyTea31: 1: Persus13
Jim Groovester: 1: Vector
juicebox: 1: BluarianKnight
Luckyowl: 2: notquitethere, ToonyMan
notquitethere: 1: TricMagic
Persus13: 1: Jim Groovester
Toaster: 1: webadict
ToonyMan: 1: 4maskwolf


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday

@MOD:
Which third-party can be converted?

You don't know. (This is a hidden set-up for Scum and 3rd parties, after all)

@MOD:
A conversion wouldn't stop a priest from performing their resurrection the same night, correct?

Correct. A kill could stop it, but not a conversion.

[4maskwolf]

This vote spread always catches a wolf.

[IcyTea31]

ToonyMan

Interesting case, and I don't disagree with much of it; Lucky is very much lynchable. A couple of the points seem a little forced, though:

2. Someone else on his team could be the priest, meaning Lucky is still a possible converter (being completely puppeteered by his partners but still).

Why is the exact role-per-player composition of the scumteam important, especially when we don't know what else they might have?

5. Claims a Devil visited them on Night 1 and they declined the offer. Lucky doesn't even fully read threads he's in as town, there's no way he would read other games. This smart-tell from Lucky makes me believe his scummates are assisting heavily.

Why wouldn't Lucky, a complete newb, accept a Devil deal?

"I just used up my priest revive, having another ability would surely help town."

The whole thing is fishy.

Why wouldn't the scumteam accept the same deal?


Persus13

Being lynched or voted is a powerful motivator for people to post, regardless of alignment, and Juicebox said it was a PFP. What makes you think this is alignment indicative more than just checking the thread on  a break and firing off something?

That juicebox was not a part of the conversation until the CFD, and jumped in eleven minutes after NQT's call for it. That's reading the thread, but choosing not to participate in it unless absolutely necessary, i.e. lurking.

I stayed on Toaster pretty much all of day end, does that weakly link me to anyone?

Hardly, because you're another who barely posted in those last couple of hours.

[4maskwolf]

This wagon formation always catches a wolf.

EBWOP, because I remembered what the proper phrase was.

[Jim Groovester]

Quick note before I go to work.

ToonyMan, there's merit in your case on Luckyowl, but he's almost certainly not the converter, so why are you focusing on him?

[4maskwolf]

-sigh-

I know my name isn't Toonyman but this is getting really aggravating to hear the same stupid argument over and over.

Who the converter is does not matter, at least not more than finding any other wolf.

There is no reason to believe we're facing a full cult (the ONLY case in which finding the converter is somehow more important than any other wolf. And yes, I'm including Dark magus in that because finding the magus doesn't actually stop the nightkill) and strong metagame reasons to believe we're not. We're going on something like eight years since a full cult has been run in Supernatural and there have been multiple experiments with one-shot converts since then, which indicates that Meph understands the horrific problems that full cults present and has been trying to find a way to keep the cult flavor with a balanced team. Since we're confirmed to not be seeing anything new this game that means we're not going to see an attempted rebalance of a full cult, so thus, the converter doesn't matter since they're almost certainly a one-shot.

People see indications there might be a cult and freak out like "OMG must find converter" to the point where it blinds them to everything else. If there is a cult, they are one-shot and used it last night. The converter can no convert no more people. That's that, nothing more.

[TricMagic]

Persus13

Lucky has apparently decided that silence is the best option so I'll talk to you instead. I have been... less than impressed with your play thus far this game, and more specifically today. Mind giving me three people you're suspicious of, three people you think are town, and why?

Well
There's a big list of half the town who could be the converter and I'm trying to narrow it down. I'm suspicious of IcyTea and Toaster for passive play and being reactionary. Webadict made a comment D1 about Toaster throwing out questions to look active but without much follow up and that captured really well why I'm suspicious of both of them. I'm having trouble getting a good read on Vector, so I'll say they're my third, but Jim and Lucky/Blu could easily be here too.

NQT and webadict feel pretty solidly town, mainly based on my gut and their solid play. I don't really buy Toony's case on NQT, and think its largely based on null tells. I'm finding Tric super disruptive, and am not a big fan of his play, but I don't think he'd make three different claims as scum, so he'd be my third town pick. Otherwise, I'm not really getting the suspicions everyone's throwing at Juice, but he (or his replacement) needs to claim something tangible for me to solidly pick him as town.

... This isn't really better than secretdorf's list. Try harder.

[ToonyMan]

@4mask:
I see your first point and agree with it. If Lucky is scum he would definitely take the deal. I'm not sure what optimal play is which is why I used your name.

As for your second point, I don't see what's different. I've hated Lucky most of this game. If I see something I don't like I say something, doesn't matter who.

That doesn't really explain why one moment you were pressing him because "you made what I consider the best play and I don't believe you're a good enough player to do that" and the next minute you're pressing him because "why didn't you make what a highly mechanical player considers to be an optimal play". Those things are straight up contradictory, Lucky can't both be too incompetent to make a theoretically optimal play and so competent that he should have considered making a different theoretically optimal play before it was even brought up. It seems like you're just grasping at anything to attack Luckyowl regardless of whether your case has any internal consistency.

Okay, I get it. My current guess is that Luckyowl is overly competent in decision making. I'll retract my question here.

I still hold onto everything else I've stated.

@MOD:
Which third-party can be converted?

You don't know. (This is a hidden set-up for Scum and 3rd parties, after all)

So we can't keep third-party converts off the table.

@MOD:
A conversion wouldn't stop a priest from performing their resurrection the same night, correct?

Correct. A kill could stop it, but not a conversion.

Lucky is a confirmed liar.

I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.

Did you really ask this Lucky? Why isn't it actually true?

2. Someone else on his team could be the priest, meaning Lucky is still a possible converter (being completely puppeteered by his partners but still).

Why is the exact role-per-player composition of the scumteam important, especially when we don't know what else they might have?

I don't think my 2 point is very strong, but yes you're right. We don't know what scum can do, but a res did happen at least and nobody else is counter claiming.

5. Claims a Devil visited them on Night 1 and they declined the offer. Lucky doesn't even fully read threads he's in as town, there's no way he would read other games. This smart-tell from Lucky makes me believe his scummates are assisting heavily.
Why wouldn't Lucky, a complete newb, accept a Devil deal?
"I just used up my priest revive, having another ability would surely help town."
The whole thing is fishy.

Why wouldn't the scumteam accept the same deal?

I think they would, my guess is that Lucky is lying about declining.

ToonyMan, there's merit in your case on Luckyowl, but he's almost certainly not the converter, so why are you focusing on him?

There's a lot we don't know and are assuming. I'm just going to scumhunt. I think it's likely there's a converter but only one-shot. I will vote someone else if I find them scummier.


PPE:

-sigh-

I agree with this.

... This isn't really better than secretdorf's list. Try harder.

The pot calls the kettle.

[Persus13]

... This isn't really better than secretdorf's list. Try harder.

4maskwolf has the right to tell me to try harder. You don't. At this point I'm convinced if there's a Devil in this game, you're it because you seem to only care about three people in it and you not dying.

Being lynched or voted is a powerful motivator for people to post, regardless of alignment, and Juicebox said it was a PFP. What makes you think this is alignment indicative more than just checking the thread on  a break and firing off something?

That juicebox was not a part of the conversation until the CFD, and jumped in eleven minutes after NQT's call for it. That's reading the thread, but choosing not to participate in it unless absolutely necessary, i.e. lurking.

People have lives outside of mafia. You yourself are using that to explain why you've barely posted, same as Jim, but you're attacking someone else for doing the same.

[TricMagic]

And I note Lucky ignored this question:

Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?

Lucky, care to answer?

The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.

facepalms. Yeah, that isn't Luckyowl, that's someone else puppeteering the owl. Why wouldn't you take the protect? I'd love a Protect skill since it makes me a bulletproof doctor.

[IcyTea31]

People have lives outside of mafia. You yourself are using that to explain why you've barely posted, same as Jim, but you're attacking someone else for doing the same.

I wouldn't have blinked if juicebox provided no response to the CFD, but they were present enough to jump and draft a claim minutes after its start.

[TricMagic]

Right, trying harder. I did bring a read list for day 1.
shakes head

Right now I have a few theories. ToonyMan hasn't really been giving townenergy today, so them being converted makes sense. On the other side is LO not actually reading as town to me now, particularly that one post I quoted. And being caught in a lie is kinda bad. NQT still reads negatively to me. So that really leaves Juicebox and Persus as the other two suspects.

So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.

Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.

[ToonyMan]

People have lives outside of mafia. You yourself are using that to explain why you've barely posted, same as Jim, but you're attacking someone else for doing the same.

I wouldn't have blinked if juicebox provided no response to the CFD, but they were present enough to jump and draft a claim minutes after its start.

Yes. Juice is my second pick because of this.

Also you know...quietly replacing out without telling town his results.

Right, trying harder. I did bring a read list for day 1.
shakes head

Right now I have a few theories. ToonyMan hasn't really been giving townenergy today, so them being converted makes sense. On the other side is LO not actually reading as town to me now, particularly that one post I quoted. And being caught in a lie is kinda bad. NQT still reads negatively to me. So that really leaves Juicebox and Persus as the other two suspects.

So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.

Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.

You would know if somebody tried to kill you, Tric.