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[jecowa]

We are having an internal discussion about setting up the spritesheets. What would you guys prefer for creatures?

A. All adults in one file; all children in another file; all undeads in another file; etc.
B. All creature_domestic animals in one files; all creature_ocean in one file; all creature_subterranean in one file, etc.

My first thought was definitely "B", since "A" would make a massive tilesheet, but with a single 1024x1024 image, you could hold all 805 creatures and still have 219 spaces to spare.

How would you handle trained animal sprites? And what about races with profession sprites?

If each creature has its own tilesheet, it would make it easier for users to mix and match the ones they like. Someone could make an alternate dog breed mod that just requires dragging over a modified dog.png.

[FantasticDorf]

I think pesonally the structuring should be seperate *like your latter example, because anybody looking to make additions (like a generic 'more hairstyles' mod) will likely need that palette information if not making from scratch broadly, like the very important task of giving elves mullets and embarrassing bald patches.

I would be suprised that you wouldn't have any qualms yourself Meph about having all the conveniently layered out for Masterwork, I dont know how exactly steam will represent the DF graphics folder (or wherever to constitute being used for steam-workshop to add to/alter) but they might sub-divide the lists anyway however they feel fit no matter how it might be presented.

• List of newly sprited stuff here and there, splitting up cavern creatures by level over-here etc. etc. Stuff they already do for RAWS, so a definite B for baseline.

[Mike Mayday]

Patrick, I've already agreed that it doesn't make sense to have a separate image for every variation.
For me the choice to separate the gfx files is:

A) in the same way as DF's original raws (next_underground, large_riverlake) etc.
B) in a way that allows to immediately tell where a creature will be (base, -man, giant)

BTW, regardless of choice, the files will also be split into different sprite sizes by necessity.

[Wokko]

A. Why do you want to open ten files when you draw a single cow?
B. This, as I understand it, is what most tilesets already have. Not bad, except for birds and creature_standard. My choice.
C. All creature_domestic animals in one folder, for each creature one file with all variations of castes, dead, children and hunter/war and other types.

C sounds like the best solution.

[Meph]

Depends what you want to do. Lets say "I don't like the magenta hue on undeads, I want them to be green". That's an easy color hue change, takes a few seconds in Photoshop per file.

Option A: You have to alter 1 file.
Option B: You have to alter 33 files.
Option C: You have to alter 819 files.

[jecowa]

Are we talking just for the layout of the official graphics pack, or will this also affect 3rd-party graphics packs? I like that currently a graphics pack can do something like reuse 1 sprite for all whales without needing to include duplicate versions of that whale sprite for each type of whale.

[Meph]

This is only for the steam release. The graphics files with manually assigned positions should remain as is for creatures; with a few possible additions. So if you want to put everything in one large file, or move stuff around, or add new files with your modded content, that's all fine.

Mh, technically tilesets can keep their setup as is in that regard, it only gets a bit difficult once they add to the Steam set (duplicate creature entries everywhere ^^)

[CLA]

I think B is easiert to maintain, spot errors or missing sprites, and add/edit content.
As for Meph's example (modifying a general characteristic on all undead), that issue can be alleviated with an appropriate setup in the photoshop source files. For his example, you could set up a partially masked adjustment layer that gives the undead sprites its hue and when you want to change it, you batch process all files with the custom action "open, move hue of layer XY +100, save, close". The point being that with the proper setup and automation the number of files is irrelevant for the workload.
 Of course not every action can be solved that easily, but more complex things need manual intervention anyway, and opening multiple files isn't exactly a difficult or tedious process.

Conversely, you could also construct examples that make it difficult to process the creatures with the other option. Say, you want to edit all 'bird' sprites (undead bird, adult bird, child bird, etc), you have to modify multiple files with option A instead.

[Hans Lemurson]

I think I'm just gonna make the sharks larger, and the great white even larger than planned.
X-posting from discord: For DF "deluxe" we're facing a problem of having roughly 1500 undead sprites to create. There's no way for us to handle all of that for the initial release, so I've devised a "placeholder" edit that shouldn't take more than a few seconds for each sprite. I'm curious about your reaction:

I think those undead placeholders look awesome!

No confusion as to what they are.

[Cruxador]

Depends what you want to do. Lets say "I don't like the magenta hue on undeads, I want them to be green". That's an easy color hue change, takes a few seconds in Photoshop per file.

Option A: You have to alter 1 file.
Option B: You have to alter 33 files.
Option C: You have to alter 819 files.

I think that's a pretty niche case, though. Aside from this placeholder case, I can't think when else someone would want to batch modify all cases of a specific caste or form for all creatures.

[Mike Mayday]

Guys, just to make sure it's clear - the discussion stems from a misunderstanding. Both me and Patrick are for option B.
The question is whether the creatures should be split exactly as in raw/objects or in another way - for example base, man, giant - but there are other possibilites so I'm interested in your input.

[Meph]

If we don't go by raw, I'd say alphabetically by name (not I'd).

[voliol]

B seems like the safe standard option, but I'm curious about what you meant earlier

BTW, regardless of choice, the files will also be split into different sprite sizes by necessity.

Does this mean we will get e.g. "graphics_large_tropical_32x32" for most creatures in "large_tropical", and "graphics_large_tropical_64x64" for the elephant, giraffe and rhino? Or just that the creatures will be sorted somehow within the files by size?

[mko]

Some new stuff, some variations. Lots of cats!

Is there a chance to make butterfly in more alive position?

This standard position is typical for dead ones - see https://emilydamstra.com/news/please-enough-dead-butterflies/

Content warning: "If you hadn’t previously noted the difference between a living and a dead butterfly, I’m afraid you will now begin to see dead butterflies EVERYWHERE, as I do." - like I just did with this tileset.

[Mike Mayday]

Voliol: the former
mko: oops, will look into that!