Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Madman198237]

We risk getting outflanked. Not to mention we don't gain much now by holding back. If we're aggressive in pushing at Kasgyrite forces, we might be able to get the upper hand. If that large vessel only has a couple of Skyskiffs there to guard it, we might very well be able to destroy the thing with our greater maneuverability.

Right now, we're on the back foot, and throwing those Skyskiffs back there to mess with Kasgyre while applying pressure to TC with our other ships is probably the best way to do it. If we get an antiair-capable PLACE, or just complete the project already, we'll need TC cleared so we can get heavily-armed marines to the central Spires. That or we need to cross the Everstorm, which is likely going to be an issue.

[NUKE9.13]

throwing those Skyskiffs back there to mess with Kasgyre

The fuck does this even mean? Do you think Kasgyr is going to care about a pair of skiffs flying around doing absolutely nothing? They know we can't risk a transport to drop marines in their demispires. They can ignore them with complete impunity.

As for the rest of your points, hey, I already changed my mind on what to do in the left lane; I'm in favour of moving on TC.

[Nirur Torir]

Given that word-of-GM is that we're lucky whenever we run into them, I'd much prefer to send 5 to the Haze Maze, and retreat The Unfinished's skiffs to our middle spire.

[Madman198237]

The point of sending our skiffs out there is to harass Kasgyre. Force them to dedicate several Skyskiffs to hunting down ours...which can be running away next turn.

They can't afford us hanging around in their back lines like that, and plus we want to get a chance at seeing if they've taken all their demispires, perhaps even seeing how far they've advanced through them (Or, at least, seeing if they've finished capturing them. I suspect that civilian traffic and the infrastructure required to support it is fairly hard to miss).

[milo christiansen]

I vote we send those two skiffs to harass Kasgyre, and pull the others home to hold the line.

It is kinda dumb not to try giving our local spire *something* in the way if weapons, but I can see that has no support.

[Jilladilla]

Right. That went badly.... But at least AGILE is perfectly usable for our purposes at the moment.

We'll likely want to invest an actual design into it in the future, but for now it works.

Either way, what we should do is set up a defensive line at Haze Maze, Kasgyr has their Corvette and 3 skiffs at TC ready to attack there, but if we attack them they can reinforce that with their 2 new skiffs, and a 5 skiffs vs 5 skiffs+corvette likely wouldn't go in our favor.

As for whether to gather our fleet, or send the 2 at the Unfinished on a raiding expedition... Well I'm leaning towards raiding. Kasgyr knows they're there, and likely won't send anything that isn't overwhelming forces at them, and we can always have them run after they 'go loud'.
Hopefully, they'll intercept a transport. Even if they don't, they'll force Kasgyr to route forces away from their Corvette (as we've proven how a 2v2 goes).

[NUKE9.13]

Either way, what we should do is set up a defensive line at Haze Maze, Kasgyr has their Corvette and 3 skiffs at TC ready to attack there, but if we attack them they can reinforce that with their 2 new skiffs, and a 5 skiffs vs 5 skiffs+corvette likely wouldn't go in our favor.

Hmm. Yeah, actually. Holding at the Haze Maze does seem better.

As for whether to gather our fleet, or send the 2 at the Unfinished on a raiding expedition... Well I'm leaning towards raiding. Kasgyr knows they're there, and likely won't send anything that isn't overwhelming forces at them, and we can always have them run after they 'go loud'.
Hopefully, they'll intercept a transport. Even if they don't, they'll force Kasgyr to route forces away from their Corvette (as we've proven how a 2v2 goes).

:/
Fine. Everyone seems to think Kasgyr is gonna freak out when they hear that two skiffs are floating around their demispires. Send them on their raid. Mark my words, it won't do jack except deprive our defences of two extra skiffs.

It is kinda dumb not to try giving our local spire *something* in the way if weapons, but I can see that has no support.

It would be nice if we could teleport supplies and reinforcements to our local spires. Unfortunately, teleportation has not yet been developed, so we must make do with transports. Transports which keep getting shot down. We absolutely cannot send a transport to the Haze Maze until we either have a big enough force there to handily beat any enemy incursion, or we have driven the enemy back past the Three Captains, such that they cannot simply hop over to HM and sink our precious, precious transport.
We could send a transport to Miner's Folly or the Verdant Vista. I'd rather keep it at home, however, since we can't exactly afford a well-armed group of marines, and I really don't want to send it out without at least three skiffs guarding it (and not sending it where Kasgyr's corvette can reach).

[Jilladilla]

:/
Fine. Everyone seems to think Kasgyr is gonna freak out when they hear that two skiffs are floating around their demispires. Send them on their raid. Mark my words, it won't do jack except deprive our defences of two extra skiffs.

Also a fair point. The thing is, we will have to wait until next turn before they become relevant to any plan that isn't maintaining overwatch over the Unfinished. So basically, it comes down to: Try to attempt an intercept of a reinforcement wave? Or prepare for heavy casualties this turn and move them in a position where they can reinforce the line?
(I wasn't expecting them to freak out, just force them to actually invest in clearing them out, as the 2 skiff auto-production wouldn't be enough on its own unless they saved up for a turn. I'm not dead set on it, merely leaning in that direction. But perhaps we should play it safe...)

[Madman198237]

NUKE, what would *you* have to do if you realized that, suddenly, the enemy has the capability to access your home territory, conceivably sneaking in a transport as well?

And anyway, that's EXACTLY where we want those two anyway---next turn we push them to group up with our forces at TC, outflanking any remaining enemies (For whatever that's worth).


I worry though, NUKE. I want to keep up the pressure. We can't survive if we don't know what's going on. We have to make sure they don't try to take us out of TC, which will likely become our largest advantage if we can hold it. Our new tactics, combined with our generally better ships, should allow us to chip away at their forces quite effectively. We won't be killing them all, that's true, but we won't face too many losses unless their ship is DRAMATICALLY better than anything could have predicted.

[10ebbor10]

Generally better ships?

The enemy a big ship, we still have to get started.

[NUKE9.13]

NUKE, what would *you* have to do if you realized that, suddenly, the enemy has the capability to access your home territory, conceivably sneaking in a transport as well?

...
They already realise that, because, in case you forgot, they already did that to us.

And anyway, that's EXACTLY where we want those two anyway---next turn we push them to group up with our forces at TC, outflanking any remaining enemies (For whatever that's worth).

Outflanking TC is the best argument I've seen for sending skiffs into their demis. I worry, though, about the phrase "Any remaining enemies"

I worry though, NUKE. I want to keep up the pressure. We can't survive if we don't know what's going on. We have to make sure they don't try to take us out of TC, which will likely become our largest advantage if we can hold it. Our new tactics, combined with our generally better ships, should allow us to chip away at their forces quite effectively. We won't be killing them all, that's true, but we won't face too many losses unless their ship is DRAMATICALLY better than anything could have predicted.

Oh, you think any amount of skiffs stand a ghost of a chance versus a real ship.
Their ship has at least five guns facing in one direction*. A single (on target) volley will destroy a skiff. Meanwhile, a skiff needs to chip away slowly at their considerably stronger shroud, and even if a shot gets through, a single hit to the hull may not be enough to take it down.
No, my hope is not that our five skiffs will be able to take down their warship, even if it had no escort whatsoever. My hope is that the skiffs could sink their transports, in an attempt to close the gap between us in terms of resources lost, and if we're lucky prevent them from landing (all of) their marines.
Their warship + 5 skiffs is just such a lopsided fight that we'd likely suffer heavy losses, without ever getting the chance to touch their hypothetical transport. Warship + 3 skiffs is not much better, but I'll take any advantage I can get.

The risk of them landing marines at the Three Captains is real, but I just don't think we have any way of preventing that from happening, no matter what we do.

[Madman198237]

 That's fairly defeatist.

First assumption: There is a new ship. This is not ensured, by my math. There could, theoretically, just be a lot of Skyskiffs. <----Not terribly likely, or so it seems. Perhaps new cannon type instead
Second assumption: A larger vessel can keep up with Skyskiffs enough to put a broadside on target. You know why broadsides went out of fashion, correct? You can't just turn a massive armored warship fast enough to track anything smaller than yourself.. This game amplifies that because the crystals crack on stressful maneuvers. But ours are better.
Third assumption: We'll be in an all-out battle IMMEDIATELY, with one side getting immediately destroyed. Draignean, before this game started, said that he was looking for a more persistent ship system, wherein vessels are usually not just evaporated into clouds of splinters every battle and someone "wins". The battle will take a couple of turns, and we'll suddenly have two superior skyskiffs arriving with/in front of THEIR two reinforcements.

Oh, shoot, just realized:
NUKE, we have to engage them this turn because otherwise we learn NOTHING about their vessel's capability, and we become handicapped in attempting to design something to fight it.
Does it rely on high-speed hit-and-run tactics before retreating to fill the water in its Teakettles? Does it tank shots like nobody's business and deal out death with massive batteries of guns, while moving as slow as can be? What tactics does it use?

We HAVE to find these answers out, then we roll out a counter ship.

[NUKE9.13]

NUKE, we have to engage them this turn because otherwise we learn NOTHING about their vessel's capability, and we become handicapped in attempting to design something to fight it.
Does it rely on high-speed hit-and-run tactics before retreating to fill the water in its Teakettles? Does it tank shots like nobody's business and deal out death with massive batteries of guns, while moving as slow as can be? What tactics does it use?

We HAVE to find these answers out, then we roll out a counter ship.

We discussed this in the Discord. If only to reach consensus, I have agreed to back Madman's plan of attack TC and send U skiffs to their central demispire.

[Jilladilla]

Hmm..... I guess Madman did raise a point in Discord... And the potential 4 skiff backup does cover up my #1 issue with it.....

I'm still very much on the fence, though. But I'll lean towards this side, for now. Consider it having my tentative agreement....
At the same time... Does anyone think Kasgyr will expect a sudden charge?

[Madman198237]

The two Skyskiffs at Wreth proceed past Haze Maze, where the three Skyskiffs present join up with them, and move to Three Captains to attack the enemy. One skiff will remain on High Vigil until combat starts, the others will be prepared to use the new AGILE system to evade fire.

The two Skyskiffs at The Unfinished will proceed to Kasgyre's central demispire, both using AGILE tactics if necessary, but generally keeping out of sight, near the mist, as much as possible and safe.

Recon in Force: (1) Madman