Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Vector]

Probable town: ToonyMan, webadict, Vector, Jim Groovester
- ToonyMan had an MVP readlist
- Feeling good on Web and Jim
- That Veckle, is just, *chef's kiss*

We're not shooting these guys today: 4mask, LuckyOwl, TricMagic, Persus
- 4mask survivor.
- LuckyOwl PR claim
- Tric hard chainsawing LuckyOwl doesn't make sense for Tric being scum and LO town. If LO is town, Tric is probably also town.
- Persus needs a chance to catch up.

That leaves:

juicebox
BluarianKnight
Toaster
IcyTea31
notquitethere


I feel good about Toony's read on juicebox for now. I would guess that 2/3 of ICT, Toaster, and NQT are scum. Leaning ICT and Toaster for sidelining right now. None of ICTs attacks have had much heft.

I'm guessing the third is BK or Persus. Of the two, I still am feeling BK over Persus, although it's kind of a moot point. To be clear, it's due to the sheeping and, again, sidelining thing.

How 'bout shooting IcyTea31?

[webadict]

Look, if we're gonna go off the theory that Luckyowl is going to rez someone (and I definitely believe they're a Priest because it's Lucky), I want it to be clear that Jim Groovester and ToonyMan are off the table. Like, I don't care what you say, I will fight you forever because they're pretty much untouchable. 4maskwolf is off the table for obvious reasons. Vector is off the table because it's a respect thing.

I'd prefer TricMagic was off the table too, but I'm going to lose that fight, and I can't actually defend Bluarian not being checked because I secretly want to know if I'm right about them being Town or if I just mesh with their playstyle too well.

Vector says IcyTea31. I'm... against it. ... Hm, maybe they'd be okay. Look, they'd be my fifth pick.

Lucky thinks IcyTea31 is part of the scum team too. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get out voted, but like... I just feel very BYOR15 about them.

I'd actually prefer Persus13, ugh, but I feel guilty because they just subbed in, and it feels genuinely like a jerk move. I'd also be okay with juicebox and Toaster. Additionally, NQT is a viable target here, but it's a scary prospect.

[Vector]

Mm, actually ranking my shoot-then-rez list:

I'm tied ICT/Toaster, then juicebox, then Persus, then ... BK? Tric? I dunno. Anyway: I'm also good with pew-pewing Toaster today.

[BluarianKnight]

I'm down to shoot at ICT or Juice myself. I'll unvote Lucky - I wanna see how his priest claim plays out before I put him back on track. Don't know Toaster's playstyle enough to understand how he's being 'weird', so he'd be a third pick.

[Vector]

. . . . . Screw it. Toaster.

[ToonyMan]

Sorry if that question wasn't clear. What I meant is what kind of mafia team do you think? Vampires, cult, werewolves, that kind of thing.

oh my bad, not really sure. It's not easy to know just yet we would have to wait and see as the game progress. I mean, what does Vampire scum do on day 1? or what does a cult scum team do as well? probably the samething as any scumteam: act as town. So I'll answer your question with I don't know as I am not familar with this set up nor have a gut feeling on what type of scumteam we have.

Uh huh...

I still want to lynch Lucky. I went back to check how scum priests work.

In Supernatural 5 here was Orangebottle's role:

Orangebottle (werewolf)
    Once a devout holy man, you are now a Priest of the Lupine Cult. Once during the game you can attempt to resurrect a dead player. However, there is no guarantee that it will work properly. But if it does, you could gain a new ally, one loyal to the Wolf God.

On Night 3, Orangebottle used their res on me after I died (I was a Town Knight) and successfully brought me back as a Werewolf Knight:

Orangebottle
You set out once again to grow your pack from the ranks of the dead, hoping that this time you will find a body to perform the Rite of Resurrection on.
You find ToonyMan’s grave, undisturbed since he was buried. You begin digging, and you unearth his casket. With your werewolf strength you pull it out easily and empty it out, spilling ToonyMan’s head and body onto graveyard grass.
You align the head and body and begin drawing the ash circle around him and place the candles at the appropriate points. You begin chanting your prayers to the Wolf God, imploring and calling upon him to return this soul to the mortal world as a servant of the Lupine Cult.
ToonyMan’s flesh heals, and his body grows in size and form and musculature and his face transforms from that of a human to that of a wolf, and you know that your request has been granted.
ToonyMan’s first sight on returning to mortality is that of your smiling face as a human, but it is time to welcome him to your pack as a wolf.

In other words, there's a high probability we would lose a town player to the mafia if the player we lynched flips town. We would have no idea and Lucky could just say "yeah the res worked I'm town guys". Best case here is that the res messes up and they come back third-party, but I still can't confirm if it's possible for them to stay town, can anybody find an example of that?

Regardless, lynching somebody else and letting Luckyowl confirm their res is far too dangerous given my feelings towards their play today.

[Jim Groovester]

Whoa whoa whoa everybody, hold on now. I haven't paid attention to anything in the last ten pages (will do a read through to catch up soon) but I'm not liking what I'm reading so far.

We shouldn't use a resurrection to bring back a player but to bring back information. If Day 1 ends up a mislynch and we resurrect them, the only thing we learn is their original role and original alignment, and the odds are preeeeeeeeeeetty goooooooooood that we might have to end up lynching them again. As Supernatural history tells us, a lot can and does go wrong with resurrections.

After Night 1 is a way better time to make this decision. If we lose LuckyOwl to a N1 kill I do not consider that to be a tragic loss of either him or his unspent resurrection and might actually consider that an optimal N1 outcome.

[ToonyMan]

This gets even better, if Lucky flips mafia then Webadict is almost confirmed town.

In this scenario, Lucky probably communicated with his scum buddies and they told him (or he decided) their whole "let's vote Webadict" ploy. Not buying it.

[webadict]

Alright, I'm gonna do something I've never done before but I saw once and it looked cool. I'm gonna do an interaction list:

I'm locking in 4maskwolf as a townie Survivor, so any interactions with them are silly.
ToonyMan and Vector are like 99% not w/w. I think if Vector and ToonyMan were w/w, ToonyMan wouldn't defend them, and would happily let me continue attacking them into Day 2 and then probably turn it around on me. I'm actually pretty sure it would work well. I'm... pretty sure that's true.
TricMagic was defending Luckyowl the entire time, so... I'd say they're definitely not w/v.
Toaster/Bluarian is w/v. Reasoning is listed in my Toaster rant, but short version is that if Blue flips w, Toaster is t 100%.
ToonyMan/juicebox is NOT w/v.
If Luckyowl is w -> NQT is w. If anything, NQT should consider that a sign of respect for their scumplay.

In addition, here's my notes of what I missed:

NQT sticking by their readslist... A little townie. A little scummy. Defending Secretdorf/Persus13 is fine, I can understand that one because we have two other viable elim candidates.
Vector... Look, if ToonyMan is willing to call them Townlean, then I'm gonna reevaluate. Worst case scenario is both ToonyMan and Vector are scum, and that possibility just isn't on the table for me.

4maskwolf is going hard on Bluarian, and I think I'm too biased to get a solid read, so I'm gonna defer to 4maskwolf's reasoning for a bit: 4maskwolf points towards many people scumreading Blue, but that's probably not gonna fly well because the same is true for TricMagic and I'm more sure of Tric than I am of Blue, so I'll disregard that point. As for falling... That's true, and Blue also fell on my own readlist, but it's mostly because their own readlist makes no sense. Is that enough to scumlean them? Not above juicebox and Secretdorf, absolutely not. Blue is more active.

I swear, I still don't know why Toaster is going after Jim Groovester. It's the COMPLETELY wrong move, and Toaster's doubling down on it STILL. It's wrong. I don't think I'm interpreting it wrong, I seriously think Toaster's trying to cast doubt on Jim, but I don't think it'll work because Jim is too Town. I think even worse than the vote on Bluarian (which... like, okay, I can't really fault them for it because I'm the only one that actually thinks Blue might be Town still, so maybe it's not awful) is the FoS on TricMagic. I feel like I'm running in circles with this one because I think Toaster doesn't see a future for TricMagic elim today, but does see Town equity in the Bluarian elim, even if Blue misflips. I'll give points here, if Blue flips scum, I'll chuck Toaster into Townread because it's definitely not a bus. Like, you could bus Blue, but I think in this case, there's too many other viable elim candidates for it to matter.

juicebox... Alright, I'm gonna play the Toony card here. I'm gonna say that juicebox is aligned with Toony. I don't think ToonyMan would stake out that hard as scum for juicebox as Town. In fact, you know what, ToonyMan convinced me to up juicebox to nullread, but no way I'm townleaning them yet. I literally cannot.

Alright, we're at Luckyowl, and I seriously wish they weren't a Priest because I know we're gonna get down to lylo with them and I'm going to cry. But, sadly I'm moving them up to Townlean because I literally have no faith in a Luckyowl fakeclaim. The only way it works is if NQT is w/w with them, but all of the onus is on NQT in that exchange. Basically, if Luckyowl flips w, IMMEDIATELY VOTE NQT.

Vector... Yeah, I dunno, maybe I'm the crazy one on that read. Am I the bad one for moving them to townlean? I'm biased because Vector moved me to Townlean and ToonyMan and Jim both have Vector as Townlean, and I actually cannot find fault in their reasoning, even if I secretly still think Vector is scum and has entered my brain playing the greatest game of all time. Hm. Okay, no, wait, I'm gonna pretend I'm Townlean, but I'll say... If I die tonight... Vector is w.

Yeah, I'm okay with that.

This gets even better, if Lucky flips mafia then Webadict is almost confirmed town.

In this scenario, Lucky probably communicated with his scum buddies and they told him (or he decided) their whole "let's vote Webadict" ploy. Not buying it.

If Lucky flips mafia, it's almost 100% that NQT is their buddy.

[Vector]

Unvote. I need to do a hard rethink.

Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...

[BluarianKnight]

Unvote. I need to do a hard rethink.

Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...

I never said I didn't want to - just that I didn't understand why folks were voting Toaster. I'd like a bit more of a reason before tossing him as scum.

[webadict]

Unvote. I need to do a hard rethink.

Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...

No. I mean, obviously with the caveat that I can always be wrong and future changes, blah blah, but I do think Toaster hard-committed to BK, and I don't think it's a bus. If it's somehow BK/Toaster as w/w, then I'm going to have to eat my hat, but it'll be after I get elimmed for protecting the other one.

Look at Toaster's argument for BK and tell me that's a w/w bus.

Unvote. I need to do a hard rethink.

Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...

I never said I didn't want to - just that I didn't understand why folks were voting Toaster. I'd like a bit more of a reason before tossing him as scum.

Basically, I respect Toaster's play too much to see them poking at Jim, and going after TricMagic as well is always scummy in my book.

[webadict]

Sorry, link HERE for Toaster's argument for BK.

[webadict]

Like, if you want to claim TricMagic/Toaster w/w, that's definitely a viable pairing, but no way Toaster would drop TricMagic for BK if they're w/w.

[Vector]

No. I mean, obviously with the caveat that I can always be wrong and future changes, blah blah, but I do think Toaster hard-committed to BK, and I don't think it's a bus. If it's somehow BK/Toaster as w/w, then I'm going to have to eat my hat, but it'll be after I get elimmed for protecting the other one.

Look at Toaster's argument for BK and tell me that's a w/w bus.

OK, right. I got cross-threaded as to who was doing what.

Yeah, I guess I agree with you. I'm struggling to read either of them as v but that case from Toaster on BK hit my scumdar hard. It reminded me of times when I played as scum and was working like hell to kick up evidence. BK's readslist wasn't great and I don't like the "I'll unvote and FoS and wait for the wagon " thing that's happening right now, but that could easily just be noob material. It's hard for me to imagine BK/Toaster w/v with BK refusing to hit that tunnel just now, too.

Back to Toaster. Yep. Feeling pretty good about this one.