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[Madman198237]

But it's being used to specifically improve our production capabilities. That is an immediate boost, AND it gets us the experience from the token (Not the same magnitude of bonus, of course, but I judge it to be good enough when combined with production boosts), AND it allows us to deploy any armor we may create. Speaking of which, right now our best bet is ceramics of some kind, and we need only a revision to utilize ceramic materials that already exist.

[Chiefwaffles]

I highly doubt that ceramics would hold a candle up to alloy armoring. Especially given how much this AR has been adhering to XCOM2012, even to the point of including EXALT.

It doesn't get us experience from the token. It gets us zero relevant experience towards alloy armoring. We already spent an alloy token on including alloy parts in our railguns. We know how it works. We know how to use alloys.
That and the way it's being used in your design makes it useless. Again, throwing tokens at designs doesn't magically enhance the design. It just gives us a bonus to the difficulty of anything it's relevant too. Your use of the token sounds like an extremely stretched way of uselessly trying to get a bonus from an irrelevant token.


Cnidaros, what's your problem with the XCOM Base Overhaul? It also specifically upgrades base defense, it's more focused than Madman's Base Upgrade, and it doesn't improperly use an alien alloy token.

[Happerry]

While I still wish the base overhaul added an alien containment facility, I'm in agreement with Chiefwaffles on the issue of token use(lessness), so will be voting for his description.

XCOM Main Base Upgrade (2): Madman, Cnidaros
Alpha X (0):
XCOM Base Overhaul (2): Chiefwaffles, Happerry

[Cnidaros]

Cnidaros, what's your problem with the XCOM Base Overhaul? It also specifically upgrades base defense, it's more focused than Madman's Base Upgrade, and it doesn't improperly use an alien alloy token.

Your base overhaul also includes "equipping engineering with alien alloy components, which sounds exactly like what Madman is doing, except without the alien alloy token to make it more successful.

Again, I feel like this is a fundamental difference in how we view tokens. Are you going to vote for alien alloy armour in this turn's revision? If no, why not use the token now and wait to get another token next turn, or the turn after? The way Madman is using token seems to me to also make producing alien alloy armour easier in the future.

I believe that we should use tokens as much as possible to make our designs more successful so we can win and gain more tokens. Not spread them out among designs one by one toward the design that is most obviously suited for a token. Our 'to-do' list for tokens will always be excessively long and take a backseat to what we need urgently in the next turn, so why not use those tokens immediately?

TLDR: Either write up an alien alloy armour design now and vote for it, or wait for the next few turns to get another AA token and do it then (which is more likely if we use the tokens we have NOW). Don't bank all these tokens for "next turn", because next turn we'll need something urgently again.

[Chiefwaffles]

Sheesh.
We can’t and shouldn’t rely on getting tokens at certain times because we can’t predict that. This is our second alloy token ever. And we shouldn’t only ever design reactively.

I fully plan on an alien alloy armor design next turn. It can help air or soldiers immensely and unless the aliens do something totally out of left field (which happens, but it is an insanely bad idea to plan that it’ll happen every turn because then you’ll only ever be designing reactively. Which is really bad.) But it practically requires an alien alloy token.


Whereas Madman’s use of the token is the closest possible thing you can get to throwing it away.

You know what my design does? It uses our exact existing experience with alien alloys - using it to create more reliable parts - to do something that will much more concretely help engineering. Madman’s design just says “i dunno just use a token to make engineering betterer”
And if you forgot, Ebbor confirmed a while back that it’s fine to use existing experience without relevant tokens. Making super-reliable alien alloy parts is exactly what we did before. Making full-blown armor is not.

[Strongpoint]

XCOM Main Base Upgrade (2): Madman, Cnidaros
XCOM Base Overhaul (3): Chiefwaffles, Happerry, strongpoint

[Madman198237]

Whereas Madman’s use of the token is the closest possible thing you can get to throwing it away.

You know what my design does? It uses our exact existing experience with alien alloys - using it to create more reliable parts - to do something that will much more concretely help engineering. Madman’s design just says “i dunno just use a token to make engineering betterer”

Sheesh indeed.

Little bit of civility, please? A decrease in bias would also be welcome.

[Strongpoint]

I am in the - "use your tokens as soon as possible" camp but I hate generic "improve everything" kind of designs. I would very much prefer to go for one thing (industry) but industry + base defense is a lesser evil for me.

I think designs should be planned like - "we have those tokens, what useful things we can do using them?" not "I want X project are there any tokens that fit it perfectly?"

[Madman198237]

I fail to see how any of what you just said is relevant to either design. My base design includes defenses (Railguns, longer-ranged missiles, HARMs), makes good use of the power core token (Making a power system for the defenses), and the rest of it is "build things in greater numbers, using our alien tech". Using regular human tech to build things better/build more things doesn't make sense, because we're already at the cutting edge of human technology. So we use alien equipment to make advanced tech.

Also, as a general rule, working metals requires something of similar toughness. If you hammer iron, even hot iron, with a copper hammer, you're mainly going to distort your hammer. Remaking tools and equipment out of alien alloy/with an understanding of the alloy's properties will allow us to better manipulate the stuff, hopefully allowing us to improve our production capabilities.

[Blood_Librarian]

Working Metal by regular forging is outdated. Magnets can shear apart metal plates without even touching the plates themselves, nevermind Arc Furnaces, Press Plates, etc. Yes, using alien materials for tools will help, but focussing hte presumably high-end materials that represent the cream-of-the-crop alloys that a token represents. We are still harvesting entire UFO's worth of alloys, its just that those alloys are presumably useless for the vast majority of what we would use a token for (Guns, Vehicles, etc.) I'd imagine that as time goes by, we re incorporating less immediately useful or harder to work alloys into our industrial equipment as time goes by.

XCOM Main Base Upgrade (2): Madman, Cnidaros
Alpha X (0):
XCOM Base Overhaul (3): Chiefwaffles, Happerry, Blood_librarian

Sometimes I feel like I lose all opinion of these things.

EDIT: Posting a possible Revision centered around the UEO (Unidentified Enemy Object)

Those little yellow boxes, they contain only grey ash, but what if we can prevent them from self-destructing? I think we should try and recover them.

REVISION: UED Detonation Prevention

1.Create a mechanical tool with an electrode on the end, designed to be slotted into a UED and prevent its self-destruct.
2.Modify the equivalent of a military Wireless Communications system to function for a mission run, designed to emulate a certain aspect of the UFO's "idle" state on the ground, targetted at the UEO, to hopefully slow down its detonation.
3. Test these objects on recovered units (detonated ones recovered in the field).

The Dust contained within these objects are simply... fascinating. Even in their grey, ashen state, we have made several groundbreaking creations in various fields, but what if there is more? We cannot progress any further with the disintegrated remains and to that end experimentation into the theoretical recovery of the contents of UEDs. Namely, a mechanical release has been found, and when applied with both force and an electrical shock from a specialized tool that we have replicated, it is possible to manually remove its contents from the container and the self-destruct mechanism, allowing recovery of the Ashy Dusty contents, hopefully before it detonates..

Secondly, we have made several theories on the state of the cause of self-destruction. To that end, we have modified a standard Radio-emission system along with an absurdly expensive computer to be able to rudimentarily reproduce a local UFO's local broadcast signal to the UED. We believe this will delay the self-destruct mechanism, as the radio emissions of the UFO subtly change when XCOM forces are present, and we believe this signal is what causes the detonation of the UED.

[10ebbor10]

Design: XCOM Base Overhaul
1 Alien Power Core Token
Instead of trying to work out the many logistical capabilities of constructing or organizing an entirely new XCOM outpost in a new part of the world all in complete secrecy, let's upgrade our main base.

The first, main, and most obvious improvement is the new Elerium Generator, based off of the alien UFO power core and our other experience with elerium (e.g. railguns). This generator lies underneath our base, providing more than enough power for whatever we need. We anticipate engineering (and to a lesser extent, general R&D) to be extremely happy that they'll be able to use as many tools and equipment and expansions to their workshops as they want without causing a base-wide brownout again.
We've also equipped engineering with alien alloy components - the same type of thing we did with the XH-2. Alien alloy components in machinery should greatly increase their lifespan, decrease maintenance costs, and even increase operation speeds as machinery can work faster without overheating or malfunctioning.
Production capacity of all kinds should hopefully go way up thanks to these improvements, and the elerium generator should both pave the way for future power generation technology (being able to work on the scale of a base reactor instead of, say, a rifle-sized reactor, really helps R&D) and "future-proof" our base for anything else that requires power.

Base defenses are improved as well. New overcompensating drastically upscaled railguns are put into place in positions that allow them to be raised out of the ground in case of incoming alien forces, with our new power supply being more than able to keep them running constantly.
Rockslide technology is being integrated into our base in two ways, as well.
The first way is clear - improving our G2A missiles to use Rockslide tech and thus increasing accuracy and effectivenesss.
The second thing we're doing with Rockslide is integrating it into our [radar/sensor arrays/whatever it is that we use to detect UFOs] in order to vastly improve UFO detection and recognition capabilities. We hope to be able to see through ECM, get better advanced warning on incoming alien craft, get more detailed readouts on new UFO types, and more. This is done by embedding the Rockslide recognition technology to use the data from our sensors, allowing it to single out UFOs that would normally be dismissed as background radiation and give us better details on existing sensor signatures.

Hard : 1 + 4 -1 = 4 (Below Average)

Deep underground, on the lowest levels of XCOM HQ, the captured UFO power core is slowly fitted into it's specially designed cradle. Humming softly, the salvaged generates is slowly brought to full power. On another part of the island, large gas turbines fall silent one by one as the load is transferred. They'll not be needed unless the core failed, or the base finds itself under attack.

Culprits of that are the three large railgun turrets, and their superconductor capacitors. Capable of projecting massive slugs at extreme velocity, these large weapons provide a powerful punch to the base defenses, in addition to their already powerful missile weaponry. Until their times comes however they remain unpowered and hidden underground.

Other improvements have also filtered back into the base. The radar systems have been equipped with Rockslide heuristics, though the system's tendency for occasional false alerts has rendered it somewhat unpopular with it's operators. The heuristic was intended for use on already discovered and targeted UFO's, without something to look for it's a lot more fickle. Even so, it should help identify craft.

Lastly, there's the results of unleashing production and research from their tight energy budgets. The first result was the reinstating of those energy budgets, after a few worryingly energetic proposals. Nonetheless, production has picked up somewhat, with machinery working harder and the occassional alien alloy replacement part keeping everything going.

Spoiler: Technology (click to show/hide)

Vehicles

Raven (Interceptor) : Way beyond the bleeding edge of technology, the Raven is far beyond any other jet fighter ever build on Earth. With upgraded avionics, adjusted tracking, and advanced pulse detonation engines, the Raven is capable of pursuing even high speed alien craft. If needed, it can use it's avalanche missiles to shoot down any intruders.   Cost :   2  VP
      - Rockslide Missiles : An upgraded targeting system, that increases missile effectiveness.
      - Ground Combat Package : Replaces half of the Raven's Avalanche missiles with high tech air-to-ground SMART missiles

Skyranger (Troop Transport) : World's first supersonic troop transport. The Skyranger is high speed, heavily armored troop transport, capable of deploying and retrieving a single squad of soldiers in various situations. Cost : 1 VP    [1 Free Skyranger available]
 
Equipment

Basic XCOM Rifle : XCOM's standard rifle. Cutting edge, custom designed, yet still affordable. Part of standard equipment.
Cost : 0

XH-2 Railgun Rifle : An effective semi-automatic rifle. Fires a powerful railgun round with tremendous velocity and penetrative power. In addition, it's equipped with a smart SCOPE to allow it to identify enemy drone targets.
Cost : 1

Basic XCOM Grenade : A simple grenade. Activate, throw, explode. Part of standard equipment.
Cost : 0

BASIC XCOM PISTOL : A simple, highpower pistol. It packs a pretty heavy punch, making it an effective if chalkenging sidearm Part of standard equipment.
Cost : 0

Phoenix railgun pod : A modular gun pod containing a light railgun. Relatively low firerate, but decent armor penetrating capability. Can be attached to Skyrangers and Ravens, though the latter looses 4 of it's missiles to make room. Cost: 1 EP for 3


Training Program

Rookie Training Program : A basic introduction to the entire Xcom project. The absolute minimum that any soldier needs to know to operate successfully at XCOM. Cost : 1 Unit Points.

NOTSOFTER training regimen : A hard, effective international training regime, that gives our soldiers the tools and capacity to deal with aliens. Trains forces to a standard marginally higher than that attained by most special force units Cost : 1 Unit Points.

Inter Agency Cooperation teams : As part of ties developed through the NOTSOFTER training regime, we now have the capability of drawing upon special force teams. They're not as well suited to fight aliens as we're however, and nations will object if we keep losing them. Cost 1 Unit Point    [SPECIAL : Can't use XCOM GEAR, No vehicle needed for deployment when used in North America or Europe]

Mission Profiles

Interception : A simple mission profile that focuses on intercepting an alien vessel as soon as it's detected, destroying it before it can do any damage to any innocent people.

Down and Capture : A more complicated mission profile that focuses on downing an alien vessel (or waiting for it to land), and then storming it with ground forces.

Combined Arms : A mission profile that integrates air and ground forces to storm UFO's, using aerial bombing, reconnaissance and strafing runs when available to take out enemy strongpoints or UFO armor.

XCOM Resources

Island Mountain HQ [An isolated, hidden underground base on a remote island in the Aegean]
       - UFO Power Core
       - Railgun Defenses
       - Heuristic radar
       - Improved production
Aereal reconnaissance program : A simple program that allows us to requisition drone reconnaissance on suspected UFO sites.

6 VP
3 UP
4+1 EP

2 Alien Equipment Token, 1 Unit experience Token, 1 Alien alloy token

Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)

Africa
---> Egypt
---> South Africa
---> Nigeria

Asia
--->Australia
--->China
--->India
--->Japan

Europe
--->France
--->Germany
--->Russia
--->United Kingdom

North America
--->Canada
--->Mexico
--->United States

South America
--->Argentina
--->Brazil   X

Revision Phase

Turn 6

AABBCCDD

[Strongpoint]

6 VP
3 UP
4+1 EP

Isn't it
6+1 VP
3 UP
4EP
?

I don't remember us getting equipment tokens

2 Alien Equipment Token, 1 Alien Nav Computer token, 1 Unit experience Token, 1 Alien alloy token

Didn't we spend Alien Nav Computer on the last turn design?

[10ebbor10]

It's not an equipment token, it's the bonus from your base improvement.

Didn't we spend Alien Nav Computer on the last turn design?

Oh right. Let met fix that.

[Strongpoint]

So this design gave us no VP to have a better ability to counter multiple missions. This is a problem. Our typical setup of 2 Ravens + 3 skyrangers has many flaws if enemy goes for more than one mission.

I think we need a revision that tries to reduce cost of Ravens (at least to 1.5 VP) or revising Inter agency teams to make them a viable alternative to NOTSOFTER.

New use for EP can be useful, but I am afraid it won't do much to our ability to answer many missions

[Strongpoint]

Our current "ideal" setup is

2xRavens (4VP)
with 2xPhoenixes (1EP)
3xSkyrangers (2VP)
with 3xPhoenixes (1EP)
3xNOTSOFTERs (3UP)
with 3xXH-2s. (3EP)

I dislike it vs anything but one focused mission. TAV, that will be proposed, doesn't help much in case if they'll repeat their last turn strategy (or worse, go for 3 directions with mid-sized groups). I am not willing to gamble on them going for one thing this time.

Raven-b (alien alloy token, alien equipment token)
Raven-b is a modification of Raven aimed at reducing both weight and complexity of the aircraft. Large chunk of it's original electronics are replaced with less complex but no less effective systems derived from experience gained during TAV and Rockslide projects. It's airframe is thinner, benefiting from sturdy and lightweight materials that share many similarities of materials used in production of UFOs and while it requires some advanced materials, need for rarer Earth based materials is greatly reduced. Even fuel tanks of the Raven-b is smaller. This is achieved by developing new fuel with elerium additives, same explosive thing that gives deadly punch to enemy grenades can be used to improve fuel density. Lower weight allows usage of easier to produce and maintain engines that can provide same speed, maneuverability, range, and payload.
Tl;dr - use tokens to make Raven cheaper.

If we'll be able to get at least one additional Raven per turn, this will be a great revision with an immediate impact. Both technologies gained there are fully usable for the next generation fighter. Next turn we can go for either a new unit (unit experience token shouldn't la doing nothing) or EP expensive equipment for infantry like body armor or tank

I still think that using unit experience token to upgrade Inter Agency Cooperation team is a way to go (if we did that last turn, we would have easier time covering the globe while, most likely, still shooting down their small UFOs) but that idea seems extremely unpopular so I am not going to write a detailed offer of how to do it.