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Author Topic: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr  (Read 152064 times)

Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #690 on: August 09, 2017, 10:57:45 am »

Rushed Vanguard is winning by a slim margin, so I'll run with that in a bit unless something changes in the near future.
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #691 on: August 09, 2017, 10:58:01 am »

So as to get things moving:

Quote from: Designs+Projects
Projects
2 normal and 1 rush dice; Vanguard Cannon, [3] Shadowclaw, Jerick, Kashyyk
Banking:
Bank 2 Dice: []
Bank 3 Dice: [3] Jerick,  Shadowclaw, Kashyyk
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #692 on: August 09, 2017, 12:19:57 pm »

Vanguard Cannon
Progress: 9/18 (1,1, Rush: 6)

Prototype
[Efficacy: 6-1 Cost: 1 Bugs: 6-]  (I'm not sure your dice are quite familiar with meaning of the word 'average')

The prototype Vanguard Cannon thrills and excites the brass. It's dangerous in operation, glorious in appearance, and has only a single minor glitch in operation. Her larger issue is the price tag, which is enough to make the bean counters who accompany the high brass break into a cold sweat.

The actual mechanism for the water pumping system ends up being crystal and spring based, and locked into a heavy assembly to the side of the gun where the water canisters are mounted. Each canister of water weighs about ten pounds when dry, closer to sixty when full, and has enough water in it to advance the cylinder three times assuming no recycling. The water recycling efficiency of the cooling system is nearly perfect when cold, but drops as the weapon heats up and characteristic springlocked nipples on the return pipes vent excessive pressure.

Which brings us to the minor issue. The nipples on the barrel are essential to keep it from exploding under extended stress, but the springs are small and difficult to make properly, and will regularly jam in the open positions, which causes the Vanguard to begin losing water much more rapidly. With the dual canister configuration, the effect on overall fire rate is small, approximately 20%, but it's an issue.

Assuming the nipples work perfectly (which doesn't happen) she reaches the theoretical maximum fire rate of one shot every two seconds, though beyond that point the issue once again becomes melting the copper inside the barrel. With water replacement crews, she can theoretically keep the enhanced that rate of fire up indefinitely, though it's not recommended due to the relatively untested pump system.

Of course, then there is the price tag... The pump system, though effective, is both difficult and expensive to make, and this is not mentioning the mechanics of the advancement system, the complexities of the heat releasing nipples, or the additional valve-work that goes into exchanging cylinders. Whereas the basic LAC is basically a massive chunk of copper with passive-flow manifolds strapped on, the Vanguard is a complex and mult-layer machine. By itself it's costly, but the current light mounts were never meant to deal with its vastly increased weight and power consumption. Engineers think they might be able to come up with a revision plan to mount it into a specially refitted small mount, but it would fit much more ably onto a new, larger class of mounts.

Projected Cost: 6 Ore, 3 Crystal | Requires a Medium Mount



Spire Kasgyre's production stands at,
13/y Crystal, 18/65 Banked
17/y Ore, 13/85 banked
19/y Wood, 30/95 banked
10/y Silk, 28/50 banked

It is now the revision phase. You have 3 dice left to spend.


Spoiler: Projects (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Ships (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Goods Stockpile (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Infantry (click to show/hide)



Current Technology

Spoiler: Tech (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Tactics (click to show/hide)

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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #693 on: August 09, 2017, 12:52:44 pm »

Question; has any of our design prototypes ever had a efficacy of 3 or lower? I think all our prototypes have been 4+. It seems quite ridiculous when you factor in average, yeah we've been pretty lucky

Edit: Also copper is seeming to wane on its effectiveness with its thermal conductivity, maybe something like aluminum, titanium, or chromium steel; will be more potent to not being burned and melted up against larger weapons

Also if I'm getting this correctly, a 20% decrease to our RPM, means we just fire a shot every 2.4 seconds?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:55:54 pm by Shadowclaw777 »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #694 on: August 09, 2017, 12:59:25 pm »

I'm quite pleased with that.

I think we can just deal with the larger size. We can revise the Viper to have larger mounts, and even if that halves the number of cannons on the thing, it'll still increase our damage output from cold by 50%.

The main issue I think is the cost, which can be dealt with by [Insert Technical Jargon] to ease manufacturing concerns.

As this thing is my baby, I'm going to vote for a revision to cheapen the Vanguard. I'm guessing we can use stamps or casting or something. I dunno, I'm not really an engineer.

Quote from: Revisions
Cheapen the Vanguard : [1] Kashyyk
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NAV

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #695 on: August 09, 2017, 01:11:42 pm »

Could we implement looting the dead as a tactic revision?

Also, we should have a disproportionate amount of surviving officers per squad due to their armour and aethersilk vests, but I don't really see that mentioned or accounted anywhere.
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #696 on: August 09, 2017, 01:18:39 pm »

Could we implement looting the dead as a tactic revision?

Also, we should have a disproportionate amount of surviving officers per squad due to their armour and aethersilk vests, but I don't really see that mentioned or accounted anywhere.

Your tactics have a much smaller chance to be disrupted due to important people getting shot. Basically, even if you take crippling losses, you're still likely to have enough people with good heads and leadership skills to keep a plan going.

I'm still waffling over looting the dead. On the one hand: Neat and makes sense. On the other hand: so much accounting.
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #697 on: August 09, 2017, 01:29:48 pm »

On a related note, under the current system I assume we lose any equipment carried by a dead marine as well, even if we successfully advance?
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #698 on: August 09, 2017, 01:35:54 pm »

So each shot from the vanguard is just as powerful as a normal cannon shot? I'm actually fine with the way it turned out there. The main reason I was opposed was because I was under the impression that the design intentionally halved the cannon damage.



I totally understand if you don't want to do looting on account of the work involved. This arms race is already far more in depth than most. Maybe a simplified system? Something like an ~20% chance to recover squad equipment when a squad is killed, and you just keep track of the entire squads equipment instead of breaking it down?
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #699 on: August 09, 2017, 01:41:02 pm »

So each shot from the vanguard is just as powerful as a normal cannon shot? I'm actually fine with the way it turned out there. The main reason I was opposed was because I was under the impression that the design intentionally halved the cannon damage.

That was the original design, but I changed it due to social pressure good recommendation.

Anyway, as I understand it, people wanted to suggest tactics to develop this turn. Once those get submitted I'll see about voting for some of them.
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #700 on: August 09, 2017, 02:06:56 pm »

Tactic: Air: Reserve Forces

Our skiffs are useless as escort vessels, being blown out of the air before they can really matter. The only time we have seen our skiffs score kills/hits is during an ambush.
Under this tactic, designated ships hang back outside of the main convoy. When the enemy is engaged, they rush forward to strike enemy craft unexpectedly from the flanks, disrupting enemy formations and scoring hits/kills by virtue of taking the enemy by suprise.
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Jerick

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #701 on: August 09, 2017, 02:42:46 pm »

Infantry stealth and ambush tactics
This is a tactic focused on stealth and indirect combat this inculdes finding ways to disrupt the enemy supplies, contaminating their water and finding ways to deploy traps or other methods to kill the enemy indirectly. Marines are trained to move stealthily in groups. Marines stealthily whittle down the enemy numbers by picking off isolated groups with quiet weapons or coordinated ambushes on larger groups of enemies. Marine forces are to be encouraged in this doctrine to take weapons and equipment off fallen enemies to supplement their own supplies. This is a guerilla tactic intent on causing attrition.

Viper production pattern (I'd like to abandon skiffs and go all in on Vipers. Our skiffs are doing nothing)
Create a production pattern for the Vipers so we can change our production line off of skiffs an onto making Vipers.

Adaptive shroud management
The re-syncing tools actually give us considerable insight into what is going on inside our core crystals. This revision builds on that knowledge and uses modified re-syncing tools to give allow an engineer to effect the shroud that the core produces. Allow the engineer to strengthen and focus the shroud and maybe have some influence over it's shape. Such an advance could open the door to some fantastic technologies.
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #702 on: August 09, 2017, 02:51:33 pm »

Adaptive shroud management
The re-syncing tools actually give us considerable insight into what is going on inside our core crystals. This revision builds on that knowledge and uses modified re-syncing tools to give allow an engineer to effect the shroud that the core produces. Allow the engineer to strengthen and focus the shroud and maybe have some influence over it's shape. Such an advance could open the door to some fantastic technologies.

This is not revision tier.
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #703 on: August 09, 2017, 02:55:14 pm »

Tactic: Air: Reserve Forces

Our skiffs are useless as escort vessels, being blown out of the air before they can really matter. The only time we have seen our skiffs score kills/hits is during an ambush.
Under this tactic, designated ships hang back outside of the main convoy. When the enemy is engaged, they rush forward to strike enemy craft unexpectedly from the flanks, disrupting enemy formations and scoring hits/kills by virtue of taking the enemy by suprise.

Good idea but we need communications first for it to be properly effective.

Quote from: Vanguard Pump Manufacturing Project
The Pumping system of the Vanguard is quite reasonably difficult to produce, and as such we have decided to review the system to see if there are sections that can be simplified for manufacture without affecting the effectiveness of the weapon. In addition, we have invested in new and specialized tools to make the production of more complex parts of the Vanguard easier for the workers.

That's just so we have some Fluff for the cheaper Vanguard. Also, I can't remember if the Vanguard is multibarrel or not, or if it has a Water Sheath, so here we go.

Quote from: Cannon Water Sheath
The mounted piping on the LAC was an excellent start, but having the entire barrel surrounded in one pipe that is filled with water will be Signficantly more effective, and making that the standard for our cannons should vastly increase the general fire rate of our ship borne weaponry.

And that Medium Mount.

Quote from: Medium Ship Weaponry Mount
Building on our previous developments in new weaponry mounting, this larger model should operate much more smoothly than the last model while having plenty of support for the new Vanguard.
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #704 on: August 09, 2017, 03:03:34 pm »

Let's add some vote boxes; anyways question @Draignean, could we replace 2 small slots for a medium slot, or would that require a revision?.

Expanded Weapon Slots; Skyskiffs: By the effort of expanding and construction a larger weapon bay for our skyskiffs, it will have the ability to mount larger weapons up to the medium-class, of course this will have an affect on maneuverability and acceleration as the larger space for a smaller for a vessel will have exponentially larger factor in carrying a large weapon so advanced weight reducing harnesses and straps are added to have a less of significant affect of the speed drain by a larger gun.

Quote from: Vote Revisions
Infantry Stealth+Ambush Tactics
Viper Production Pattern: Replace Skyskiff PL
Air Reserve Forces
Vanguard Pump Manufacturing Project: [1] Shadowclaw
Cannon Water Sheath: [1] Shadowclaw
Medium Ship Weaponry Mount
Expanded Weapon Slots; Skyskiffs: [1] Shadowclaw
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