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[RAM]

So spitters don't count as siege? I saw "artillery" and kind of made assumptions that were maybe not wise...

[10ebbor10]

Spitters are ranged, they're not even artillery. They can't fire that far.

Wut. That don't seem right. I mean, for fronts two and three, the relationship is pretty obvious.

You'll note that the calculator also seems to think that spitters are worth a ton of TC.

Edit: No wait. Something obviously went wrong with the calculator. I'll look at it later.

[10ebbor10]

On a side note, a comparative analysis of the first and third front. It's overly simplified, as it assumes that each unit only fights in 1 area, which is probably incorrect.

On our side, both fronts start with an equal amount of units.

First front :  54 Soldiers, 1200 Workers
Third front : 54 Soldiers, 1200 Workers

Artillery phase

First front loses 20 Workers     [Attacked by 1 Ballista]
Third front loses 20 Workers    [Attacked by 1 Ballista]

First front :  54 Soldiers, 1180 Workers
Third front : 54 Soldiers, 1180 Workers

Ranged Phase

FF :  49 workers died  [Attacked by 17 bowmen]
TF :  23 workers died  [Attacked by 8 bowmen]

First front :  54 Soldiers, 1,131 Workers
Third front : 54 Soldiers, 1,157 Workers

Charge

FF : 51 workers   [11 cavalry]
TF : 23 workers   [5 cavalry]

First front :  54 Soldiers, 1,080 Workers
Third front : 54 Soldiers, 1,134 Workers

Skirmish

FF : 29 workers [32 skirmishers]
TF : 12 workers [17 skirmishers]

First front :  54 Soldiers, 1,051 Workers
Third front : 54 Soldiers, 1,122 Workers

Melee

FF : 6 soldiers, 659 workers  [21 hoplites, 313 spearmen,2272 slaves]
TF : 3 soldiers, 336 worker [11 hoplites, 161 spearmen ,  1686 slaves]

First front :  48 Soldiers, 392 Workers
Third front : 51 Soldiers, 786 Workers

50:1 vs  102: 1
3.35: vs 7:1
0.46:1  vs 0.66 : 1

So, predict enemy forces for next time, assuming same reinforcement rate :

  29 skirmishers
  16 bowmen
  25 hoplites
  11 cavalry
  1 ballistae
  1 apprentices
  0 mages
  297 spearmen
  3,584 slaves

If we want to get the same ratio on front 1 as we have now on front 3 (because that gave us a victory), that means we need 2000 - 2550 workers when entering the melee phase. We can expect to loose about 150 in the earlier phases, meaning we need 2150 to 2700.

This is quite problematic, given that we can only reinforce 2400 manpower total.

I mean, just recovering to the same ratio as we had last time, would require 1250 Workers in the melee phase.

[Detoxicated]

0 Burster
2 "Thermal" Infrared Compound Lenses: Shadowclaw, RAM
0 Field Fortifications:
0 Jumping legs:
1 Battering Beetle: NUKE9.13
2 Gene bank: Basic wings: Crazyabe, Detoxicated

[10ebbor10]

0 Burster
3 "Thermal" Infrared Compound Lenses: Shadowclaw, RAM, 10ebbor10
0 Field Fortifications:
0 Jumping legs:
1 Battering Beetle: NUKE9.13
2 Gene bank: Basic wings: Crazyabe, Detoxicated

[NUKE9.13]

What y'all got against the Battering Beetle? It ought to count for considerably more than its weight in workers versus fortifications.

I mean, don't get me wrong, infrared vision/wings are nice, but we're up against the walls this turn. And it's not like we'll never be in a siege situation again, so it isn't exactly short-term thinking to work on siege this turn.

[10ebbor10]

In my case, I want something that's useful on the first front, because the situation there is more dire than it could seem in the first case.

Remember, if the enemy breaks through there, we die.

[Detoxicated]

If we can fly we can just enter their forts

[FallacyofUrist]

Yeah, once we capture another territory, birth queen asap.

The infrared lenses should let us attack during the night where the enemy is weakest, so let's do that.

0 Burster
4 "Thermal" Infrared Compound Lenses: Shadowclaw, RAM, 10ebbor10
0 Field Fortifications:
0 Jumping legs:
1 Battering Beetle: NUKE9.13
2 Gene bank: Basic wings: Crazyabe, Detoxicated

If we can fly we can just enter their forts

And getting basic wings will help us with the army at our doorstep?

[MonkeyMarkMario]

0 Burster
4 "Thermal" Infrared Compound Lenses: Shadowclaw, RAM, 10ebbor10, MonkeyMarkMario
0 Field Fortifications:
0 Jumping legs:
1 Battering Beetle: NUKE9.13
2 Gene bank: Basic wings: Crazyabe, Detoxicated

[Puppyguard]

0 Burster
4 "Thermal" Infrared Compound Lenses: Shadowclaw, RAM, 10ebbor10, MonkeyMarkMario
0 Field Fortifications:
0 Jumping legs:
2 Battering Beetle: NUKE9.13, Puppyguard
2 Gene bank: Basic wings: Crazyabe, Detoxicated

Battering beetle could smash through the siegers.
Since they wouldn't be able to shoot it through the wall, when they get through the gate we send the beetles to smash through their ranks.

[10ebbor10]

The battering beetle is explicitedly said to be bad in melee.

[NUKE9.13]

Well, worse than a regular Soldier drone. Not bad in absolute terms, but yeah, if all you want is combat ability, go for Soldiers over BBs.
I have this faint glimmer of hope that it might somehow count as a charger, but I think chargers need to be fast, which the BB is not.
Its primary purpose is to be a siege weapon, although it will not be useless in melee.

[RAM]

I could see it being of great benefit against spearmen. Not by itself, but a spear formation is very similar to a fortification, if you can make a "hole" in a formation's "walls" then it is greatly weakened. I don't know how good the combat system is at accounting for this. Perhaps a formation-breaker would lower the defensive ability of a certain number of soldiers by a certain amount, but only if they had the requisite number of formation-based soldiers? I DO find breakers to be very tempting...

Flight, I imagine, would give us extremely mobile chargers. Or something similar to that. While arrows would be dangerous to them, they would also be dangerous to archers, who typically rely upon infantry walls to keep people from reaching them. We lack range and flight would effectively give use the sort of penetrative power that ranged attacks offer. I would expect it to have broad-reaching value... We do have to be worried about magic though. We certainly don;t want infrared vision to be universally active, because a single fireball could cause a proper mess...

If we designed Breakers, could we get shielded head technology as a freebie?

[NUKE9.13]

If we designed Breakers Battering Beetles, could we get shielded head technology as a freebie?

I think that we'd get it in our gene bank. Which would allow us to add it to future designs for free (I think? I dunno)

Your combat scenario makes sense. I don't know if the system is built to model that, though. It certainly doesn't mention the existence of formation bonuses (or the corresponding maluses) in the core thread OP. I dunno, you could ask Iituem if that sort of thing will be accounted for.