I guess I kept everyone waiting long enough. Let's get started then.
The simple argument for Trick and I being townAs you guys just saw today, my role has a lot of power. If I was scum, then my team would have already won. I would have given Excalibur to a scum buddy and they would have finished off Luckyowl and won us the game.
The above statement isn't a wall-of-text argument, so if you want to dispute it, please do it properly instead of dismissing it with a stock phrase.
AppendixDay 3 is not the only reason evidence for my Towniness. Since day 1, I've had people who would eventually flip as town, look at my content and conclude that I gave off strong town tells. Suspicions only really started to mount against me when I hammered Toaster (a genuine mistake that was first Vector's idea, another townie), and they intensified when people thought I was lying about using a fast hatter badge (I blame Web for that one).
Killing Vector was also a genuine mistake that I made in a hasty panic that I deeply regret, but I would also like to note how aggressively so many people dog-piled me. More importantly though, I had no one take my side except Trick at the very end when he finally revealed Excalibur. He sure had me fooled at the beginning.
Now the reason why this is important goes back to the first statement I made at the beginning of this game.
In a game of mafia where the town is doing badly, who is more likely to know what's going on and lead the town to victory:
The group of 4 people?
or
The group of 2 people?
If it's not clear already, the answer for our game is the group of 2 people, and it usually is the group of 2 people. A game where the town does badly is a game that leaves several mafia members alive who know what's going on while the town runs around like headless chickens.
When the town is like this, they're easier to manipulate and any attempts to organize into a more town-centric agenda
need to be disrupted by the scum.
You might see them push questionable lynches, they may brush aside a good argument against a fellow scum buddy. They make isolated town members question each other's ideas, leaving only the scum's narrative as the one anyone can agree on.
There were no attempts to disrupt the "town-centric" narrative against me, and my arguments against Leafsnail were ridiculed, but not refuted.
Trickmagic and I were the group of 2, and
FallacyofUrist,
Leafsnail,
Nirur Torir, and a bit of
NJW2000 were the group of 4. I am confident that 3 out of 4 members are scum, and if you are the town in this group, then you shouldn't trust anything the others have to say.
As for what I have to say about
Trickmagic, besides the fact that he didn't end the game when he had the power to, there is still the argument I made in my mega-post. If you want to claim he's scum, please look at the points I made in that.
So now I want to share my opinion on every player again.
TrickMagic and
Heydude6: Besides the fact that I know I'm town, I also already made the arguments for why you should see us as town as well. I won't repeat them
Nirur Torir: The person I want to lynch tomorrow. Has been seen as scummy since day 2 (read the section on him in my mega-post) and has done little to redeem himself. Was mostly fine in day 3, though like I said last time, it could have just been his team mates telling him to lay low. There was one post I found suspicious.
spoiler=roleclaim
My main ability is an ability trade.
I can keep a copy of auto abilities.
I can make an action unaffected by other abilities at night.
I can double my action to a second target if someone tries to tamper with it.
I have two leave comments. Only two, as someone hasn't resolved their trading party. Since it seems to resolve the day after, that might be why my N1 action failed.
I somehow gained two Vector abilities. I think they're parts to a bomb, but the payload is a mystery that might be pro or anti town. Both are 1-shot night actions.
One activates all WINDOW effects, which Vector can use as a free action.
The second turns the user into a butterfly, which is immune to abilities but strips the user of all abilities and items. Vector can use it at day or night.
/spoiler
I'm a little wary of Leafsnail being our first scum lynch, since the case on them is that they're disengaged from the game (the same as Leafscum!), and because Vector's guiding towards it, after yelling at us to stop being sheep letting them to all the work and shepherding.
I'm getting tempted by Heydude6+FoU. Heydude being scum after D1 is weird, but being the only killer is compelling. I didn't like FoU's D1 play and their investigate saying "the killer is the source of guns!" is weak. Combined, they had an interesting night that led to a strong role dying while clearing both for the action reveals.
I think either they're on a team and Tric is town, or they're both town and Tric is scum.
Leafsnail leans scummier than Vector or NJW, largely because he's the most lurky and won't claim, but they all feel similarly disengaged with the game to me.
LuckyOwl continues to read as town.
There's more of that sole night-killer nonsense, which I always will see as ridiculous and they also called Tric Scum. Ultimately, it's not much for day 3
The real bad stuff happens during this day though.
I make my big defense post which also comes with a case against Leafsnail. And all Nirur Torir does is quote an excerpt from it and say it's nothing, but WIFOM
You know what. Unvote. I'll be placing my vote on Leafsnail after all. NJW's only sin was excusing Leafsnail's actions, and possibly coordinating his watcher claim with him. He might still be scum, but regardless about how you feel about the alignments of either I or him, Leafsnail looks like scum in either scenario.
If I was scum and Leafsnail was town, my team and I would have quickhammered Leafsnail while Vector and Luckyowl were voting, and then I would have done my daykill tomorrow, securing my scum team a victory.
If I was scum and Leafsnail was also scum, you could interpret my day kill as a poorly thought out attempt to save my buddy's life.
If I am town and NJW is scum, then him and Leafsnail are a likely scum team who coordinated NJW's watcher claim. Plus it would explain the way he excused leafsnail's scummy behaviour.
If NJW and I are both town, then the only possible scum teams would be the following (since we're pretty sure Tric is town)
Fallacy, LuckyOwl, Nirur Torir
Fallacy, Nirur Torir, Leafsnail
Fallacy, Leafsnail, Luckyowl.
Luckyowl, Nirur Torir, Leafsnail
You're very flipfloppy, and defend pulling away from NJW with even more WIFOM.
But that isn't true. It's an actual case against Leafsnail that he chooses to ignore, and what do you know? Leafsnail pulls out a holdout pistol once the main argument for lynching me collapses and the Town starts to turn against him. How can you not see this as an attempt by !ScumNirur Torir to defend his buddy?
In my response to him, I call this out and then point out how the argument about me faking Excalibur is it's own WIFOM, which is another way of stating the first paragraph of my big defense.
@Fallacy and NJW
Every !scumcase that anyone has ever made against me hinges on the fact that I am attempting some brazen and blatant gambit. Every other possible scum suspect plays somewhat sensibly if they're scum, but for me to be scum, I have to do some really whacky shit! Also according to Fallacy, it means that I would need to have a very strange auto. If I had an auto like that which prevented me from killing, then my role would be pointless in the first place since I would be sacrificing the standard mafia-kill for a shitter mafia-kill that leaves an obvious calling card.
Lying about Excalibur would be another example of Wacky shit!
All my actions so far can easily explained by me being town and making a few mistakes, while to justify me being scum, you have to go through all of these strange hoops.
And rather than acknowledge that the main argument against me is shit, or give reasons for why it isn't shit, he just says that he's applying pressure.
The argument that I’m faking Excalibur is a WIFOM, yet you eagerly believe it, while dismissing my own points as WIFOM.
If I eagerly believed it I'd be voting you, instead of just applying pressure.
We're in a LYLO situation where quickhammers are possible. Am I seriously supposed to believe you'd place a second vote on me without waiting for a town consensus? Even scum would try to pretend to be town in this situation. I think you would know that.
As for your pressure, it looks quite similar to dogpiling to me. Even a scum who is trying to push a lynch on a towney can be said to apply pressure to them. I see this response as nothing more than a way to brush aside concerns that the argument you're supporting is flawed.
NJW2000: Since I'm convinced Leafsnail and Nirur are scum, my third scum pick is either you or Fallacy.
As a player, I consider you one of the most sensible people here. You didn't buy into the fake Excalibur nonsense (though you did argue a policy lynch against me, while simultaneously saying I looked town), you didn't buy into the nonsense arguments that were used against me in day 3, you rightfully pointed out how Fallacy has a good chance of being scum in this situation, and you used reason when you accepted my claim that I suffered from a moderator error (and then rightfully pointed out how this doesn't necessarily clear me). You've kept your head level and didn't let yourself be swayed by scum's bad arguments. Though I guess at least one Scum should protect themselves from the fallout of my Town flip.
The biggest reason to find you scummy is your association with Leafsnail. You have frequently advocated against lynching him, usually using the argument that other people are scummier, while additionally citing some of his posts that you believe come across as more town. I looked through those posts, and I find no problem with them, but he was also the person pushing some of the most ridiculous elements of the Day 3 Lynch on me. He was the originator of the sole-nightkiller conspiracy theory for example. You spent your time that day brigading Vector, which I can't fault you for since I was suspicious of them too, but Vector claimed you were intellectually dishonest, which you eventually apologized for and excused as a result of you being tired.
Vector: Earlier on, you thought heydude and I were confirmed scum by LuckyOwl. You can't lie about this. You voted Leafsnail with LuckyOwl instead. You can't lie about this.
Wait a sec, this is false. I voted heydude with LuckyOwl, not Leafsnail. When it became clear that LuckyOwl wasn't claiming cop, I voted Leafsnail. Here are the posts:
I think I got two confirm mafia. NJW and Heydude6.
--
So inspect the possibility of NJW, Heydude6, and TricMagic to be the remaining scum team. More likely Leafsnail is third party.
So I won't vote for leafsnail and will place my vote on Heydude6.
LO, I'm willing to trust your inspect results. If you're scum then I will say "good game, you deserved to win," with pride. Heydude6.
Actually, how would people be with a LuckyOwl or FoU lynch? While the Toaster stuff did demonstrate that mechanical clears aren't necessarily the be all and end all, I'm a bit taken aback by the sudden accumulation of votes.
We are a small handful of hours from the end of the day. Obviously people had better be voted now.
No, I do not want to lynch our THIRD claimed cop. I want to lynch one of the two people who have peeked red, as suggested by LO, the player who up until their claimed inspect result was practically seen as a confirmed townie.
As far as I could understand, when LuckyOwl said:
I think I got two confirm mafia. NJW and Heydude6.
NJW: When you replied to my plan. You grumbled, and dismissed it as a newbie plan and it may be. Yes. But if you were town you would've guide me to a better thought process.
Heydude6: The same as NJW. You try make me look foolish instead of tackling what I say. Plus. I don't like your logic.
He was going on thread analysis, apparently. Doesn't look like a copclaim.
ugh jesus fuck unvote
I thought that the reads below that were in-thread supporting evidence for a daycop ability. I'm gonna go take a nap.
No, wait. Don't want to oversleep. Leafsnail.
There was a bit of back and forth that I omit for levity's sake and then you acknowledge your mistake.
Yeah, no, my bad, I was confused by the post at the top, thought some were from today.
Ok, fine, we've both made some pretty big errors reading the thread in the heat of the moment. I respect the decision not to engage with me after that, I guess, one can have less leniency at the end of the day.
This is all a pity, really. I don't have the strongest gutread on you - I'd rather lynch FoU.
Vector also did some silly things while sleep-deprived so I still don't know what to make of this. Which you mention in one of your first posts this day.
A final thing I noticed is that you and Leafsnail could have worked together to coordinate the watcher claim, by piggy-backing off of the information 4maskwolf has already revealed. These are the kinds of subtle scum plays that scum actually use, rather than the inane shit people accuse me of doing. Still, Fallacy has been digging himself quite a hole today which means you're not my biggest suspect.
Luckyowl: If you can't tell, I'm mostly thinking in terms of scum teams right now which I think has been working out well at this point in the game. I used to see Luckyowl as part of team with Vecotr, but since Vector is town, that train of thought has collapsed. Luckyowl does say some inane shit but when he does so, there usually aren't people backing him up and saying "Yes LuckyOwl! That person is scum! Here are my arguments against them as well" like I have seen from certain
other people. Plus, he claimed to be a cop who alignment confirmed me at the beginning of the game before I killed anyone, which is not something I expect scum to do. Could still happen, but arguing for that to be the case would be WIFOM. Especially when there are more suspicious candidates around.
Fallacy of Urist: You've done a lot of things to end up on my shitlist. Since this post has taken long enough already, I'll lay it all out later.
Webadict, buy me an
item Magnet badge. I'll vote
Leafsnail so scum don't suddenly take control of the lynch.
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Topic: BYOR 15: Game Over - Mafia Win (Kinda?) (Read 111183 times)