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[BlackHeartKabal]

Oh, god, this started, my apologies. Let me read the thread.

[Starver]

By my (on the road) reckoning, that just leaves:

*[0] darkwarlock3

Unless I missed their contribution.

Thoughts (proper ones) when I'm deskbound again, probably. Not that I can imagine having anything profound to say.

[mightymushroom]

Maybe in 7 player games, but you try convincing everyone. I just let them do the convincing, and so they may slip up trying to lynch me.

Not like I have a problem being voted off... So long as everyone talks.

You would really be addressing the 5 or so who were voting you.
And if you want people talking, why not spread some ideas or get all logical up in their faces?
It seems we have a similar sense of humor; but I dislike the hypocrisy of, "I want to watch other people talking therefore it's okay for me to say little."

If I were not waiting on hector13 and mulling over how easily I pushed IcyTea off your wagon that might have pulled me onto it.

[TricMagic]

Quick question, how many were voting for me? I thought it was just 3, then 4..

[TricMagic]

Nope, it was 3 out of 11, not 5.

Vote TricMagic, for the SK thing, quickly bandwagoning, and for your opening comment which could be interpreted as a halfhearted attempt to get people to spill their power roles, I'll admit it's not good evidence but this is day 1.

Vote TricMagic, for the SK thing, quickly bandwagoning, and for your opening comment which could be interpreted as a halfhearted attempt to get people to spill their power roles, I'll admit it's not good evidence but this is day 1.

I’ll buy in.

TriMagic

Also for editing your post, even if you didn’t change anything other than the colour.

If you need to edit anything, you should make another post.

Hm. One the one hand, bandwagoning someone when an explicit part of the reasoning is that person having bandwagoned someone else is a little off. On the other hand, TricMagic actually does look suspicious.

Ehhhhh, I'll go for it, TricMagic, but if he(?) flips town, I've got your number, turtle.

As a side note, IcyTea unvoted, twice in fact. So I'll Unvote as well.


Note, please add Vote: NameGoesHere, what's with all the red? Was that a vote?

Unvote.

TricMagic. Unless this is some bizarre gambit, the wagon seems reasonable. And if TricMagic isn't evil, at least I now have some reads (to be compiled in a later post).

Still seems to be four then, not five. 5 is worrisome, but 3 isn't.

[BlackHeartKabal]

Right.

hector13: Town. Not as active as I'd expect, but that doesn't mean much.
Starver: Null. The asking to visit is odd, but that could mean anything.
blueturtle1134: Slight town. They aren't scum, I feel, and there isn't much against them.
TricMagic: Miller, huh?
IcyTea31: Null. They have observations, but nothing conclusive.
juicebox: Scum. I'd probably vote them, if not for Tric's miller claim.
MoonyTheHuman: Null. Maybe a bit lurky.
mightymushroom: Strong town. Very involved.
darkwarlock3: Null. Not a lot to work with, huh?
Maximum Spin: Town. They're focused on scumhunting, and would probably be a good choice to take charge of things.

I'm not one for the chaos of Day 1, but Tric's behavior tells me that they're a good D1 lynch, and we do need some info.

[hector13]

Need to read a few things, will wait ‘til I get to a computer, which’ll be a bit ‘cause I’m eating and watching people... wait for other people to play video games.

[mightymushroom]

TricMagic: I believe juicebox marked you in red, which I'm counting as a vote, well before the others.

Then blueturtle, hector13 and Maximum Spin.

Icy Tea unvotes his earlier mark against BHK to vote you,
and later on unvotes you too.

And now BHK votes you back up to five.

(My counting five earlier was not keeping the timing straight relative to the post I quoted.)

"Unvote" in (preferably bold) red cancels what was active at the time. Precedence in the post matters, as IcyTea demonstrates. Simply voting for a new person should overwrite the old one (as hector did) but it may help the GM and others to keep things straight by mentioning it explicitly.

Fallacy, are we getting semi-regular votecounts updated officially during the Day; or, can we have ask for them any time?

[TricMagic]

Right, two things first.

i did a little work on the poem; My conclusion was this: It was probably designed to waste our time
Thanks fallacy

this is slowly becoming pacifist mafia

The Sum Contribution of Moony.

And second, we are still missing someone. May the true darkwarlock3 step up, and, I don't know, POST?


Also, let me pick apart your reasoning..

Right.

hector13: Town. Not as active as I'd expect, but that doesn't mean much.
Why is he a town read? Your reason here doesn't make sense. Neutral makes a lot more sense than this in the context.

Starver: Null. The asking to visit is odd, but that could mean anything.
...Look below on my opinion on this,

blueturtle1134: Slight town. They aren't scum, I feel, and there isn't much against them.
Town is correct here, but slight? Setting hector13 as Town when you said "Not as active as I'd expect, but that doesn't mean"is very suspicious. Turtle has been active.

TricMagic: Miller, huh?
Also Gunsmith apparently.. Can't speak in my defense, but it is data against you.

IcyTea31: Null. They have observations, but nothing conclusive.
In regards to your list? Sure! He did put me on his list apparently, for a bit. What does this say that you also pick me as mafia?

juicebox: Scum. I'd probably vote them, if not for Tric's miller claim.
Let's see, Jester claim early on, says in the same post that they think I'm Scum.. Grab the quote-

Well first I'd like to say that I am a jester

Secondly, TricMagic is scum, town would never offer an SK a gun.

He later on claims him claiming Jester does not matter cause it was a joke...

MoonyTheHuman: Null. Maybe a bit lurky.
Lurky Lurky.

mightymushroom: Strong town. Very involved.
Little of Column A, little of Column B. I wouldn't say strong, but town is a good read.

darkwarlock3: Null. Not a lot to work with, huh?
Wasn't much to work with on you either. Where you've been?(Actually curious)

Maximum Spin: Town. They're focused on scumhunting, and would probably be a good choice to take charge of things.
Sure they are. (SR joke buddies for all) As is, He jumped on my bandwagon. As in on me..
Fun fact, he hasn't posted in a while, and his vote on me is still sitting there as the 3rd.
(It's shifted back and forth, but vote 3 is more of a bandwagon move than vote 2 at 11 players)

I'm not one for the chaos of Day 1, but Tric's behavior tells me that they're a good D1 lynch, and we do need some info.
How am I a good lynch anyway, this is the first major deconstruction I've done Day 1.

Now for the Starver bit. You seem to be taking the beginning claims a bit far. Beyond that, he has said he's likely to keep his vote day 1.
I would either put him as Town saving his vote, or Mafia asking to exercise his power. This second bit could also be a town thing.

At the very least... The main reason I put it down here was the read on hector. I've been addressing them from top down. Now to see if there are any ninjas about.

Two of them. Noted MM. Also a hector, which is more than I can say for the warlock.

[Maximum Spin]

Maximum Spin: Town. They're focused on scumhunting, and would probably be a good choice to take charge of things.
Sure they are. (SR joke buddies for all) As is, He jumped on my bandwagon. As in on me..
Fun fact, he hasn't posted in a while, and his vote on me is still sitting there as the 3rd.
(It's shifted back and forth, but vote 3 is more of a bandwagon move than vote 2 at 11 players)

ruuuude, I just woke up.

sigh to be honest, after reading your post? I still think you are scum. BUT, there's got to be at least one more scum out there, right? Probably two. So, some considerations.

First and foremost, we still don't know if hammers are in effect. Let's try not to hammer TricMagic, which is to say, if hammers are in effect, six votes (out of 11) on one person would insta-end the day. With that in mind... unvote. Tentatively. Like I said, I still think you're scum, but there's another whole day to put the vote back on you if I feel like it.

One thing TricMagic is right about is that people who are quiet are usually scum or otherwise anti-town, because they don't want to draw attention to themselves. On the other hand, a clever anti-town player knows this — and TricMagic clearly knows this — and will therefore do the opposite. It's smart to look at inactivity, but there are other potential reasons for inactivity, especially with new players who haven't formed a coherent strategy yet... which means, to get back in the realm of my whitetext personal opinion, I feel like darkwarlock probably has no clue the game has even started yet. This is supplemented by knowing in general that darkwarlock is pretty flighty and sometimes disappears for a couple days. Having a good feeling for someone's typical activity pattern is always a benefit. BHK, on the other hand, is a competent player; it's not unbelievable that he didn't notice the game start for so long, but I have a little bit more trouble believing it.

As for TricMagic, I see a lot of talking, but just not a lot of actual scumhunting. That could also be from inexperience, of course. That inherent uncertainty is how they getcha. Buuuuut... it looks more like an inexperienced mafia player than an inexperienced town player to me. Which I guess is basically the same thing blueturtle said.

Now, onto the next topic: there's a neat trick that competent mafia players have. They play like town, honestly, hoping that whatever they say will be discredited if they get lynched and flip town — meaning that you can't always discredit someone's testimony just because you think that person is scum. Obviously, there's a huge 'WIFOM' element to this, meaning, you can't possibly know whether someone is doing this, or has an even higher-level strategy to appear to be doing this to mislead you, or has an even higher-level strategy to do this, ad nauseam... so you ultimately have to trust your gut and not overthink it. And, well, my gut is telling me that, even though I'm a bit suspicious of BHK for claiming not to have noticed the game start, I do actually agree with some of his reads. In particular, since I've unvoted TricMagic, I might as well admit that I do kinda think something is off about juicebox. Maybe he's an SK or mafia-ally, actually. Or maybe BHK is. I don't like to overcommit at this early stage. I'll reflect on this as I continue to write before voting, I think.

So who's left? I mentioned TricMagic, BHK, Darkwarlock, and juicebox, and of course you know I think I'm town. So I might as well give bullet points for everyone else, following TM/BHK's ordering.

• hector13 · Pretty neutral. Suspicious, but not strongly so; I don't know how good a player he is yet. I would lean slightly more toward 'inactive town' like BHK (another one of those agreeable reads I mentioned), but not by enough to say 'town' over 'neutral'. I mean, except for when I just said it in that sentence, but that doesn't count.
• Starver · Scum, SK, possibly cult, something is wrong here. Huh. I'm actually surprised to note how strongly my intuition responded there. Will have to consider this before voting also.
• blueturtle1134 · Neutral to town. Being loud is kind of that guy's thing. I have no strong opinions here, but no suspicion either.
• IcyTea31 · I think this guy is sorta new to mafia? But he does reflect a little suspiciously. Neutral, but leaning suspicious.
• MoonyTheHuman, on the other hand, really should be a better player than to be this quiet. That said, since I find TricMagic suspicious, and I don't have that gut feeling that TricMagic is playing the long game with those reads - in fact, they look kinda hasty - I have some reticence here. I might find MTH a lot more suspicious if TM flips town.
• mightymushroom · Looks townish to me, but hard to say. MM seems like the kind of player who could very well be pulling reverse-psychology tricks. Not a good D1 lynch in any case; I'll need some more data to pick through that guy, for sure.

That makes everyone altogether, right? Well, I reflected, like I said, and I think I have to go with my gut and say Starver.

ugh, the worst thing about waking up to a game of mafia is starting your day with a textwall. Let me know if I left out anything important.

[IcyTea31]

IcyTea31 · I think this guy is sorta new to mafia?

'Sorta' is right. This is my second game on a forum, but I do have much more experience in live games. If I seem careless, it's because I'm used to a faster pace where you can't really look back at everything everyone has said. I'm trying to break this habit, though.

[hector13]

blueturtle

Seems to me like Icy voted BlackHeart because he was lurking and Tric voted him with no good reason other than a reference to an earlier post about this being pacifist mafia. Neither person referenced bandwagoning, correct me if I'm wrong.

Nonono, you did.

Vote TricMagic, for [...] quickly bandwagoning [...]

I just thought that was ironic.

Oh yes, I was bandwagoning on the last guy to suspect him for giving SK a gun:

Well first I'd like to say that I am a jester

Secondly, TricMagic is scum, town would never offer an SK a gun.

Well see, when that was posted I didn't think that was enough evidence, because that could just be an early-game joke (we were all making them) but then he proceeded to make a bunch more slightly humorous but not actually useful observations, and to bandwagon on something with no better reason than "I want to vote." That's really why I voted him.

The last post feels very disconcerting, like turtle is trying to defend someone or something like that..?

... but it’s late and bedtime so I’ll deal with it at some other point. Probably.

Oh wait yeah, instantly saying that your vote likely won't turn up anything is scummy Was really just clarifying that I wasn't very sure, but it's better than anything else we've got.

Specifically, the characteristics I noticed (making bad jokes, voting for sake of voting, bandwagoning) could be poor town play or poor scum play, but I feel it's more likely it's poor scum play.

TricMagic: Scum. Claims both miller and gunsmith and hasn't yet defended against accusations. I would like to hear more of them, as a brilliant jester is a possibility.

I don't think he claimed anything...? That was in the early phase when we were joking about claims, something that he started and thus would be aware of. The fact that he's not responding to

Remind me, is Jester win an instant lose for Town? quick google says usually not - so it isn't catastrophic if we lynch Jester, anyway.

Hm. One the one hand, bandwagoning someone when an explicit part of the reasoning is that person having bandwagoned someone else is a little off. On the other hand, TricMagic actually does look suspicious.

Ehhhhh, I'll go for it, TricMagic, but if he(?) flips town, I've got your number, turtle.

To be fair, he's still likely to flip town. This is still random vote stage. Brace for disappointment.

These two posts are kinda contradictory. In the first one you're all "well, he's probably scum" and the second one you're all "well, he's probably town" which... I'm not sure what you're getting at?

'cause you're presently voting for someone you're not sure about, and you're not - ostensibly - trying to be more sure about it.


TricMagic

I am feeling charitable for the moment, mostly because I like where you're going re:BHK, so I will...

Unvote

... and hope to see some more of this, though perhaps with less panic. Follow up and all that.

Anyhow, just as an aside rather than anything else, how much experience of mafia do you have?


BHK

Right.

hector13: Town. Not as active as I'd expect, but that doesn't mean much.
Starver: Null. The asking to visit is odd, but that could mean anything.
blueturtle1134: Slight town. They aren't scum, I feel, and there isn't much against them.
TricMagic: Miller, huh?
IcyTea31: Null. They have observations, but nothing conclusive.
juicebox: Scum. I'd probably vote them, if not for Tric's miller claim.
MoonyTheHuman: Null. Maybe a bit lurky.
mightymushroom: Strong town. Very involved.
darkwarlock3: Null. Not a lot to work with, huh?
Maximum Spin: Town. They're focused on scumhunting, and would probably be a good choice to take charge of things.

I'm not one for the chaos of Day 1, but Tric's behavior tells me that they're a good D1 lynch, and we do need some info.

These are first impressions, based on very incomplete data. They are very much subject to change as I learn more.

hector13: Slight town. Scumhunting, but not as actively as my meta of one game would expect.
Starver: Third-party. Asking to be visited is a soft giveaway, and is suspicious but not quite scummy in my mind.
blueturtle1134: Town. Started a not-too-suspicious wagon, though I have some reservations.
TricMagic: Scum. Claims both miller and gunsmith and hasn't yet defended against accusations. I would like to hear more of them, as a brilliant jester is a possibility.
IcyTea31: Myself. Can't say a lot here, except that I'm town.
BlackHeartKabal: Null. Still lurking.
juicebox: Slight scum. Under the radar; has posted several times, but only to defend themself and to claim that at this point we need a 'good reason' to vote for someone.
MoonyTheHuman: Null. Under the radar, with little content.
mightymushroom: Town. Logical and focused play.
darkwarlock3: Null. Still lurking.
Maximum Spin: Strong town. Scumhunting, with jokes to make it less obvious.

I mean, these look almost identical. Minor variations and IcyTea thinking Starver's a TP aside, anyway. To be brutally honest it looks like you're dropping an OMGUS and using IcyTea's readslist to pretty it up.

For IcyTea too: What's so scummy about TricMagic (soft)claiming Miller, particularly when it was done in their very first post?


MM

hector13, then: you and IcyTea are the two who switched off their previous vote to get on the wagon.* Granted both were weak RVS votes, but you apparently feel stronger than I do. Do you have anything that would convince me better than quoting blueturtle?

Nah, that was something of a random vote as well. Turned into a bandwagon very quickly over very little, though; I'd be willing to be there's at least 1 scum among the people what were jumping on that, at least on D1.

PPE: Max Spin post.

blergh.

[blueturtle1134]

Seems to me like Icy voted BlackHeart because he was lurking and Tric voted him with no good reason other than a reference to an earlier post about this being pacifist mafia. Neither person referenced bandwagoning, correct me if I'm wrong.

Nonono, you did.

Vote TricMagic, for [...] quickly bandwagoning [...]

I just thought that was ironic.

Oh yes, I was bandwagoning on the last guy to suspect him for giving SK a gun:

Well first I'd like to say that I am a jester

Secondly, TricMagic is scum, town would never offer an SK a gun.

Well see, when that was posted I didn't think that was enough evidence, because that could just be an early-game joke (we were all making them) but then he proceeded to make a bunch more slightly humorous but not actually useful observations, and to bandwagon on something with no better reason than "I want to vote." That's really why I voted him.

The last post feels very disconcerting, like turtle is trying to defend someone or something like that..?

... but it’s late and bedtime so I’ll deal with it at some other point. Probably.

Oh wait yeah, instantly saying that your vote likely won't turn up anything is scummy Was really just clarifying that I wasn't very sure, but it's better than anything else we've got.

Specifically, the characteristics I noticed (making bad jokes, voting for sake of voting, bandwagoning) could be poor town play or poor scum play, but I feel it's more likely it's poor scum play.

TricMagic: Scum. Claims both miller and gunsmith and hasn't yet defended against accusations. I would like to hear more of them, as a brilliant jester is a possibility.

I don't think he claimed anything...? That was in the early phase when we were joking about claims, something that he started and thus would be aware of. The fact that he's not responding to

Remind me, is Jester win an instant lose for Town? quick google says usually not - so it isn't catastrophic if we lynch Jester, anyway.

Hm. One the one hand, bandwagoning someone when an explicit part of the reasoning is that person having bandwagoned someone else is a little off. On the other hand, TricMagic actually does look suspicious.

Ehhhhh, I'll go for it, TricMagic, but if he(?) flips town, I've got your number, turtle.

To be fair, he's still likely to flip town. This is still random vote stage. Brace for disappointment.

These two posts are kinda contradictory. In the first one you're all "well, he's probably scum" and the second one you're all "well, he's probably town" which... I'm not sure what you're getting at?

'cause you're presently voting for someone you're not sure about, and you're not - ostensibly - trying to be more sure about it.

I thought he was more likely than anyone else, but with 11 people, that still doesn't mean he's very likely. After hearing his explanation I'm starting to have second thoughts so... Unvote for now.

I'll have to look over the stuff again and see if anyone else jumps out at me as suspicious.

[TricMagic]

That is a lot of quotes..

To Answer your question, I've been in 4 completed games. Usually small, though I was in 1 10 person one.

[IcyTea31]

For IcyTea too: What's so scummy about TricMagic (soft)claiming Miller, particularly when it was done in their very first post?

It's a very odd opening move, in my mind. I wouldn't do it myself unless I was scum. Combine that with the possibly joking gunsmith softclaim and you've got an inconsistent story. Beyond that, initial gut feeling that I've come to doubt.

Going to bed.