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[Maximum Spin]

Taking time out of my scheduled post to point out that voting for you is mafia behavior apparently.

um, no? Why would you think that? You're voting for me, and I think you're town. It's usually better if you read the words that are on the screen and not the ones in your imagination.

How does one act town?

It depends on the person! You must act like the town version of yourself and not the mafia version of yourself. In general, that's how the game is played regardless of whether you are actually town or not when doing so, but nobody can completely do that, because your efforts would also be part of acting like the mafia version of yourself. So, broadly speaking, to act town you must be town.

[TricMagic]

I am drained from this.

Mafia Part 3 starts here


This will be all for now. Probably should make a read list quickly.


* hector13: Probable Town- Active, hunting, and voted for me. That counts for a lot with the rest, logic included, I am suspicious to most people. Unvoting me also counts.

* Starver: Scum/Slight Neutral- Lowest on my list, he has been participating rather well. Moony could learn from him.

* blueturtle1134: Probable Town/Likely- Active and Logical. Has also been posting. Currently Voting BHK, and was one of the first to vote for him, multiple times.
 
TricMagic: Modified Miller|Gunsmith-{What's someone who hands out a gun named?}

* IcyTea31: Likely Town- I just have a feel for him. The fact that BHK copied off his list makes this even more likely if BHK is mafia.

Spoiler: * BlackHeartKabal (click to show/hide)

 Personal Vote for Day 1- A small skit.
TM: "Hey Everyone, I'm the Miller"

IcyT: "How do I know you're not one of the Mafia?"

BHK: "Mafia! Lynch the Mafia! There can be no other course!"
BHK: "MM is a good guy though. IcyT said I think so."

MM:" I think we need more than that. Lynching him will only tell us if he's lying."

BHK: "You're an Idiot, and I can't convince you. My Plan is Best."

{May not accurately reflect true feelings, this is just a comedy skit}

* juicebox the Jester Said he was the Jester after the Gun offering, and voted for me. Leaning toward neutral on him. Most of my Scum suspicions falls on that every-steady-vote.

* MoonyTheHuman: Personal vote for Day 1- No info whatsoever. Everyone thinks so. I had to stick my neck out to gt him to bite. And he has no info other than me pushing him to participate. It's only now that people can make a read on him. Very Scum behavior.

* mightymushroom: If BHK falls Mafia, he's town or a brilliant actor. Town-read right now.

* darkwarlock3: Null/Town-lean- Reasons may just check out, and I already have enough Mafiso to check out.

* Maximum Spin: Probable Town. Kinda like Hector. In every way as above. Wouldn't surprise me if at least one of them was mafia, but both? Well, I trust them for now.


No ninja, amazing!

Right, my old list from Day 1.


From this list, it's Hector vs Max Spin. This is why I feel you could be Mafia, it's not beyond Reason. And Rgun does say he got a Scum result from you. If he's not lying... Your Lynch offers info. Also, their is a reason your name has that text, and I thought you could be an SK of some sort back then.
Nin'd. Wrong Parse MM.

I'm simply saying that all he is saying is jokey. Trying to deflect attention from himself. He claimed SK at the beginning, and says it's a joke. He suspects Starver cause he told people to visit him. He can roll this as him being town by not keeping it up, or simply push if it looks like it will hold.

I will continue to do so of course, but right now, MS gives me the most info from a lynch.
Next Ninja. Oh, it's just my imagination.

[TricMagic]

So, broadly speaking, to act town you must be town.

Lunacy! DoubleThink! TripleSpeak! Yeah do you get such an Idea. I sir, am Honest! And Earnest, but who's counting on Truth these days..

[Maximum Spin]

From this list, it's Hector vs Max Spin. This is why I feel you could be Mafia, it's not beyond Reason. And Rgun does say he got a Scum result from you. If he's not lying... Your Lynch offers info. Also, their is a reason your name has that text, and I thought you could be an SK of some sort back then.

uhh, my name has what text? Wait, are you talking about my [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] tag? That has nothing to do with this game at all... I am highly confident that Fallacy didn't assign roles based on personal text jokes. I know my role doesn't include anything about being an amplifier.

Anyway, I think it's funny that you trust RGU so much when your list implied the opposite of BHK, who he replaced and who therefore had the same alignment and role.

[Maximum Spin]

(oh yeah, I also wonder why 'it's Hector vs Max Spin', why can't we both be town?)

[TricMagic]

Missed, the point, it's more than likely neither of you can both be Mafia. You both could be town, but I'm if you are town, that means Rgun is Scum. Simple.

[Starver]

(No, I'm not saying what, because then it'll be easy to trump up the 'right' answer. Or avoid giving the 'wrong' one.)

Okay, Starver. What are your three scenarios?

I thought someone might ask that if I didn't also say that. Good job one of my Clues wasn't someone unable to read. (Or, Max, shade being thrown all around me, hoping some of it makes my shadow ever slightly more sinister...  )

[randomgenericusername]

Maximum currently seems to just be trying to knock suspicion in others to avoid the lynch, just like TricMagic said. Even if he actually somehow turns out to not be scum, against the odds, town still gets information out of it.

[Maximum Spin]

just like TricMagic said.

You two sure do make a power team, huh?

[randomgenericusername]

I hace actually been ignoring him most of the time because of how hard he is to read.

[blueturtle1134]

I hace actually been ignoring him most of the time because of how hard he is to read.

+1

[hector13]

RGU

I'm saying that it's disturbing since he is one of our (or at least my) main scum suspect. He has also been acting scummy and I have one scum result on him.

You're working from your guilty result backwards. You can't prove you're a cop, so you're saying he's acting scummy, when in reality he's acting like you would expect anyone (scum, town, third-party) to react after a guilty result.

How has he been acting scummy? I would like specific examples, quotes preferably.

If no one believes me, then why isn't people voting me either? It's just that since there are no hammers, people should be putting their votes now instead of waiting for the day to end without doing anything about it.

There is the potential that you were redirected or such like. Just 'cause you got a guilty result doesn't mean it was a guilty result on MaxSpin. However, my opinion is that the particular things that would have to happen (you being redirected, another framer being in the game etc) are unlikely.


MaxSpin

Edited for the bits I want to comment on.

RGU: Third-party, possibly really a cop who has been tricked, but either way probably an SK. Maybe the even to his odds is MURDER.

I don't understand how he could be third-party here. We lynch you and you flip anything that isn't mafia? He's next. Consequently, I think he's telling the truth about getting a guilty result.

Whether you are in actuality guilty is a very different question.

SK needs everyone to die, challenging when you're not around to do it. What do you think he can do to achieve that if he only has two nights and three days to accomplish killing 10 players?

Cult need to lie low for as long as possible and get parity with the rest of the town, Not easy when you lose a member because they jumped the gun. Cult have 2 members at most right now, three tomorrow, meaning they're not going to throw a member away if they can help it, 'cause they win after N4 if they don't lose anyone and, get recruits every night, and scum kill non-cult.

Tric: probably really a miller. I feel that your, well, general sense of naiveté is genuine and town-directed. I also think you are possibly insane.

He has been less than helpful during the day, complaining about policy lynches on D1 and being delayed on D2, which apparently means Starver is super-guilty of something. Basically, if you didn't have a guilty vote on you, he'd be my choice today.

hector: I don't know why I feel so convinced that he's an investigator but I DO. Town.

*shrugs* not sure why you keep bringing it up since I'd be more useful to town being undercover

Starver: Extremely suspicious. Probably definitely mafia. Maybe a cultist, though, if Fallacy felt like pulling out all the stops? I wouldn't put that past him.

This is how Starver plays. He's very difficult to stick down, but as anti-town he is an opportunistic predator. Pay attention around deadlines, especially if he's around when there are fewer players.

blueturtle: Possibly mafia. Mild suspicion, not high.

This kinda mirrors Tric a bit. blueturtle has been a bit more on the ball regarding the scenarios between you and RGU, but I think he has come to the right conclusions so far. Not exclusive to town, of course, but a bit more useful than Tric's complaints.


Had other things to say but I got invited out for board games, so fuck y'all maybe more later.

[Starver]

(I must note here that I am flattered, cross-game meta-wise, though naturally I also claim my innocence in this particular point of this particular game...)

[randomgenericusername]

Well, there's many things. Things like the excessive use of emoticons and nonserious comments like jokes or calling out players as "rude" for mentioning his broken logic:

Again, case by case analysis:

Spin's town: He's claiming that he has an inherent bias towards doctor claims...? Can anyone that knows him collaborate this? And Mafia would totally want to kill you even if you're committed. Kill you this night, kill Random the next; doctor and cop, done with. You're using broken logic and emotional reasoning to support your actions, which isn't really towny.

Wow, rude

In all seriousness, I'm just not sure what else to do. I don't have any strong basis on which to proclaim my innocence, nor do I have any strong reason to think or convince you that RGU is lying. Besides, I'm clearly claiming that I have an inherent bias toward claims. (and you meant corroborate ) Anyway, what you're missing from the "doctor and cop, done with" thing is that it gives the cop another chance, and I estimate it's likely that there are other cops out there, now that I know for a fact that there were at least two doctors. I mean, my other option is probably going to be getting lynched now, so I want to at least have the chance to be helpful to town, instead of just spending all my turns protecting hec like I was otherwise going to.

Anyway, I don't think anyone here has enough experience with me to corroborate my point about claiming things too much, but, I mean, just the last game I was in, I pretty much laid out my entire role on d1. It didn't save me there either...

Then there's this:

This is just appeal to emotion, which only makes you scummier in my eyes.

Um, which part? I don't think I've made any appeals to emotion. I don't even have emotions.

I don't believe there's a mafia framer because that would mean scum has two framers.

Okay, I mean, we'll see. I bet you're wrong.

FoU also confirmed that hidden modifiers are not included in the game. Those are mostly used in bastard games, while this is mostly vanilla.

Huh? I didn't say anything about hidden... ah, I see, when I said "unknown modifiers" I meant unknown to us, presumably known to the role holder.

I am a cop and have a scum result on you, which makes you confirmed scum from my point of view.

That's really bad and dumb! That's exactly why things like millers and framers exist, to trip up people who think that way.

He's saying that my arguments are "dumb" and "bad" without really addressing why. He says that millera could mess with this result, but he isn't a miller. The framer is also dead. The only explanation is that he's scum.

He continues to base his arguments in improbable situations and emotions to have others pity him to avoid being lynched.

[Maximum Spin]

Well, there's many things. Things like the excessive use of emoticons and nonserious comments like jokes or calling out players as "rude" for mentioning his broken logic [...] He's saying that my arguments are "dumb" and "bad" without really addressing why.

Bro, that is just how I talk.

He says that millera could mess with this result, but he isn't a miller. The framer is also dead. The only explanation is that he's scum.

I basically guarantee you that there is another framer. Just because everyone is convinced that there is no second framer, I feel completely confident that there must be one. And I am going to be so smug if it turns out there is one. Of course, you could also have been redirected, or any number of other things.

What you're not getting is that I am starting from the presumption that I am town, so whatever you perceive as "improbable situations" are just my best efforts to propose a scenario in which you could still be telling the truth, knowing that I am town. It's not scummy to... not be scum. Am I supposed to just go "well, you got me, I fold"? I can't, because you didn't get me. When you have eliminated the impossible (such as me being scum, which I know I'm not), whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


Finally...

emotions to have others pity him

This continues to concern me. When did I do this? I don't think I ever did this. That's not trolling, or subversion, or whatever. I'll even put it in greentext to prove it's neutral even though it makes no sense as advice, if you want: I don't think I ever made an emotional argument to attract pity or for any other reason in this game. What even is an emotional argument in mafia? "Don't lynch me because it would make me sad"? I don't even understand what you're saying conceptually. All I've done that is remotely emotional is... state my reactions to things, mostly facetiously? I guess stating your reactions to things is implicitly using pathos by inviting the reader to empathise, but the alternative is, what, not stating a true (though often exaggerated because that's part of my dialectical style) fact because it's not the kind of thing you want to hear? Let's not forget that pathos is one of the three core forms of rhetoric, there's nothing wrong or invalid about it.