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[IcyTea31]

Eww, do you have to shoehorn I WANT TOWN TO WIN into it? Because I'm town, and reassuring everyone that you're town all the time isn't very towny. Ps, am town.

I wish to make clear my motivations. To me, a role is a tool that will help me win the game. Nothing more, nothing less. Why do you like your role, if not because it'll help you win?

SLOWER? I'm posting already less than 4hrs after day started lol. Please don't expect anything useful until it's actually night here, I am busy in the morning and afternoon. The MMIRLRPG thing.

Going by amount of content, not by the hour. In both Skynet's Seduction and Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2, your opening post was broader than a binary answer to an RVS question and one of your own to a single player. You were town in both of those games, and thus motivated to get the momentum up as fast as possible. What's changed?

[Caz]

I wish to make clear my motivations. To me, a role is a tool that will help me win the game. Nothing more, nothing less. Why do you like your role, if not because it'll help you win?

Why is appearing town so important to you? How does it help you find scum?

I ended up with a fun action. It's custom roles we all made, don't you find that more interesting than just 'cop, doctor, vanilla townie x34'

Going by amount of content, not by the hour. In both Skynet's Seduction and Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2, your opening post was broader than a binary answer to an RVS question and one of your own to a single player. You were town in both of those games, and thus motivated to get the momentum up as fast as possible. What's changed?

Bringing up previous games? REALLY? Also, I already answered this. So far to me you look like you are 1. trying far too hard in the appearance department and 2. trying to build a case out of literal nothing with re-asking questions that have an answer. Congrats on being the first player to look scummy to me this game. (your award is in the mail, please allow 14-21 working days for delivery)

[TricMagic]

You guys get started early huh. We could just lynch both of you and be done with it.

[Secretdorf]

Secretdorf: Given your question to FoU, do believe that both scum will always be on any wagon leading to a hammer?

Unless they have two kills or some other circumstances that favor it, I doubt that they'll risk it. But perhaps they will. But they won't.

Icytea, lynch someone. We've had a night, so some info should be in the light.

Who do we lynch? You have any info? Why are you saying that to ICT specifically?

You guys get started early huh. We could just lynch both of you and be done with it.

And what if none of them is mafia?

[IcyTea31]

Why is appearing town so important to you? How does it help you find scum?

By helping you find scum. Would you have preferred if I'd only answered "yes" to your question of whether or not I like my role?

It's custom roles we all made, don't you find that more interesting than just 'cop, doctor, vanilla townie x34'

There's novelty, yes, but a novel tool is still a tool.

Also, I already answered this.

Not entirely. In those past games, you didn't post until you had the time to make a proper post, but in this one, you made a low-effort post while busy with real life. In other words, making an opening post, regardless of quality, was an urgent matter. This led me to believe you wanted to later look like you were more active this Day than you actually were, but based on how you've responded it now doesn't look like that's the case. That's why I asked again in different words, because the first answer neither fit my earlier thoughts nor was complete enough to satisfy me. So, really, why was it urgent to make your opening post early despite being too busy to make it into a good post?

So far to me you look like you are 1. trying far too hard in the appearance department

What's the correct amount of effort, then, if simply being honest about one's motivations is too much?

2. trying to build a case out of literal nothing with re-asking questions that have an answer.

Bold of you to say that what I have on you already looks like a case, but building a case out of nothing is how D1 works, in the absence of mechanical evidence from N0. It's how one gets out of RVS. On what basis were you planning to build your case this Day?

You guys get started early huh. We could just lynch both of you and be done with it.

What do you expect to receive from that? Remember, in 5-2 town can only afford one mislynch under standard circumstances (which these aren't, I'll admit).

Secretdorf: Given your question to FoU, do believe that both scum will always be on any wagon leading to a hammer?

Unless they have two kills or some other circumstances that favor it, I doubt that they'll risk it. But perhaps they will. But they won't.

How do two mafia give themselves up by hammering, if doing that doesn't automatically make them scum in your eyes?

[notquitethere]

OK just about waking up with this game.

IcyTea, you a fruit vendor equivalent?

Whoever blocked me last night, if you're town don't claim it otherwise you'd be a good night target. If you're scum, please tell me.

Fallacy

notquitethere: What will you do after a daykill happens and the target flip is obscured completely?

Cry.

Actually, pending any other info, just assume it was town that was killed and work on that basis. That's correct innit?

NQT perhaps.

Thanks.

NQT: What's the difference between your play when you're mafia vs when you're town?

When I'm town I actually care about lynching scum. When I'm mafia I deliberately play below my level and make unforced mistakes.

Oh and I'm more aggressive as town. Either way, I always take a little while to get a handle on the thread and warm up.

Toaster & notquitethere: Assume you're scum together, and the game isn't going well for the mafia wincon. Your secondary wincon is easier to reach, but requires you to betray your buddy to the town. If you don't do so, you still have a lesser chance to win as a team, as long as your buddy doesn't betray you either. If you both betray the other, you will both likely lose. How will you resolve this dilemma? Give your answer in a spoiler, and don't look at the other player's answer before you've answered yourself.

Holy prison dilemma batman!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I tend to go the high trust route in these sort of dilemmas. I'd probably work with my scum buddy to pursue our joint wincon to the end.

This is a fun question but I don't get your angle here.


Toaster you better not be thinking of betraying me, buddy.



More later.

Caz, is this going to be a night or day game?

[IcyTea31]

IcyTea, you a fruit vendor equivalent?

Yes, of sorts. I expected you to be subtler about it until confirming my action became relevant, but no matter.

Holy prison dilemma batman!

This is a fun question but I don't get your angle here.

For your part, as you're a highly analytical player, I want to know what you think of the highly non-standard team dynamic in this game. Would you agree that when each player of each team is capable of both individual and team victory, the scumteam requires a higher level of trust between each other than usual? Similarly, how high do you consider the risk that a core town player suddenly turns third-party and decides to join the mafia?

[notquitethere]

IcyTea, you a fruit vendor equivalent?

Yes, of sorts. I expected you to be subtler about it until confirming my action became relevant, but no matter.

Eh maybe I should have been. But the whole point of the power is that it clears you of doing the night kill, so it makes sense to declare that sooner rather than later?

For your part, as you're a highly analytical player, I want to know what you think of the highly non-standard team dynamic in this game. 1. Would you agree that when each player of each team is capable of both individual and team victory, the scumteam requires a higher level of trust between each other than usual? 2. Similarly, how high do you consider the risk that a core town player suddenly turns third-party and decides to join the mafia?

1. Yes probably, though I think a lot of the wincons will be more difficult to achieve as the default wincon. 2. Very likely possibility, which is probably why we shouldn't share wincons. Otherwise soon-to-be-lynched mafia might try to strike up a deal if they know the details behind a town player's secondary wincon.

[IcyTea31]

Eh maybe I should have been. But the whole point of the power is that it clears you of doing the night kill, so it makes sense to declare that sooner rather than later?

Makes sense, though it's mod-confirmed that nobody attempted a kill N0. I was planning to use it to prove my action on D2 and to use the N0 action as an established pattern.

Yes probably, though I think a lot of the wincons will be more difficult to achieve as the default wincon.

I don't entirely agree, based on what I saw during setup. But that's something I can't give specifics on due to the rules. Is your thought from similar observations, or just intuition?

Very likely possibility, which is probably why we shouldn't share wincons. Otherwise soon-to-be-lynched mafia might try to strike up a deal if they know the details behind a town player's secondary wincon.

I agree, but the problem is that we only have one mislynch and can't afford to lynch a rogue townie, unless a mafioso also goes rogue, which makes this whole setup a headache-inducing prisoner's dilemma for me. A point in favour of sharing wincons is that it proves one's alignment to the wincon's creator, though.

[Toaster]

Fallacy:

Everyone else: No questions for you yet.

Then you get no answers, SIR.

IcyTea:

Toaster & notquitethere: Assume you're scum together, and the game isn't going well for the mafia wincon. Your secondary wincon is easier to reach, but requires you to betray your buddy to the town. If you don't do so, you still have a lesser chance to win as a team, as long as your buddy doesn't betray you either. If you both betray the other, you will both likely lose. How will you resolve this dilemma? Give your answer in a spoiler, and don't look at the other player's answer before you've answered yourself.

Ah, the ol' Prisoner's Dilemma.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I suspect we would have seen the possibility ahead of time and hashed out what to do, but I'd lean toward the team win.

Are you a mason again, bent on destroying me?



TricMagic:

You guys get started early huh. We could just lynch both of you and be done with it.

Yes, yes, set up those chain mislynches, scum.

[Toaster]

Now I can respond to NQT:

Toaster & notquitethere: Assume you're scum together, and the game isn't going well for the mafia wincon. Your secondary wincon is easier to reach, but requires you to betray your buddy to the town. If you don't do so, you still have a lesser chance to win as a team, as long as your buddy doesn't betray you either. If you both betray the other, you will both likely lose. How will you resolve this dilemma? Give your answer in a spoiler, and don't look at the other player's answer before you've answered yourself.

Holy prison dilemma batman!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I tend to go the high trust route in these sort of dilemmas. I'd probably work with my scum buddy to pursue our joint wincon to the end.

This is a fun question but I don't get your angle here.


Toaster you better not be thinking of betraying me, buddy.

Oh good, looks like we won't be betraying each other.  Ride or die!

[IcyTea31]

Are you a mason again, bent on destroying me?

Not a mason, but I'll gladly destroy you if I need to. Do I need to?

For your part of the dilemma: you say you'd hash out a solution with your buddy ahead of the time. How would you create that plan in the town version, where you can't discuss it privately and don't know who your buddies are?

[TricMagic]

RVS hasn't gotten off the ground so.. NQT, don't think I don't see you fishing. Or was that Icytea?

[Toaster]

IcyTea:

Are you a mason again, bent on destroying me?

Not a mason, but I'll gladly destroy you if I need to. Do I need to?

For your part of the dilemma: you say you'd hash out a solution with your buddy ahead of the time. How would you create that plan in the town version, where you can't discuss it privately and don't know who your buddies are?

I mean... it's not really the same question.   Town by definition doesn't know their own "teammates."   There's no plan to make in that case.  If I thought the town was doomed, I'd be willing to snag my own wincon because there is no known safe communication.


TricMagic:

RVS hasn't gotten off the ground so.. NQT, don't think I don't see you fishing. Or was that Icytea?

Sure it has; we know scum (you).  See, you've already forgotten your fake targets.

[IcyTea31]

I mean... it's not really the same question.   Town by definition doesn't know their own "teammates."   There's no plan to make in that case.  If I thought the town was doomed, I'd be willing to snag my own wincon because there is no known safe communication.

At least you're honest.