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[Tiruin]

Also I've had a better clarification -_- thanks wub.
*BAP* to you Lenglon D:<

You're more epic than otherwise :I
This ONE ability I have would've let you use MORE THAN TWO (since 1+1 = 2 abilities but same person), but I've nothing TO use. NOW, you are UNRESTRICTED WHATSOEVER.

Also I've no idea if the ability requirements in Clowcards specify you, but that was also nudging my reasoning since you can, inevitably, name each other.
Forever.

I:
Grumpying at me. Hmph.
So mean. :I

[Lenglon]

Tea - before Tir did this and while I was calm I had a pretty firm town read of her emotionally, and a null read of her mentally. right now despite my rage I still feel that she's probably town but her action logic demands her be either survivor or SK centralizing power in herself. I can confirm she is not mafia however.

Assuming she is town, and probably even if she is survivor since town is currently winning, it would be a very good idea to give her your vote. having two votes available at a minimum is a massive force multiplier for the way that our role works, and every vote after that is notceably helpful and is safer in general in the LYLO-breaker's hands than the original owners.

Tir - the reason we hadn't made our stolen votes permanant was to keep the people whos votes had been taken as active participants in the daygame. As you can see, we have no actual inspection mechanics, so we need people to be invested in their day play in order to find scum.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies
...
Checking with web about how the change in things works. the action limiting mechanic you're referencing was mine originally, so the effects of being fused without that in place weren't something I had checked. If what you're saying is correct, then this might be a good thing to have happened.

Tea - I think you should give Tir your vote.

[Lenglon]

Tiruin - the foam finger did NOT transfer by the way, and we still have the thing TolyK sent us, you don't have it.

[Tiruin]

Err, Lenglon, while I've typed a lot consistently in my posts back there of 'sure-town', and yea kudos for your behavior in the past, what keeps niggling on my side was Shakerag's ONLY MENTION of miller-SK.
That one post seeded doubt in me and which is what prompted me to [other than 2-in-1] investigate you N1. Alongside that, is the ONLY REASON (alongside Shakey's lacking explanation of doing that given what I'm reading here...) why I decided you're the next best swap-target. Because you're trustable.

I still feel that she's probably town but her action logic demands her be either survivor or SK centralizing power in herself.

Or...I'm Town, and I targeted the person that's probably an SK or non-town who plays very well.
I don't really see that much power in this current role because it has no set phase in actions, and what actions that are present are...err.

Delicately worded.
Which makes me even more @_@ of you...r alignment.
But the good mews is that you can be investigated now. :3

And yes, your role lacks any inspection mechanics grumblegrumble but I am very wary of you because of these some wordings I'm reading.
Either way, ya ain't Mafia and that's what matters. \o/ {The wariness is because I can't decide if you're town or not :I}

Checking with web about how the change in things works. the action limiting mechanic you're referencing was mine originally, so the effects of being fused without that in place weren't something I had checked. If what you're saying is correct, then this might be a good thing to have happened.

Indeed!

Tiruin - the foam finger did NOT transfer by the way, and we still have the thing TolyK sent us, you don't have it.

Wot.
I had it--it just wasn't in my initial roster but web did boop me with it.
Maybe he forgot, since it's in a reply chain. I'ma boop him, since *I* don't have it.

[Lenglon]

Tir - looked it over, and yeah, sorry, hell no. you missed little details of both how our role works and how your role works. this was still very much a bad thing. the critical differences though I can't talk to you about because making them public will just make things worse! you are missing major aspects of how certain abilities combine and interact.

[Tiruin]

>_>
OR, I'm missing aspects in public because I want to protect you.
...Meaning: Yes I know the specifics and I do know those exacts. But I do know that you can target each other--I asked Web. That's all I will say on that matter.
:I

I can be clever too! <_<

[Lenglon]

-.-
So long as you understand why I'm still not happy with you, and you understand that you still have hurt the town with your action, then fine. not going into details.

[Tiruin]

"Hurt the town" >_>
Press this further and I'll reveal this one bit that I found incriminating in your role that really doesn't belong in a town actionset.
Which is however complimented because of the OTHER wordings that makes me not see you as anti-town or see you as Town. <_<
But :I
"hurt the town" I:
You and SHakerag can really just pick one of the many abilities and shoot people with them.

ANd...yeah I get the unhappiness because this power of roleswaps can be used to counter-alignment check, but please understand from MY perspective you were also one of those who I'd in the least like to check on SINCE I couldn't investigate you back then <_<
And/or it boosts you anyway.

[Lenglon]

Tir, when I said that you're wrong and it doesn't boost us.
It was because you're wrong and it doesn't boost us.

and when I said I CANT EXPLAIN WHY YOU'RE WRONG IN PUBLIC.
it's because I CANT EXPLAIN WHY YOU'RE WRONG IN PUBLIC.

and finally, when I said that what you did was harmful.
it's because it was harmful.
Here, let me explain what Tir is being all cagey about because she seems to think she can just use it to threaten us and dance around the subject of how she did some patently anti-town stuff just now:

When we swapped, she didn't receive the miller auto, and she did get an anti-inspection mechanic.
That's because the miller auto has a caveat to it saying it can't be copied, transferred, removed, spoofed, or swapped. I'm fairly certain this was assigned to Shake by Web specifically to mess with him. Because he's Shakerag, and because there's a number of role-transfer abilities in play this game.
The anti-inspection thing is co-assigned to a defensive mechanic of the role, in fact the ONLY defensive mechanic he had before I fused with Shakerag. It has been active literally since game start. If he hadn't claimed miller, then inspections might have been wasted upon us, even possibly inspections from the same person more than once. Again, it's classic web messing with Shake, and if he had wanted to just keep it active the entire game and never claim miller, he could and would have.

From Tir's perspective, since she doesn't see our alignment directly, can't see the miller auto, and does see an anti-inspection ability, we look almost exactly like an SK.
now here's the other thing:

Tir - did Shakerag have any killing abilities? at all?

The answer to the above question, which Tir will confirm for anyone who cares to read this shortly, is No. He did not.
As I said, we're town.
Tir - Have you done the research necessary to see where you messed up and caused the harm yet? bear in mind the passive effects of being two players and how it interacts with our old role, and be aware of the partial truths of the role you claimed for us that might as well have been a full-blown-fakeclaim considering how prolific the inaccuracies are within it. also notice the specific wording of the ability that was limiting us. especially word number 9 in sentence 1.

This was not okay Tir.

[Tiruin]

Lenglon: I dislike being blamed. I wrote a big post until I got what you meant and I just have to say these--you could've mentioned the miller bit and tha'd make everything better in the first place. Because it compromises nothing other than my curiosity because it is part of the role. [Role = what we start the game out with or what is at present our roles; not anything added to it]

But this bit is what I want to highlight not helping at all:

Here, let me explain what Tir is being all cagey about because she seems to think she can just use it to threaten us and dance around the subject of how she did some patently anti-town stuff just now

I hate when people assume my intent and then word it in their own prejudice.
Y'know instead of talking with me.

If you'd like for me to admit I messed up: SURE I MESSED UP.
Would you like me to admit that it'd be better off used on scum? SURE IT WOULD
But I never knew ANY of this beforehand.

Maybe put that in your perspective too please >_>
Because I'm being attacked with NO acknowledgement on you and your OWN role that you have right there. What you can do with it too [I mean you can even perma-block me if you believe me to be otherwise non-town. -_- Like seriously. You know everything I have; that's part of the boost there. You know your role. You know the name. You know all of it that exists within it.
And I keep asking to read between the lines because I do know where your limits are. I'm saying otherwise in public.]

Tir - did Shakerag have any killing abilities? at all?

An SK's kill is a factional kill. Just like the Mafiakill MODIFIER is always a present thing--it however does not constitute the Mafia kill. It takes the place of such a kill.
Strangely the rule change is still in play so it's a free action. <_<

[Lenglon]

...
WEB:

An SK's kill is a factional kill. Just like the Mafiakill MODIFIER is always a present thing--it however does not constitute the Mafia kill. It takes the place of such a kill.
Strangely the rule change is still in play so it's a free action. <_<

is this true? A SK's kill is a factionkill like the mafiakill, and it has it by default unless specifically listed otherwise?
Tir:
uou tried to warn me off pushing on you over this action, saying you'd reveal scummy stuff about me if I didn't. That is a threat, being used to try to make me drop what you did. Its not about your intent, its about your act.

but, I admit, this isn't getting us anywhere.

so... at least for now... I'll drop it. at the very least until I cool off. I don't really trust my own judgement right now (been up for over 24 hours).

[Lenglon]

actually, pah, might as well say this now.
Sorry for the blame and aggression Tir.

[Tiruin]

actually, pah, might as well say this now.
Sorry for the blame and aggression Tir.

I typed up a long post, and this one thing made me Thanks...
...Yeah you covered it well.

...
WEB:

An SK's kill is a factional kill. Just like the Mafiakill MODIFIER is always a present thing--it however does not constitute the Mafia kill. It takes the place of such a kill.
Strangely the rule change is still in play so it's a free action. <_<

is this true? A SK's kill is a factionkill like the mafiakill, and it has it by default unless specifically listed otherwise?

It's what I assumed anyway since in all the games thus far; every SK had a factional kill ._. even if it wasn't explicitly in the ability list.

Tir:
uou tried to warn me off pushing on you over this action, saying you'd reveal scummy stuff about me if I didn't. That is a threat, being used to try to make me drop what you did. Its not about your intent, its about your act.

...Well how would you react when you read that one auto and had the background of someone with miller-SK?
With my only feeling otherwise being 'they didn't steal votes .-.; or use that one ability that'd be a LYLO breaker' [and more otherthings]
>_>
Also...I didn't see it moreso as a threat; I saw it more a threat to us [town]. If I had revealed the SK-y bits, it'd attract attention that I -cannot- protect against. Because...y'know, you have my protects.
So yeah <_<

;~; the sorry makesme cry. thanks

[TheDarkStar]

...first off, I'm going to vote Lenglon-Shakerag because being a SK-miller with a miller ability that doesn't get moved with a role swap seems just a bit too convenient. Especially if the role's main mechanics involve massive LYLO-breaking (well, at least that's what you two have claimed). As far as I can tell, you're like a watcher but you wait for enough players to die rather than for a certain day, and then you mass-kill people or do whatever it is that lets you win vs 3 other people. I can't think of any reasonable reason that any set of powers like that is town. In addition, your response feels weird, especially this post that feels like a major over-reaction. I mean yeah, you lost a nice role, but it still ended up with someone who you ...seem to think is town? and it's understandable that you would be really annoyed, but something about your response feels like you're frustrated scum.

I'll post more later once I've actually had sleep.

Tiruin: I'd like to see at least a partial role-claim for your new role. Why were Shakerag-Lenglon so confident about their prospects of winning against multiple other people? When you say that certain powers seem be from Shakerag originally, what do you mean? Why do you think it's suspicious?

[TolyK]

Lengrag: you know you can discuss this with Tiruin privately, right? Well, semi-privately, with Jack and me, but at least we seem to be more trustworthy than others.

@Shakerag's q: I'll write it up once I get out of bed. Tiruin caused a bit of a mess though and I wanna try to understand it... -.-