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[Luckyowl]

Also, LuckyOwl said this:

I protected Heydude6. My protection only protects those who have the same alignment as me. When I protected Jim "nothing happened" but when I protected Heydude6 something actually happened. Also my night ability was stolen. So that's neat.

I don't think we have evidence that LuckyOwl was redirected. It seem strange that anyone, scum or town, would claim a cop result on an SK as town. I think the best play for both alignments would be to either scream "SK!" or keep silent.

I mean, LuckyOwl then said this:

Okay. Heydude6 is scum.

Heydude6 he just shot me and reduced my health to 1 hp.

So, you know, your guess is as good as mine there. Also, weird if there's a protect-rolecop ability out there. Weird. Stuff like this makes me suspect otherwise.


LuckyOwl: so considering the quotes above, do you think heydude is the same alignment as you, or scum? (Or both?)
If you think he's scum, any ideas on what happened during the night to make your protect go through?

I think he might be town, or a 1000 IQ mafia at this point. I obviously felt like he was scum for dropping my HP to 1 and killed Vector. But reading his reason for doing so. Makes him look a bit townie.

why my action went through for heydude6 and not Jim Groovster? I'm not really sure. But take it with a grain of salt. As I'm not 100 percent sure it can read alignment. It just protects those who have the same alignment as me.

[Luckyowl]

I activate hold-out blaster.

This is odd...why would you pull your hold out blaster for? wouldn't it be best to let your scum team build a case on you without performing this? Now it makes me suspicious of Heydude6 and TricMagic.

[Nirur Torir]

Less WIFOM filled, thank you.

"YOU CAN'T POINT TO ME BEING THE ONLY KILLER, THAT'S RIDICULOUS."

That's another strawman. I made my argument in my mega post and I'll gladly bring up the relevant excerpt again.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those who say that I was the sole person attempting mafia nightkills are insane because why would the mafia cut their killing power in half? What gambit reward is worth doing that for?

Before we continue that train of thought, let's briefly entertain the idea that I acted alongside my buddies during day 1 and acted alone during day 2 for the sake of a gambit. If I did that, then I am increasing the chances of there being no kills that night since if something happens to me such as a block, protect, or a redirect, then there is no backup kill. Scum risk losing their most reliable ability for a gimmicky mindgame at a point where they succesfully busted the two masons alongside the modkilling on one of their most active townies (ie. Dolores).

Until now, you've been ignoring me bringing up the possibilities that your kills either replace the standard kill, or your buddies have been blocked each night, and keep insisting that it could only be from a gambit with you acting and ignoring the standard kill.

I can't be bothered to read the entire wall, when what I do read is enough wine to get me drunk.

So you're admitting to not doing your best to help the town? During LYLO? Maybe you haven't realized this yet, but if you lynch the wrong guy we lose! Scum have a strong advantage here and will use every trick they can to make you lynch a townie! And you can't be even be bothered to fully read a post?! If I wasn't already convinced you were scum I'd be screaming at you in all caps!

The worst case scenario is that you overlook a good point being made by a townie and get him lynched. Another thing that happens is that it makes you look bad, which could get you lynched and also cost the town a victory if you're town.

This kind of half-assed posting is a blatant scum tell, and do you know which scum you remind me of Nirur? You remind me of Jim.

You're scum, so I don't need to spend the time and energy twisting my mind trying to follow logic with missing foundations.
The worst case isn't overlooking a good point made by a townie. The worst case is getting taken up by letting scum convince me with pretty logic, while ignoring a basic point that undercuts their arguments.

But that isn't true. It's an actual case against Leafsnail that he chooses to ignore, and what do you know? Leafsnail pulls out a holdout pistol once the main argument for lynching me collapses and the Town starts to turn against him. How can you not see this as an attempt by !ScumNirur Torir to defend his buddy?

It is true. It is WIFOM. "If we were scum we would have done this" is almost always WIFOM, and there's no need to put it into an attack against Leafsnail of all people. I suppose it wasn't exactly flipfloppy away from NJW, however.

Leafsnail of all people....

Leafsnail of all people.

Leafsnail is all but confirmed scum!

Yes.
Thus, there's no need to use confusing logic to vote for him, and doing so is suspicious.

Regardless though, you have to explain why I used the fast-hatter badge to give Excalibur to Trick rather to than to guarantee another night-kill and secure victory for my team? Can you imagine if !scumme got us a nightkill and the Vector kill? Town would be screwed!

I actually got mixed around there and thought you'd tried to give it to NJW and got hit with a redirect.
I'm going to need to rethink this.

What I am attacking is your idea that !townyou would have placed a vote and risked a quickhammer without considering the feelings of the rest of the town.

But I didn't. Please explain your problem with me putting a vote on you that didn't put you in quickhammer range.

[heydude6]

Well that is news to me. I didn’t know there were abilities that could replace the standard mafia-kill, though I knew the mafia kill takes up a night action.

Did Jim have any mafia-kill abilities? Would they have been revealed in his flip?

Example Mafiakill abilities are listed in the OP, and any Mafiakill abilities a player might have would show up with the Mafiakill tag. Jim Groovester did not reveal any Mafiakill abilities.

Spoiler: An example I dug up (click to show/hide)

Space-Time Discontinuum
Something funny is going on here. And you’re not in the mood for funny business. That’s because you don’t make mistakes. You fix them.
(Auto) Fourth Dimensional: You cannot unvote. Your vote can be placed in the past or future. When you vote, you may specify what Day your vote goes to.
{P7} (Mafiakill) Fix [target]: Reveal your role and actions. Kill the target. All past, present, and future votes made by or used on the target are removed. Lynches are recalculated based on these new vote counts.

Ah, I see what you mean. I assume that if a (Mafiakill) ability would be discovered with an ability inspect, that tag would be hidden, right?


Unrelated question, how many votes are required to shorten?

Also, I just noticed that we're running out of time. Let me rush something out real quick.


Ninjaed.

I activate hold-out blaster.

This is odd...why would you pull your hold out blaster for? wouldn't it be best to let your scum team build a case on you without performing this? Now it makes me suspicious of Heydude6 and TricMagic.

Feel free to doubt me, I don't know how much longer I'm going to last anyway, but if TrickMagic was scum, he would have finished you off an ended the game.

[NJW2000]

Yeah, looking at some of the stuff in the OP again does cast heydude's kill in a worrying light.

Hm... mafia!heydude has scumbuddies, so probably would have been advised against a blase reveal of something that now looks a lot more like a mafiakill. Or is this WIFOM? Damn. I suppose he probably wouldn't have asked questions about it were he scum. All very confusing.

I’ll get to you too NJW.

Fair enough. Going to have to be in the next hour, though really.



These considerations would be a lot more important than WoT exchanges with FoU that people may or may not actually read.

Are you planning to nightkill? If Leafsnail is mafia, I think it might be better if you didn't. If he's town... I suppose you'd better. If he's town, we've lost anyway, I guess.
I suppose the presence of redirects (FoU) mean it might be better not to answer this.


@LuckyOwl:

why my action went through for heydude6 and not Jim Groovster? I'm not really sure. But take it with a grain of salt. As I'm not 100 percent sure it can read alignment. It just protects those who have the same alignment as me.

Fair enough.

[TricMagic]

I activate hold-out blaster.

This is odd...why would you pull your hold out blaster for? wouldn't it be best to let your scum team build a case on you without performing this? Now it makes me suspicious of Heydude6 and TricMagic.

To be fair, I'd like you dead given you've been missing for a while. And I completely shattered the build up of the fakecalibur case, which he then decided to not bother with. The Hold-Out Blaster is just one last hurrah.

Heydude, remove that vote already. I do not trust you with a Holdout Blaster. If someone breaks the vote open we have our scumteam.

[TricMagic]

I'd have Luckyowl remove their vote too. Too easy to close the case with it against us at the last second.

[heydude6]

Heydude, remove that vote already. I do not trust you with a Holdout Blaster. If someone breaks the vote open we have our scumteam.

Read this:

Aight, point one. It's four votes to hammer. But...

Point two. If the Day ends without a hammer, the player with the most votes on them is lynched.

So if we can all agree to not vote, and just let Tric vote Leafsnail, then Leafsnail gets lynched and the magnet saves Tric. If you read Jim Groovester's role flip, you can see the exact mechanics of the Hold-Out Blaster - it targets a random player who voted the user. If only Tric votes Leafsnail, then it's guaranteed to hit him, but if more of us vote Leafsnail and/or he's hammered, there's a chance it's not Tric who gets shot. And only Tric has the Item Magnet Badge so far, right?

This works... unless scum simply vote someone else.

Which is a bit of a problem, if they vote Tricmagic: suddenly no Excalibur for Town, no protection... our winning probability becomes far lower. Of course, they can't do that if Leafsnail's scum, which looks quite likely given the no-explanation holdout blaster.

With only 2 votes on someone, scum can easily place 3 votes on someone else and spam shorten, performing a different form of hammer. That would leave the vote tied during day 2 which will make lynching scum impossible without any other special abilities, even if we know who they are.

Since you removed your own shorten, I feel a bit more comfortable Unvote -ing, but I want you to understand that your plan was dangerously flawed.

[Luckyowl]

I'd have Luckyowl remove their vote too. Too easy to close the case with it against us at the last second.

I'll remove my vote. unvote

[heydude6]

These considerations would be a lot more important than WoT exchanges with FoU that people may or may not actually read.

Are you planning to nightkill? If Leafsnail is mafia, I think it might be better if you didn't. If he's town... I suppose you'd better. If he's town, we've lost anyway, I guess.
I suppose the presence of redirects (FoU) mean it might be better not to answer this.

I'm not this time. I gave away Excalibur and spent the rest of my guns on Vector and Luckyowl. All I have left is a single bullet in a dart gun which I'm not using since the shot can be redirected to finish off Luckyowl.

I'll only be able to restock in the next day.

[TricMagic]

By nature, anyone else placing a vote is scum. Which kinda gives the game away. I'll keep a close eye on these last posts.

[heydude6]

With only 2 votes on someone, scum can easily place 3 votes on someone else and spam shorten, performing a different form of hammer. That would leave the vote tied during day 2 which will make lynching scum impossible without any other special abilities, even if we know who they are.

Since you removed your own shorten, I feel a bit more comfortable Unvote -ing, but I want you to understand that your plan was dangerously flawed.

Noticed a flaw in my flaw. Leafsnail can't vote. Scum can only tie the lynch resulting in a no-lynch. We'll know for sure who scum are in the next day in that case.

[NJW2000]

Jim is the source of blasters, Leafsnail made no mention of giving holdout blasters away, ergo Leafsnail probably scum.
The holdout blaster is the thing that made me feel safe about lynching them. Like a comfort blanket that kills people.
(This in response to speculations about Leafsnail. I am a bit worried about his request "to scum" not to slow the game down - he genuinely seems to be in "doesn't give a shit" mode, too much to write deceptively. Nonetheless, blaster.)

I'd have Luckyowl remove their vote too. Too easy to close the case with it against us at the last second.

Eh... Death Defiance should put paid to that. Not sure why Heydude should remove the vote if you're concerned aboug someone closing the case... even assuming scum!Leafsnail (likely) two scum votes could pull out the same tie that they could get from voting with town!Luckyowl. Ditto for town!Leafsnail, except change "tie" for "lynch".

PPE: heydude said some of this. Not so sure about heydude removing the vote though... scum could still tie. Eh, that's a minor risk, all things considered.


Webadict: is the day-end locked, or could players do something functionallly identical to a hammer by shortening?

[webadict]

Webadict: is the day-end locked, or could players do something functionallly identical to a hammer by shortening?

...

Just so I don't have to twiddle my thumbs, you do realize that you CAN Shorten.

Just... to save us all from boredom. Like, please.

[heydude6]

PPE: heydude said some of this. Not so sure about heydude removing the vote though... scum could still tie. Eh, that's a minor risk, all things considered.

If they Tie, they out themselves and if we can prevent a nightkill like we have been consistently doing, then the game will be over for them. In a way, having them tie the lynch could be considered the preferable outcome for Town.