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Author Topic: Democramancy (IC)  (Read 5492 times)

AbstractTraitorHero

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2017, 12:50:23 am »

Another twitch. Ears moving erratically tail twitching and swaying as they adjusted their clothing. After a few minutes or so clearly preoccupied with something they seemingly finish with it and respond. An amused chuckle leaving their weathered body. Fangs showing in their small grin. A singular glove pulled off and set on the podium...Fured. Her hand was furred and had claws...though it was humanlike at least.

"Wellll...You are not entirely incorrect. But.

Giving a small almost purring sound from their throat their laugh coming out like a small wheeze. Tapping an ear with a furry finger tail wagging confidently.

"Removing Slavery entirely as you are proposing. Is a foolish effort. You can not undo hundreds of years of tradition with a single edict.If you wish to change slavery? Convince the nobility.The last thing we damn need is a revolt. Do not take that as a threat because it isn't. People do not want to give up or pay their slaves. I know nobles that would fight if such a thing were to pass at the moment. If you really wish to do this and remove such a Nobel institution. It would have to be slow. Steady. Gradual. Or else you would face dissent and revolt. Understood?"
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 03:24:11 am by AbstractTraitorHero »
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Rip Abigail South Death by Drop pod my avatar is now morbid.

micelus

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2017, 07:11:02 am »

Yorboi chuckles for a slight of a second, the political conversation has become a side of two spectrums. No thought in moderation.


Let's talk about the dramatic issue that arrived and our fellow entertaining and very progressive politician, "Lady Leviogale" expressed  a certain end to a spectrum, but only a limited point of view. Let's see slaves and serfs dominating labor killing off the free-man, goblins wanting to be citizens, and foreign governments having a certain hatred against our tariffs. Also a massive crisis of water demands if the humidity goes severely down

Let's start with slaves and serfs, while it is of course a sad and disappointing end in our society it is only necessitated by the demand of labor. We need people to maintain the crops and mine the ore, unskilled labor will always be in high demand. But this of course destroys the family structure because of slaves evicted from their households. You know the idea, indentured servitude. Let's refer it to as the Indentured Servitude Enactment. What does it entail? Well in a way slavery will completely abolished and replaced with a much more free-spirited method. People who sell their lives will instead sell their labor. The nobles and their contractors, will hire a written agreement between the hirers and the family for a initial or interval pay to the family, for a maximum limit of 20 years. Annual inspections can ensue at anytime to these nobles of their temporary property, and if they don't contain the written agreement than a fine of a certain sum will be enforced. The nobles can also retrospect with their own complain that if the indentured servant doesn't provide the required labor, than they will be charged if their is also witness proof, as well.

Remember people if we abolish slavery, than we will have a massive LABOR CRISIS, because their still a huge demand of unskilled labor and slavery and serfs are fulfilling it.

Now onto goblins issue, they want citizenship, huh? for their military and their services. Well let's make a compromise, the "Moderate Compromise of Human and Marrowsucker Tribe". They can be provided the necessary land and the required support wealth to construct hamlets and villages. Goblins can join the nation as citizens with their enacted rights, with a caveat. Goblins, preferably strong male adolescents, must spend at least 10 years in the military as a lower-class form of soldier, under the command of a human officer. If they provide the required service to the nation, and their deeds and their lives survived, they shall be clarified as formal citizens. Of course human prejudice will always exist against goblins, but this will lead to a more cosmopolitan nation. The goblin's children will still have to provide military service for citizenship, however. This is to make sure goblin primogeniture and nobility never happens.

Thirdly, onto foreign governments. Diplomatic movements must be made into the efforts of improving our fledging nation, but a idea comes to mind to the foreign nation's that detest our tariffs. Any nation that performs a formal diplomatic trade agreement will suffer from none of our native tariffs, to incorporate a wide-economic nation.

Final note, this is a note of droughts. I have personal experience of the severe consequences of drought and the effects they had of my desert kingdom with me accidentally tainting the flood-plains. The most concerning think besides people dying of dehydration and killing or crops, is mass riots could revolve if this type of things. Concluding question at the Arbiter, do we have any free part of the government's budget that can be spent on political actions? Such spending it on a dedicated labor force to solve our lack of aqueducts, or any other problem we have?

"I do not object to your ideas and I am broadly supportive of them, for now. That said, I must once again recommend action to be done to replace unskilled labour with constructs or undead."
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darkgamer

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2017, 10:41:01 am »



"I do not object to your ideas and I am broadly supportive of them, for now. That said, I must once again recommend action to be done to replace unskilled labour with constructs or undead."

"Do we have a spell that can easily create enough bodies and fuel those bodies constantly? I'm not against using undead but we can't right now and would take a while to fully research a spell that would allow it. We can focus on the undead when we need to but first we should focus on what we can do for our people right now."
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Roboson

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2017, 12:02:50 pm »

Arbiter, did we ever receive those old tax records? And can you tell us how much an average laborer earns a year?

An average peasant paid approximately 100 coins of silver annually  in taxes under the previous system.
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Glass

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2017, 12:06:41 pm »

Arbiter, did we ever receive those old tax records? And can you tell us how much an average laborer earns a year?

An average peasant paid approximately 100 coins of silver annually  in taxes under the previous system.
Ok, so 1650 silver coins is a typical yearly income? Very well.
However, that still doesn't answer the question that I had requested the tax records for. What percentages of the government's income came from which groups? What percentage of the population payed the top 50% of all taxes? What percentage payed the bottom 10%? That variety of information. We need it to fine-tune the tax codes effectively.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Roboson

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2017, 12:17:15 pm »

The tax code wasn't really set up to collect that sort of data. In the past it was a fairly even distribution, but it obviously varied on an annual basis. It is clear that nobles as a collective paid around 20% of all the taxes, land owners paid another 15%, Artisans and merchants another 15%, and peasants, serfs, and slaves composed the final 50%. The previous system taxed slaves, peasants, and serfs the same,
 and thus most of the taxes were paid by that working class. These amounts are estimates, they vary widely by years.
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Glass

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2017, 12:30:32 pm »

Erin leaned back, confused.
Well, now that doesn't make any sense. Unless all the slaves, peasants, and serfs combined are making more than double what every noble earns combined - which I heartily doubt - then, considering that nobles likely own more than 50% of the wealth in this country, I believe that there is likely some amount of tax evasion occurring. A significant amount, in fact.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Roboson

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2017, 01:38:00 pm »

The nobles compose a tiny minority of the population. Despite them being several dozen times more rich than the average person, there are thousands times more peasants than nobles. And under the previous system the nobles pretty much paid for the taxes of serfs and slaves, as all the slaves and serfs were only paid enough to cover their taxes. Effectively making it appear as though less of the burden fell on the lower population, but in reality, they were only breaking even.

That said, tax evasion is and was rampant. As further supported by the rapid exploitation of the new system.

This is why there was no taxation on slaves, because slaves were treated like serfs and peasants for tax purposes.
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Roboson

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2017, 01:34:58 pm »

Noticing a lull in the discussion.

Well perhaps this is enough discussion on these issues? If the discussion does not continue soon, we will move to voting.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2017, 01:57:00 pm »

Snapping out of his staring into space, Geralf once more enters into the discussion

"Well... I suppose you fo raise a point... As vile a practice it may be... We woulf have major pushback, I suppose... A slave tax that'f be more harsh on their pockets than just paying them a fair wage woulf be acceptable...

For the goblins, if they are willing to join our society, then let them in I say!

Anf I believe we've alreafy went over the foreign relations."
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Roboson

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2017, 02:26:59 pm »

Quote from: Proposals/Votes
Foreign Policy Plan
1)
2)
Goblin Plan
1)
2)
Slavery Solution
1)
2)
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2017, 02:39:06 pm »

Quote from: Proposals/Votes
Foreign Policy Plan
1)
2)
Goblin Plan
1 The Compromise of Aerowell and the Marrowsucker Tribe: Shadowclaw
2)
Slavery Solution
1) Indentured Servitude Enactment: Shadowclaw
2)
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NRDL

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2017, 07:00:50 pm »

Quote from: Proposals/Votes
Foreign Policy Plan
1)
2)
Goblin Plan
1 The Compromise of Aerowell and the Marrowsucker Tribe: Shadowclaw, Nix
2)
Slavery Solution
1) Indentured Servitude Enactment: Shadowclaw
2)
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GOD DAMN IT NRDL.
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AbstractTraitorHero

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2017, 08:13:48 pm »

Quote from: Proposals/Votes
Foreign Policy Plan
1)
2)
Goblin Plan
1 The Compromise of Aerowell and the Marrowsucker Tribe: Timidly support
2)
Slavery Solution
1) Indentured Servitude Enactment:Oppose!
2)

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Rip Abigail South Death by Drop pod my avatar is now morbid.

micelus

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Re: Democramancy (IC)
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2017, 09:24:42 am »

Quote from: Proposals/Votes
Foreign Policy Plan
1)
2)
Goblin Plan
1 The Compromise of Aerowell and the Marrowsucker Tribe: Shadowclaw, Nix, Lesouette
2)
Slavery Solution
1) Indentured Servitude Enactment: Shadowclaw, Lesouette
2)
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Do you hear that, Endra? NONE CAN STAND AGAINST THE POWER OF THE DENTAL, AHAHAHAHA!!!
You win Nakeen
Marduk is my waifu
Inanna is my husbando
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