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Author Topic: Poorly Plagiarizing Heinlein Titles: Job, a comedy of Bible discussion  (Read 2959 times)

McTraveller

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Re: Poorly Plagiarizing Heinlein Titles: Job, a comedy of Bible discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2018, 11:58:24 am »

Isn't that one of the things that was attributed to Abraham?  That is - the focus on Yahweh as the only God rather than all the other gods out there at the time?

It's actually an interesting take on mono-vs poly-theism, that perhaps the other gods were in fact the fallen angels and/or Nephilim or demons or other spiritual beings or whatever.  The Bible doesn't speak too much about those beings actually.  And what the Bible does say, like in the examples with Moses and Elijah, is that those gods are indeed not 'omni-' in some aspect (omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, take your pick).

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Kagus

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Re: Poorly Plagiarizing Heinlein Titles: Job, a comedy of Bible discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2018, 12:05:03 pm »

Fun fact: Ancient Egypt almost went monotheistic (sun worship) due to rogue pharoah (forget which one, Atenhaken or something), but it failed because the priesthood was still a strong political faction.

Akhenaten, yes. And a big deal of the success in restoring the original order was Akhenaten's early death, leaving the kingdom in the hands of his priest-tutored and easily manipulated son, Tutankhaten (later changed to Tutankhamon after he officially restored the priesthood, changing his name's root from the heretical god Aten/Aton to the more acceptable traditional god Amon). And yes, that's the King Tut.

Actually I think I may be messing up a bit with regards to what was Aten and what was Aton, as I'm pretty sure daddy changed his name too once he came out with his big reveal...

Some theories suggest that jews went fully monotheistic after contact with Atenist exiles.


But yeah,  original jews were not monotheists.  There is plenty of evidence of it, even in the Bible itself, if you look closely. 

Yeah, some of the apocrypha is pretty interesting in this regard (Enoch comes to mind), as there's some actual conflict. Strangely enough, omnipotent-omniscient-omnipresent deities make for some very dull story arcs, generally...

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Poorly Plagiarizing Heinlein Titles: Job, a comedy of Bible discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2018, 12:10:21 pm »

Isn't that one of the things that was attributed to Abraham?  That is - the focus on Yahweh as the only God rather than all the other gods out there at the time?

It's actually an interesting take on mono-vs poly-theism, that perhaps the other gods were in fact the fallen angels and/or Nephilim or demons or other spiritual beings or whatever.  The Bible doesn't speak too much about those beings actually.  And what the Bible does say, like in the examples with Moses and Elijah, is that those gods are indeed not 'omni-' in some aspect (omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, take your pick).
Well it mostly says their god is greater, period, without going into debates about omniness. But there are  things.. for instance, the Bible lists Elohim as a name for the Biblical god. Yet... Elohim is a label that is applied to the children of El, which was the main god in several ancient Middle Eastern religions.

On the other hand wikipedia states that some scholars think that Yahweh might be shorthand for " "El who creates the hosts" in Phoenician.

And yet again, apparently old versions of Deuteronomy dont depict Yahweh even as the main god, but a child of El
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Iron_Age_I_(1200–930_BCE):_El,_Yahweh,_and_the_origins_of_Israel
Quote
When the Most High (’elyōn) gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated humanity,
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of divine beings.
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage


Pd:
Quote
Akhenaten, yes. And a big deal of the success in restoring the original order was Akhenaten's early death, leaving the kingdom in the hands of his priest-tutored and easily manipulated son, Tutankhaten

Well, more practically, Akhenaten was an iconoclast.  His ban on the traditional religion might have been aimed at destroying the priest's of Amon power base, but it made him wildly impopular with the common folk (particularily in regards to the worship of the *other* gods, for what I've read. The element that made them really angry was the ban of the cult of Osiris)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 12:14:23 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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Shazbot

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Re: Poorly Plagiarizing Heinlein Titles: Job, a comedy of Bible discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2018, 12:11:11 pm »

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Heh, Hades. I never knew God adhered the Greek Pantheon.

Or the author was writing in Greek.
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Teneb

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Re: Poorly Plagiarizing Heinlein Titles: Job, a comedy of Bible discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2018, 12:32:15 pm »

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Heh, Hades. I never knew God adhered the Greek Pantheon.
Or the author was writing in Greek.
The greco-roman afterlife was sometimes simply called "Hades" instead of Erebus or, more rarely, Avernus.
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