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[dolores]

Oh shit I forgot
Vote to Extend
We've got less than 24hrs left to the day and Tomasque, Webadict, Failbird, hector, Nirur, FoU, Kitrougard, and roseheart need to post quite a bit more before I'm satisfied with the day, and I can only lynch one of them. IcyTea needs to vote what the shit.
IcyTea
Why aren't you voting for anyone? You're reading two players as slightly scummy and we're very much waiting on content from both of them, why haven't you picked someone to try to lynch?

[Tomasque]

So you're saying you've got multiple players that you feel are more scummy than others?

Yes. webadict and kit. Nirur's error was just something I caught and that I wanted to push him about, to see what his reaction was.

I'm presuming this includes Nirur and Kit. Anybody else? Is Webadict scummy or just shitposting? How do you feel about failbird? How do you feel about FoU?

Webadict looks like he was originally shitposting, and then he voted roseheart because he predicted there'd be growing animosity towards them and he needed to get someone other than him lynched.
As for failbird and Fallacy: The former's behavior shows me that he's either inexperienced scum trying to keep a low profile, or inexperienced town feeling overwhelmed. The latter is a lot less convincing as inexperienced, because he's definitely played mafia before. Both of them are playing really passively, so I can't get a read on them except for the natural inclination that lurking is scummy.

Are you really getting any evidence of intent or purpose from these posts?

Yeah. More likely that not, Kit is trying to get on Nirur's good side.

Does this mean you believe scum is the greatest threat to you, even inexperienced scum such as Kit?

At the time that I was asked that, no one was showing the slightest inclination of wanting to vote me, so the next biggest threat would be getting nightkilled by scum. Since I suspect Kit of being scum, he is that threat.

I'd say parroted votes actually point towards Nirur and Kit not being buddies; Nirur would be smart enough to tell Kit to not follow his votes if that were the case. Does a wuba/Nirur/Kit scumteam really seem as likely to you as it would appear from your post?

Only Wuba and Kit are the two I genuinely suspect, the latter greater than the former. Since Kit's action lead me more to believe that he's trying to make Nirur an ally than that he's his partner, I don't think that there's a scumteam between the three.

webadict: I thought you said you didn't care that you were being voted, and that you weren't even playing seriously, but now that you've recently (from Fallacy and hector) gotten a lot of votes, you've latched onto an early bandwagon (nirur's vote and hector's threat) the moment you saw one ready to form. If you're trying to stop lazy behavior as you say you are, then why haven't you punished it before? All you've done is vote hector once - then done nothing with it - and for all your posturing you haven't criticize a specific person's behavior at all.

1)I could do the all at once post, where I point out the sheer incompetence of saying I haven't pointed out anyone's behavior when I'm voting roseheart for their behavior.
2)I could do the redirect, and ask for citations on almost any sentence you've said.

1) I'm saying that you haven't pointed out anyone's behavior earlier than when you voted roseheart. If you were against lazy play all along, you would have done something about failbird and Fallacy's lurkiness.
2)I've provided links in the quote above.

Now answer for real.

I agree with his point on tomasque. Never mind that they're voting for me, it feels like they read through the thread, went "OOH, look how ransom and cryptic this guy is!" made a post about my loopiness, and voted.

I didn't mention you cryptic numbers thing at all. I was pointing out your interaction with Nirur.

Extend

[TricMagic]

Note, please use Personal Extend if you are using your own extension, and Vote for Extend if voting for a Community Extension.

My, things certainly seem to be becoming heated. Well, not to worry. Someone has granted you all an additional 24 Hours. Enjoy the Gift.

"Well, that's certainly something. Well, on with the recap of events up to this point."

First 24

Code: (Player Vote Count, Second 24 and counting) [Select]

1. Icytea
2. FallacyofUrist
3. hector13(0) 
4. Failbird105(2) dolores, Nirur Torir,
5. roseheart(1)  webadict,
6. Nirur Torir(3) Failbird105, KitRougard, hector13(T24)
7. KitRougard (1) Tomasque
8. Dolores
9. Tomasque (1) Kitrougard
10. webadict(1) FallacyofUrist


Second 24
dolores for Failbird
Nirur Torir changes vote to roseheart
KitRougard retracts vote from hector13
hector13 votes for webadict
Nirur Torir switches vote over to Failbird105
Failbird105 votes for Nirur Torir
KitRougard votes for Nirur Torir
FallacyofUrist switches vote to webadict
webadict switches vote to roseheart
Tomasque votes for Nirur Torir, then KitRougard.
dolores reaffirms vote for Failbird105.
KitRougard votes for Tomasque

Third 24
hector13 switches vote to Nirur Torir
1954 Hours Left, 48 Hour Mark passed
Addition of 2400 Added.

"Quite a hectic back and forth, wouldn't you say."

"With those extra hours on the clock, it will still be a while before the end of Day 1. Not too long though.."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[IcyTea31]

you're trying to pick me up on an intentional fake slip. As you say, you can't lynch me over it. But you can't help but go after me for it. And my posts have such an earnest style that you can't even draw a pattern of suspicious behavior. You've got a solitary point you'll never connect to a case against me.

Did you consider that perhaps my goal wasn't to build a solid case against you?[/quote]

Everything you throw my way now is being lost to you in the future; if you ever try to lynch me after Day1 you either have to have sustained the case against me for the entire time or start from scratch. There's no way for you to justify using evidence in the future if you ever change your mind about me before then.

So you're saying that I need to pull every thread I have on you and build my case right now, or I'll lose the chance forever? That's not very good advice.

Now here's the part which people don't think about; this is an excellent method for finding town. Scum don't make use of that because they know who isn't in the mafia, and can generally assume that other players are town. But I can use this method as town. I can say, "oh, Hector and IcyTea think that I'm town, but they've got some things they want to ask me about". Then if you follow up on it, I can decide whether or not you're making a genuine case. Scum should want me lynched, but town should want an explanation. Conversely, if you don't follow up on it, and you do acknowledge that it's there, that's useful for me as well.

Indeed, this is a strategy I've used before as both town and scum. But it contradicts what you say afterwards:.

I don't re-read my posts because I think it makes me come off as less genuine and thus less able to be read as town.

If you don't re-read your posts, how can you weave a strong enough web to keep your story straight when it comes to convincing the other person that you aren't actually scum? Also, if you don't reread your own posts, do you reread others' posts?

I'm pretty sure that you're prepared to accept that I do believe that.

Got it, you believe that hypocrisy is a towntell.

You haven't followed up with your other criticisms, which to my eye seemed more substantial. Do you have any actual questions that you want to ask me?

I was on phone at the time, so I plucked a little string to see if it's out of tune; the bigger stuff could wait for later.

What's your read on Webadict? You seem to think that whatever he's doing is "working", so I presume you think he's town? What exactly do you think that he's accomplishing? You never even asked him a question, so you must have a pretty strongly formed read.

I don't know if he's town, but he doesn't need to be for that particular gambit. As for the details of it, well, telling would ruin the gambit, no? Of course, it's possible that it's not really the gambit I'm thinking of and he's really just a dumbass, but the data is interesting nonetheless, especially when it comes to you in particular.

Why aren't you voting for anyone? You're reading two players as slightly scummy and we're very much waiting on content from both of them, why haven't you picked someone to try to lynch?

You answered your own question.

I'm fine to Vote for Extend, though, to see if the lurkers arise.

PPE: apparently I don't need to after all.

Why have I written so much here?

Not a question you actually want answered.

Bemused why he thinks my refuge is not as good as webadict’s refuge.

Because if I was scum, I'd nightkill you, but not wuba. Madness is fine as long as it fulfills the method

[Nirur Torir]

I don't have time for all long post right now, but I do want to ask a question while Tom's posting.
Tom: Who do you most suspect, from the list of everyone who is not a new player or lurker?

Since your question on me mentioning your experience asked for an answer now: Check the pinned topics in the Mafia board, you were the last to post in the basic tutorial thread in 2016. And I think someone mentioned you in a group of more experienced players.
I haven't looked though your history yet.

[Tomasque]

Tom: Who do you most suspect, from the list of everyone who is not a new player or lurker?

Webadict, for aforementioned reasons.

[Nirur Torir]

I said not lurkers.

[hector13]

This reduces the pool of people to dolores.

Who do you think is town?

Who do you think is scum?

Who are you not sure about?

Also why, for each of the answers.

[TricMagic]

Note: Failbird wants to drop, anyone want to replace?(Failbird said they would keep posting until someone was found.)

[webadict]

webadict: I thought you said you didn't care that you were being voted, and that you weren't even playing seriously, but now that you've recently (from Fallacy and hector) gotten a lot of votes, you've latched onto an early bandwagon (nirur's vote and hector's threat) the moment you saw one ready to form. If you're trying to stop lazy behavior as you say you are, then why haven't you punished it before? All you've done is vote hector once - then done nothing with it - and for all your posturing you haven't criticize a specific person's behavior at all.

1)I could do the all at once post, where I point out the sheer incompetence of saying I haven't pointed out anyone's behavior when I'm voting roseheart for their behavior.
2)I could do the redirect, and ask for citations on almost any sentence you've said.

1) I'm saying that you haven't pointed out anyone's behavior earlier than when you voted roseheart. If you were against lazy play all along, you would have done something about failbird and Fallacy's lurkiness.
2)I've provided links in the quote above.

Now answer for real.

Answer what for real? Y'all think I'm smarter than I must be. Apparently I'm even pulling a gambit I didn't know about. The only play I'm doing is a critique on the way mediocre has become acceptable.

You want a real answer? Let's start with this:

Why did you summarize my post like that?

I could do the delayed attack, where I set up the reveal of the chat I was invited to by you and make vague and accusatory statements that might seem cult-like.

Tomasque chose hector13 and I before the game started to be in some form of chat. It seems related to the card Ojama King. I don't really care, but Tomasque can go suck a lemon. Because he didn't answer any useful questions in the chat, and because I don't care enough to give him a second chance, this is now public information. Do with it what you wish.

But, let's see if you can notice a pattern here:

hi

This is the stuff that proves my point.

This post was literally right after the post where most of your argument comes from. Fucking 15 minutes after I posted. And you don't think that maybe I'm just a liiiittle bit mad about it? It's so ironic that it hurts. Like, I died a little from that.

Now, why did I vote hector13?
It's really simple, actually: because I can!

webadict: What purpose does that WIFOM serve?

 

What purpose do you think it serves?

webadict's doing...it hard...every...t...i...me...!

hector13

Maybe you're not understanding the whole situation. This game required 10 people with a pulse, and apparently it couldn't even get that. I voted hector13 because it's actually funny to bandwagon someone. It basically let's me show off my point about how fucking lazy you can be and pretend not to do anything. I could've just not said a single word this whole game. Or I could've typed "hi" and then done nothing.

You're being real fucking obtuse if you're not seething with rage at this moment. Because I don't want to be right about this shit. I want everyone to say, "Hey, you know, you're part of the fucking problem with what you're doing!" But, I got this weird pseudo-praise about how Townie or neutral I am. Like, I didn't even do anything. dolores is the cockiest bastard here, and they understood fucking immediately how asinine it was.

I'd rather be asked about my favorite color then be able to type "herpdederp" without retribution.

That's what my fucking real answer is.

What's your read on Webadict? You seem to think that whatever he's doing is "working", so I presume you think he's town? What exactly do you think that he's accomplishing? You never even asked him a question, so you must have a pretty strongly formed read.

I don't know if he's town, but he doesn't need to be for that particular gambit. As for the details of it, well, telling would ruin the gambit, no? Of course, it's possible that it's not really the gambit I'm thinking of and he's really just a dumbass, but the data is interesting nonetheless, especially when it comes to you in particular.

It's not a gambit. It's possible to use it as a gambit to focus people to behave better than trash, but it's not. It's just a way to waste the stupid RVS of the game, if that. But, this game seems to move faster than I could probably keep up, so whatcha gonna do? Maybe it might get people to stop the weird things that are allowed to take place here.

[dolores]

This reduces the pool of people to dolores.

I'm both new and was lurking at the time you posted this.
It's too late to go to sleep tonight though, I'll do that later.
Failbird has a hell of a lot less votes than I thought. Normally replacing out isn't a sign to stop a lynch, but in this case the main reasons to vote for him have little to do with alignment.
Hector
I was serious when I asked if you're good for the nightkill on roseheart. It's the only reason I'm not voting them. Not because I think that voting them would be productive, but because they are literally not doing jack shit. They're posting outside of the game on b12, it's not like they're making an excuse because they're busy or they can't post on weekends or some shit. Until roseheart is dead or gets a replacement we're literally one kill away from being able to play the game.

Spoiler: UTC+7 (click to show/hide)

Did you consider that perhaps my goal wasn't to build a solid case against you?

Well you've got to do that eventually, otherwise you're just making it harder for people to lynch me in the future. I doubt you're that convinced that I'm town this early in the game.
If you're trying to say "I'm just pressuring you to see if you slip" then I guess you can draw your own conclusions but at the end of the day you've either got to press the issue or give up.

So you're saying that I need to pull every thread I have on you and build my case right now, or I'll lose the chance forever? That's not very good advice.

Either you need to sustain the case against me until such a time as you do, or yeah you're going to make it a lot harder to lynch me in the future. You won't lose the ability to lynch me forever, just the ability to use the evidence that you have now to support your case to do so. It's not really important either way because I don't think you've got anything on me at present.

If you don't re-read your posts, how can you weave a strong enough web to keep your story straight when it comes to convincing the other person that you aren't actually scum? Also, if you don't reread your own posts, do you reread others' posts?

I don't re-read my posts while I'm writing them. I write each section and edit them as I go, then post the whole thing. If I split a post into three parts with horizontal rules it's effectively just three posts. If I just triple-posted like a normal person it'd be the same thing because I couldn't edit my previous posts. It's the reason why I say I'll do something at the start of a post and two sections later go off on a new path, because I'll have read someone's post history and changed my mind about something or some shit like that.

I'm pretty sure that you're prepared to accept that I do believe that.

Got it, you believe that hypocrisy is a towntell.

Yeah, pretty much. If you do something and it's scummy, it's far more scummy to proceed to ignore that behavior in others than it is to continue to call others out for it. This is especially true if your motivation in failing to call it out is to avoid drawing attention to your own use of a scummy tactic.

Of course, it's possible that it's not really the gambit I'm thinking of and he's really just a dumbass, but the data is interesting nonetheless, especially when it comes to you in particular.

He's really just a twat but you're 100% right that it should be really easy to read me from my interactions with webadict (in any game) if you know what to look for because our games are 90% similar if we're both being serious.
He's not though, which is a pain in the ass, which I assume means I'm giving away something without realizing it.

Why aren't you voting for anyone? You're reading two players as slightly scummy and we're very much waiting on content from both of them, why haven't you picked someone to try to lynch?

You answered your own question.

I'd agree if the two players were Webadict and roseheart or something like that, but you don't feel like you could use your vote to apply pressure or do something to help?

KitRougard
As much as I hate to actually do something after I've said I would, leaving my vote on failbird isn't necessarily going to accomplish anything and you're crossed with someone I could be convinced to lynch anyway.
See, my problem with Tomasque is that his reasoning is actually sketchy. There's a lot to be said about him actually. Quite a lot. What concerns me is that you haven't said any of it.
My problem with you is that your reasoning isn't there. If you've actually thought about your lynch, then you haven't demonstrated your reasoning in the thread. It's not hard to do, especially since Tomasque is going after two virtual non-players with some really twisted reasoning, and if you do convince me to vote for him then I'll drop a wall of text explaining what's wrong with his posts and why I don't like his reasoning or tone. I can reasonably guarantee that he'll be lynched, which is good for you because you probably think you're town and you probably think he's scum. The caveat is that in order to convince me you need to give me some real reasons as to why I should lynch him, because if you can't do that then I can't reasonably expect to get anything out of you for the rest of the game and I can always lynch tomasque afterwards.
After reading the above you might be wondering why I'm not voting for Tomasque, given that he's actually posted things which are actually scummy that, by my own admission, I am aware of.
However, there are players who have done this and are also not active. For example, FallacyofUrist. Until he gets up to date, I can't reasonably say which of the 'scummy' players is the most 'scummy'. Similarly, I'm still waiting on a fair amount more for Nirur Torir before I can make a judgement.
What I can say with absolute certainty though, is that roseheart (in particular), failbird, KitRougard and Webadict are all anti-town to such an extent that it's impossible to determine their alignment and proceed with the game. Until such a time as they join the table with the rest of us or die, we're effectively waiting for them before the game can start.
PPE:
Webadict posted, I'll read that and post something

[dolores]

But, this game seems to move faster than I could probably keep up, so whatcha gonna do? Maybe it might get people to stop the weird things that are allowed to take place here.

So are you going to play?
We've got roseheart, someone in replacements, and a player whose convinced they can't do anything so they're refusing to show their homework. The things you're posting aren't less substantial than what a lot of people here are posting, so it's not like relative inactivity is going to be too huge of a deal. You've got until roseheart dies or is replaced or decides to show up to catch up anyway since by definition of having voted once ever you've avoided being the least helpful player here.

[Nirur Torir]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tom: I'd still like to hear who you most suspect from those who aren't lurkers (like Webby) or newbies. That leaves Dolores, Tom, IcyTea, Hector, and me. Or do you read us all as town?

Tomasque: who is the highest threat to you right now?

Kit. Although I'm seeing suspicious actions in a lot of people, his actions have made me think that he's the most likely to be scum. The explanation is at the bottom of this post.

Oh good, you do see things to be suspicious of. What are they, and from who?

Demanding more information about a vague post ("We're screwed if two town fall, for real, just trust me") is hardly a rolefish. Perhaps you know more about Kit's role than you let on if you know explaining the numbers would be a full claim?

I know nothing about the Tower of Salem's culture, where Kit's from. I've tried real-time mafia-like games a few times, and people were pretty fast to roleclaim.
Given my then read on Hector, it seemed a good idea to say something in case Kit was thinking of roleclaiming.

Answering a related question, top 3 scumpicks ..
I'd guess Failbird105 is flailing about, trying to get direction from a more experienced partner who's absent: IcyTea, Toma, or FallacyofUrist.

Hey now, you can't just say that and leave it. What are your cases on me, Toma and FoU?

At the time of that post? Lurkers who do nothing. And it fit with a newbie scum waiting for a partner, did you even bother to read what you quoted, or did you only notice your name as an off-hand possibility for being scum?

Nirur Torir: Let's assume Hector is scum. Who is/are his scumbuddy/scumbuddies?

In that hypothetical?
One's Tom:

Tomasque - town-lean - handful of posts I haven’t read into much, was busy, looks like he’s trying to get more solid reads on people. Pushes Nirur for talking nonsense about Tomasque’s playing experience, has a case on Kit which I can accept as reasonable at this point of the game.

"I can't be bothered to read his posts, but he sounds reasonable and is clearly doing stuff."
(With focus on easy targets.)
The other's IcyTea.

IcyTea - town lean. Engaging with things, asking people things. Bemused why he thinks my refuge is not as good as webadict’s refuge. Reads list doesn’t quite gel with mine, can’t complain about that I guess.

Two posts are not enough to really say someone's being engaging.
Honorable mention for Dolores, since they both say the other is town.

What's your read on IcyTea?

Why did you ask me this a few posts after asking me to list reads for everyone?

Out of roseheart, failbird and Kit, does anyone actually look scummy or do you just think that they're too inactive to tell?

I think Roseheart and Fail are too inactive to tell.

To my mind Toma's case on Kit is absolutely terrible. The worst part is that it's understandable to want to vote for kit but he's twisted reasons to try to make kit look like scum? The only reason I don't find this incredibly suspicious is I absolutely cannot follow whatever convoluted bullshit is right above it with webadict. The only reason I'm not following up on this is because I don't mind using a shitty scum-case to ride on someone who I think I might want lynched. Are you seeing what I'm seeing with this?

No, Kit being wishy-washy felt weird at the time and I let it pass because at the time I wanted more pressure on Hector. And now they're looking more town to me than scum, and are being interrogated just fine by others.
And that's a pretty leading question.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure webadict got what I was getting at when I was talking to him. I'm not sure if anybody else did, but the point is that you nerds need to stop acting like what wuba is/was doing is okay. We've got two people voting for him which is great and all and I guess the best you can do, so I suppose we can just lynch him.

I'm not disagreeing with a Webby lynch if he doesn't shape up, but I feel like you've said a few times that "Nobody needs a real reason to attack lurker X."

I really don't like how they're just kinda coasting along after going after hector and that's still true.

Roseheart's post hurt me and left me feeling like the game was dead last night. Glad that was proven wrong.

Nirur: Am I town? Why were you so instantly deferential when I disagreed with your case on hector?

Towniest of all non-me choices. The thread inactivity is a big sticking point with you, and it'd be so easy to just not fight as hard and have a weak day 1. (I understand this is weak and a scum-Dolores would should care about reviving activity as a meta thing. Still townier than most others.)
My plan of attack was "Pressure the scum/jester using the newbie tactic of jester claiming" to try to figure out whether or not he was. Him being experienced left me with no reason to keep that attack up.

Nirur - feeling scummy, but that’s mostly because of the poor case on me. This post seems to imply that my level of experience has cleared me in some capacity? Doesn’t want to interact with me anymore, probably worried I noticed how little he did on his own, maybe worried about making a slip with “buddies”.

Is that really your best attack on me? Hammering me about assuming there's more than two scum to go with 10 players, and that I didn't attack you hard enough?

Wow, that's enough to make me the scummiest here, and a more worthwhile lynch than a lurker or Roseheart's aggressive lurking?

IcyTea - town lean. Engaging with things, asking people things.

What a quick town-read. "Engaging with things" when he has had two posts, one of which was RVS.

What's your read on Webadict? You seem to think that whatever he's doing is "working", so I presume you think he's town? What exactly do you think that he's accomplishing? You never even asked him a question, so you must have a pretty strongly formed read.

I don't know if he's town, but he doesn't need to be for that particular gambit. As for the details of it, well, telling would ruin the gambit, no? Of course, it's possible that it's not really the gambit I'm thinking of and he's really just a dumbass, but the data is interesting nonetheless, especially when it comes to you in particular.

"No need to worry about his lurking, Wuba's doing fine giving me data on others with it."

Reads:
hector13 - leans town: Active early stuff, attacking me with really weak arguments to follow-up on the earlier chase, instead of attacking an easy to lynch lurker.
Dolores - likely town, for the earlier attempts to keep the game flowing.
KitRougard - I think he leans town, actually, but needs to do more. Casually revealed a "big ability" night action in addition to the number thing. He doesn't seem the sort to make and be able to hold that bluff unprompted, as a newbie scum with no data on what sort of roles Tric would give to town in a BYOR.
Failbird105 - Lurker trying to replace out. Okay I'll unvote.
FallacyofUrist - Who? Do we even have a player by that name? If we do, they'd better post their list of reads on everyone.
Icytea - Starting to lean scum. His arguments feel off to me, and he's trying to claim that Webby's nonsense is useful.
Tomasque - Leaning scum. Hasn't done anything other than go for easy attacks.
webadict - Leaning scum. Needs to do more now that people are actually playing.
roseheart - Haaate. Go ruin something else. I'd vote you to just get out but most people are actually playing now.

[Failbird105]

I'm sorry guys, it's just become readily apparent that the way my mind handles just anything where I'm required(or at least heavily expected) to post meaningfully and frequently just does not match in pace at all with how forum Mafia is meant to be played. The way I work is that I procrastinate and painstakingly agonize over every single detail of my post to the point where I make one meaningful post a day if even that, which is not a habit I'm going to be able to shake with just one round, and I've already got another game I'm in that I have the same problem with, because which my ability to play either game is even more limited and I'm forced to choose. It feels like there's an invisible weight on my chest and it just progressively crushes a bit further the longer I'm here.
I just don't want to be a liability for any longer than I have to, and I feel like just silently vanishing will be even more of one than just posting whatever little meaningful post I actually manage to scrounge up if any.

[IcyTea31]

Webadict: In the beginning of the game I asked you how you're going to prevent a repeat of FBYOR4. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and expected that you'd have taken that experience and made something good out of it. When I saw your first few posts, I saw the marks of a possible town gambit using those lessons learned. That game showed you can get away with obvious scum behaviour, as long as you do it so obviously that no sane scum would do it. For instance, declaring that everyone else is terrible and that you won't cooperate so you can see how other players react. You even seemingly hinted at that being the goal with your statement of "lynching me is what scum would do." I even managed to bring up an abstract example of it with dolores, to see if they could notice it as well.

I expected you to take this game seriously. Guess I was wrong, you're just still sore and petty, and you've learned nothing. But that raises a question: if you're not here to play the game, why are you here? An active game is not the proper time or place to whine about the state of the subforum.

I get your overarching point, yes. It's even neatly demonstrated by how "taking the game seriously and trying their hardest" is apparently an unfair expectation to have of other players, even for experienced ones like you. I'll be sure not to be as naïve in the future.

Fuck you. I'm going to sleep.